John Matthews

10 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

So the bad 1080p moire on the A6600 isn't coming from "the moire is present the moment the light is collected on the sensor" (which would show up in stills mode), it's being caused by the way data from the photosites is being collected, sub-sampled and processed. I suspect the image data used for 1080p video on the A6600 is being line/pixel skipped on sensor or as it's read out from the sensor and then de-bayered. The GX85 and G95 1080p is probably pixel-binned on-sensor, so it's better but has some moire, whereas the GH5 generates 1080p by reading the data and de-bayering it at high resolution then resamples it (using super-sampling) down to 1080p.

I've never seen it on the GH5 and GH6, but it'll happen for sure. I even posted it happening on the G9ii which probably uses the same methods in 5.7K.

My understanding of the GX85/G95/GX850 is that don't pixel bin 1080p; rather they average pixels together to make a 1080p image- the results are usually better than pixel binning, but they also have it. With those cameras (especially in 50fps/60fps), the camera is smart enough to recognize it and eliminate the magenta colors that are associated with moiré, making it far less noticeable but still present.

Also, on the DpReview charts, the only camera that I've seen that doesn't do it (on their charts/frequencies) is the OG Sony A7s.

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

The older Sony APS-C cameras like the A6500/A6600 are/were terrible for moire in 1080p - this is a DPreview 'video still' test chart comparison of GH5, GX85, G95 and A6600 at 1080p

I'm fairly certain all these cameras will have moiré patterns at some point whether it be 1080p, 4k, or 6k. The only difference is how visible it becomes and if you can recognize it on playback. The worst of patterns can also be controlled by understanding the frequencies with each lens and the fabrics and buildings causing them. This is a huge topic and merits considerable discussion. I still believe AI should/must "correct" it automatically. Many would pay for that.

18 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I remember it as ‘small sensor cameras full stop’ which was everything sub 4/3rds.

But could be wrong!

59 minutes ago, kye said:

Wasn't that the fixed-lens compact camera market?

That was my recollection.  Maybe I'm mis-remembering it though.  Let's hope not!!

Doesn't anyone think there's a market for FF point and shoots? FF sensors are now cheaper than their M43 counterparts. It would make sense to make a 35-50mm f2 prime with a decent small and light body. I could totally see OMDS making this and it would sell if they get the marketing right... which they won't. Panasonic also could do it. The RX1 would have been a hit if it were cheaper and a little smaller.

On 10/26/2023 at 11:48 PM, ac6000cw said:

According to the specs here https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-mirrorless-cameras/lumix-g-cameras/dc-g9m2.html#specs yes, the G9ii does 120p in both UHD and C4k

I have a feeling I might reach as much as 28 minutes of 4k 120fps before the buffer even fills up. I reckon the G9ii has about 8gb of internal buffer (which is amazing).

4 hours ago, kye said:

I have a strange relationship with the GX85, now that I've gotten sufficiently good at colour grading - I don't feel limited by it.  Of course, if they were to increase the DR, improve low-light performance, add 10-bit, etc etc, then I'd be happy, but I'm not chafing at the bit for those things.

I wouldn't complain either. With all the smaller cameras, it's always a give and take. The masses are no longer going to be buying them; so, make us a camera with much better ergos but small. It must be possible:

For me, I don't want the flash, but keep the hot shoe. Also, I don't want the EVF, I'd prefer a better flip-up screen and making it smaller. Also, I don't like the camera strap attachments like that. I'd prefer the ones on the G9 ii/S5. In terms of IO, just give us a mic jack.

For key specs, I want full-sensor readout and PDAF. Don't need 60fps or even 120fps, but I wouldn't whine if were in there. The other specs are just fine for me, especially the shutter (1/250 sync).

Maybe that camera wouldn't sell very well, but I'd get it. OMDS came close with the E-P7, which was great, but mine broke and they're still too expensive used. They also cheaped out with no PDAF, and the sub-par plastics (it creaks when you hold it, but it's only 337g). The E-P7 had decent IBIS and controls (two usable dials on top). It has full-sensor readout too. It had 120fps at 1080p. No mic jack though.

For many, the lack of EVF is a no-go, but I just don't like the hesitation I have over which one to use. For me, less is more in this case.

38 minutes ago, j_one said:

With the success of the x100v, I wonder why there hasn't been a large sensor compact refresh from Panny. The LX100 ii was barely an update too, I just don't understand...its one of my favorite cameras.

Yes, we need more contrast in the Panasonic line-up. Big-bodied FF and M43 is not enough. We need core Panasonic features in a tiny body too.

4 hours ago, kye said:

We all know that smartphones ate the point-and-shoot fixed lens market, but interchangeable lens cameras will always have a huge advantage over smartphones in this regard, so I think there will always be demand of some sort.

At this point, I think they should just forget about the existence of camera phones- they won the bad ergonomics point and shoot market. Let's just make a camera that enthusiasts will buy. IMO, the problem with phones is ergos and there's no way around it or it will no longer be a phone. Anything they do to "make it better" for photographers will make it clunky and not sell to the masses. Inherently, phones and cameras are different devices, for the same reason cinema cameras and camcorders will always have an edge on hybrid cameras for video. Hybrid cameras will always have and edge on cinema cameras and camcorders for photos.

FYI, the G9ii's manual is 832 pages long. Is that a record of some sort?

21 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

They should really do a GX9 II with the same pdaf sensor..

 https://fstoppers.com/reviews/panasonic-please-come-back-lumix-gx9-re-review-645313

Do you think they'll have a microphone jack? Probably not and Youtubers will hate it... 20 videos on release saying it's great, but they won't buy it because of no mic jack.

I'd rather see a GX800 with a mic jack, PDAF, and the G100's IBIS (all electronic which wasn't that bad). I don't like viewfinders on small cameras as they "just get in the way." Instead, give me a smaller body and bigger battery with a mic jack and PDAF. I'll be happy with that. It also provides more contrast in their lineup.

• S1H ii - video oriented, ultimate IQ with all the bells and whistles, high price
• S5 ii/iix- photo oriented, ulitimate IQ but not all the bells and whistles, bargain value
• GH7- video oriented, ultimate IQ with a crop with all the bells and whistles, high crop sensor price
• G9 ii- photo oriented, ulitimate IQ with a crop but not all the bells and whistles, decent crop sensor value
• G100, GX9 ii, GX850 ii- small video and photo camera with value features and excellent value.

If they make anything that anywhere close to the G9 ii in terms of size, they'll turn off people who want a small camera. It needs to me sub 350g which is really hard. People will expect full-sensor readout, 60fps with PDAF.

The real question is how cool can they make the G9 ii sensor as thermals will be key and probably the determining factor of the camera size. I'm ok with a fan in such a small body, but increase the size of the battery please- 250 shot CIPA minimum.

5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I agree, even though the lighter the better, it will obviously depend on the balance of the rig, the rig itself and time spent with.

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It will depend of course on the individual but for me, for stills, under 1kg is fine but for video, I prefer around 1.5kg as a sweet spot, as I find that is a nice stable platform and not too heavy.

2 hours ago, ntblowz said:

So this year I downsize my setup to rs3 mini and ZV-E1 with <500g lens (or R8 with 600g lens) instead of the hefty 24-70 2.8 on R5 on Ronin rs2 pro, that is over 1/2 the weight saved, with this new setup I m not as over tiring as before which is good for me.

At 658g, I guess the G9 ii isn't so bad. It gives 842g of lens and accessories. Here are some of the fastest setups and weights:

G9 ii + Panasonic 9mm f/1.7 = 788g

G9 ii + Olympus 17mm f/1.2 = 1048g

G9 ii + Olympus 25mm f/1.2 = 1068g

G9 ii + Olympus 45mm f/1.2 = 1068g

G9 ii + Olympus 75mm f/1.8 = 963g

G9 ii + Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 = 1418g

G9 ii + Olympus 75-300mm f/4.8-6.7 = 1081g

There are some nicer lenses at the telephoto end, but many put us over the mark as you'd expect.

This conversation begs the question: what is the acceptable weight for a handheld setup? IMO, 1.5kg is the upper limit. What do you think? BTW, I just turned 50.

1 hour ago, kye said:

For me, carrying a heavy camera around ended up hurting my wrist, so I figured it was tendons / ligaments / etc which all take time to grow.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I know you're joking, but I had this discussion a few weeks back with a steadicam op friend of mine, and he made the comment about how he needs to do a few steadicam gigs per month otherwise he doesn't keep up that fitness without those workouts. 

This is quite serious stuff. I don't know if you've seen any on P. Bloom's videos from last year, but the guy had massive lower back pain. IMO, humans are not meant for carrying significant weight 8 hours a day for a career. I'm not actually sure can work anymore.

9 minutes ago, Beritar said:

I have both the 10-25mm and the 25-50mm, these lenses are the pinnacle of M43.
Sure, they are very sharp, not extraordinary sharp as my 35mm GM, my 50mm S Pro or even my 24-70mm S Pro, but they are among the best you can find in M43. No, what make them special, apart from their focal range is their rendering.
Their local contrast (and colors in my opinion) is crazy good, especially the 25-50mm, one of my favorite lens ever.

I also have some of the fast little primes like the 20mm f1.7 II, the 15mm f1.7 and the 25mm f1.4 II.
They are not as sharp as the PanaLeica f1.7 zooms, but, the 20mm f1.7 is tiny, produce nice colors with good global contrast, and the image has a very good sense of volume, it is why so many people love it. The focus is slow and noisy (really noisy), but accurate, and from what I've seen the G9II makes the AF almost usable (certainly usable for me).
The 15mm and the 25mm are more expensive, slightly bigger, slightly less sharp wide open (especially the 25mm f1.4 which can be nice for video), but their AF is faster. 
They have not the same sense of volume as the 20mm in my opinion but they have solid local contrast, thought not as good as the Oly 25mm f1.2 Pro by exemple.

Those are good recommendations.

For pro lenses, I currently have 12-40 pro, 17mm pro, 40-150mm Pro f/2.8.

For non-pro, I have the 9mm, 14mm, 14-42 EZ (with a killer automatic lens cap), 17mm, 25mm, 45mm, 75mm, 75-300mm. I also just picked up (in a kit) the 12-32, and 35-100 f4-5.6, but I'm not sure I'll keep them.

I want the 25mm pro 1.2 when I find it at a decent price... and I'm determined I will. It would be great with the already amazing 17mm Pro.

I have thoughts on all these lenses that I'll probably share soon. (time permitted)

2 hours ago, kye said:

I have the GH5 and GX85.

The GH5 was my default body, and I used it with the Laowa 7.5mm F2, the Voigtlander 17.5mm F0.95 and the Voigtlander 42.5mm F0.95.  Occasionally I'd use a longer lens for wildlife etc, like the FD 70-210mm F4, or the Tokina 400mm F5.6.  I would carry the 12-35mm F2.8 for difficult situations where I need very fast zooming or extra IS.

That was up until a recent trip when I discovered the GX85 with the 14mm F2.5 pancake lens combo.  Not only did I fall in love with the size of the setup, and the lack of attention it raised, but I also discovered that the AF-S was extremely useful and the DoF was adequate.  

I've since come upon the idea that there are three setups that I think I will pursue:

1. GX85 with 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 zoom lens
   Having a 10X zoom lens will be liberating because I'll be able to shoot whatever compositions I can see, the AF-S will allow me to work really quickly, and (after spending a lot of time with a DoF calculator) I realised that the DoF should be sufficient for the work I do.  This is a day-time setup.
   Interestingly, this lens is the same size as the 12-35mm F2.8 lens, so not too bad in practice.
2. GX85 with 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 pancake lens
   Compact walk-around setup when size really matters, and still gives a good zoom range.  Similar use-case to the above.
3. GX85 with 7.5mm F2, TTartisan 17mm F1.4, and TTartisan 50mm F1.2 lenses
   This is the low-light setup.

All that is in combination with iPhone, and especially the wide camera, which acts as a second body and gives quick access to a super-wide angle.

If I was going somewhere that camera size didn't really matter, like doing a tour with a busload of tourists, then I'd consider taking the GH5 instead, but I'm struggling to put my finger on why it would be that much better.  I know it has various better specs, but in reality I'm only doing home video stuff, so the shooting experience and the reaction of people in-frame matters more than DR etc.

My philosophy is to think hard about how I shoot and what I am trying to achieve and to challenge my assumptions.  Hope this is useful 🙂 

Very helpful. Thanks for that. The superzoom option is interesting as I've never done it. The GX85 is such a great camera. In fact, it's the only other camera that I've preordered. I had it for 2 years, but sold due to gas. I often wish I had just kept it all this time, but wanted to try other things (watched too much YouTube probably).

I've been thinking of the "system" a little differently though. I've been thinking "big and capable" vs. "small and less features"; not "low-light" vs. "abundant light". It's essentially the same though. I guess it's more about a "get by with" system and "no compromise-ish" system.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

I really like this pairing and whether one body and switching lenses, or a matched pair, if I was shooting 4/3rds video, stills or hybrid, those full frame focal lengths of 20-50 (indoors in my world) and 50-100 (out) are near perfect.

The only thing that bothers me is the size and weight that isn’t quite in keeping with the 4/3rds approach, but then compared with equivalent (that don’t exist!) full frame zooms, they are hardly tanks.

I prefer primes in principle but fast zooms are just more convenient more of the time.

 

I've also considered those big zooms, but the size and price are just killer.

44 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

If I had to choose just one lens to keep out of my collection, it would be the Pana 14-140mm F3.5-F5.6 - for the range it provides it's relatively small (75mm long) and light (265g), it supports dual-IS2, focus breathing isn't noticeable and on my copy at least the zoom ring is reasonably smooth. It's been my most-used lens ever since I got it as a bundle with a G6 years ago.

If I could keep a few more, then...

The Oly 12-40mm F2.8 - just a great all-round, reasonably bright, moderate wide to moderate telephoto, no noticeable focus breathing, 85mm long and 382g. (The Pana 12-35mm F2.8 is a bit smaller and lighter and gets you dual-IS - I was considering both a while ago and then a really good used deal on the Oly came up so I went for that).

The Oly 75-300mm F4.8-F6.7 - what I use most often for wildlife, pretty small (117mm long) and light (423g) for the focal range, and decently sharp for something that small/light/cheap.

Low light? usually just chuck the Pana 25mm F1.7 into the camera bag or pocket in case I need it - cheap/small/only 125g.

I also own the old Pana 20mm F1.7, but that's noisy when focusing, so I might swap it for a 17mm or 15mm fast AF prime at some point (Oly or Pana Leica probably).

I've recently acquired a used Pana 35-100mm F2.8 (to complement the Oly 12-40mm F2.8). Decent lens and not too large/heavy for a 'pro' lens, but it's got noticeable focus breathing so not ideal for video C-AF use.

(and yes, the Pana 12-32mm pancake is great when you want to keep things as small as possible, especially if you're taking two cameras on a trip, so that would be a 'keeper' too).

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

..so it's 200 Mbps up to 30p 4:3 and 300 Mbps up to 60p 17:9.

I've captured Olympus C4k at 237 Mbps and G9 150 Mbps 4k50p to Sandisk Extreme (non-Pro) 128MB & 256MB V30 UHS-1 cards with no problem, so 200 Mbs should be fine to a high-spec V30 card (V30 rating => 30 MBs => 240 Mbps sustained write speeds). In reality I've found the high-spec, larger capacity (128GB or larger) V30 cards are very fast, limited as much by the UHS-1 interfaces as anything else, so you may find that 300 Mbps works fine.

Datasheet performance figures for a UHS-1 Sandisk Extreme (non-Pro):

Yeah, I've also shot with the Olympus C4k, but it almost never hit those datarates, only at f8, lots of detail and handheld. I'll probably go for the v60 cards as they seem to be the best compromise. If I need more, I'll go for my SSD.

47 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

If I had to choose just one lens to keep out of my collection, it would be the Pana 14-140mm F3.5-F5.6 - for the range it provides it's relatively small (75mm long) and light (265g), it supports dual-IS2, focus breathing isn't noticeable and on my copy at least the zoom ring is reasonably smooth. It's been my most-used lens ever since I got it as a bundle with a G6 years ago.

If I could keep a few more, then...

The Oly 12-40mm F2.8 - just a great all-round, reasonably bright, moderate wide to moderate telephoto, no noticeable focus breathing, 85mm long and 382g. (The Pana 12-35mm F2.8 is a bit smaller and lighter and gets you dual-IS - I was considering both a while ago and then a really good used deal on the Oly came up so I went for that).

The Oly 75-300mm F4.8-F6.7 - what I use most often for wildlife, pretty small (117mm long) and light (423g) for the focal range, and decently sharp for something that small/light/cheap.

Low light? usually just chuck the Pana 25mm F1.7 into the camera bag or pocket in case I need it - cheap/small/only 125g.

I also own the old Pana 20mm F1.7, but that's noisy when focusing, so I might swap it for a 17mm or 15mm fast AF prime at some point (Oly or Pana Leica probably).

I've recently acquired a used Pana 35-100mm F2.8 (to complement the Oly 12-40mm F2.8). Decent lens and not too large/heavy for a 'pro' lens, but it's got noticeable focus breathing so not ideal for video C-AF use.

(and yes, the Pana 12-32mm pancake is great when you want to keep things as small as possible, especially if you're taking two cameras on a trip, so that would be a 'keeper' too).

Again, the superzoom is compelling (and only 265g). I already have most of the other lenses you mention with the exception of the 35-100; instead, I have the 40-150 Pro f/2.8. I'm not sure it's a better lens. I sold the Pany 20mm, but loved it for DFD.

36 minutes ago, Beritar said:

No, the GH6 is able to do 4K 120fps as well. 
The issue is with 5,7K, only available in 17:9.

Thanks. My mistake. I don't know why I couldn't figure that out. (I should have kept my mouth shut.)

Just thinking through a big camera and small camera setup in terms of lenses, I think it makes sense to alternate between "pro" lenses and "consumer" lenses throughout the popular focal lengths. For example in MFT,

fisheye, 10, 12, 17, 25, 42.5, 75, 150, 300 (or more)

This would allow to mix and match better and have the right tool for the job. In the past, I thought I'd just copy the focal range for the pro and consumer camera, having the same focal range in both, understand better the focal length and essentially working consistently. For example,

Pro: 12-35, 35-100, 200 (don't have any of these lenses)

Consumer: 12-32, 35-100

Conversely, one could just choose the 10-25 and 25-50 (don't have those either) to cover most of the focal range, then choose small primes on the consumer side.

Maybe some could double as a lens in both situations (example, use the 9mm for both pro and consumer if it passes mustard).

Fact: the G9 ii is big for MFT; maybe the features will mitigate this, but the need for a smaller camera (for me) is necessary. The question is: which focal lengths should be pro and which should be consumer and not let the size of the g9 ii to get "out of hand".

I just curious to know what you would do if you need two systems (big and small), what would you choose/have you chosen?

4 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

(Quotes from Panasonic UK G9ii specs. It supports 100p as well)

6 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

yes, the G9ii does 120p in both UHD and C4k

That was ONE of the annoying parts about the GH6. The C4k 120fps was often a completely different aspect ratio from the rest... a lack of UHD meant you were either cropping the 120fps footage or making the entire project in C4k. It was a strange limitation. The GH6 seemed to do everything, but not that. Maybe it'll be fixed in firmware.

Am I correct in saying the G9 ii does 120fps 4k, but the GH6 only does C4k 120fps?

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

How did you feel about the GH6 btw? 

I liked it. I felt like there was a rather large learning curve having come from very consumer Panasonic cameras to something that has so much in it. The AF seemed serviceable to me, but I'm sure the G9 ii will make it look bad. It seemed a little overkill for me and my family stuff. I better understand the menus now; so, the G9 ii will be fine, but still, there's more than what I need out of a camera. If everything goes well, I'll sell my E-M1 ii and use the G9 ii for my "big" camera with big lenses and a GX800 for my "fun, small" camera. It's funny because I've bought and sold the GX800 3 times now and it's one of the most fun cameras I've ever had. I just can't live with so many audio and video quirks. I expect the G9 ii to perform better for all of my needs over the GH6 and the E-M1 ii.

Well, I've decided to get the G9 ii. Should arrive around November 2. If people have questions, I'll do my best to answer.

Also, now that I've given up my CF Express Type B that I used for my GH6, I have many v30 cards, but no v60 or v90. I don't really need the highest data rates, but I want 4k 120fps. What card to I need for that? On my CF Express card, I could just do everything without thinking about it, but I'd rather not have to shell out serious money for a v90 card unless absolutely necessary. When I look at the 4k 120fps files, their only 100 Mbps in HVEC. Can a v30 card handle 5.8 open gate?

On the G100, I tried a number of things to eliminate moiré, including a mist filter. Maybe it wasn't the right strength, but nothing worked other than moving back a foot or so. Of course the framing was wrong after that. I even tried a different lens altogether and kept the same frame- it was the same result, moiré on a cotton shirt. Panasonic does a decent job at detecting moiré and removing the color from it but the pattern remains. With DFD, it was always puling and that also mitigated the problem- moiré would go off and on.

I watched a video just this morning filmed on a X-T5 and there was moiré of the worst kind with plenty of colors roaming around. It was definitely the shirt though. Clothing is one thing you can control sometimes, but not buildings. On a wedding shoot like yours, it's impossible though.

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I’ve never seen moiré on any S5ii footage using a 1/8th so coincidence or because of?

Good to know!

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Being serious, it was quite a big issue with the S5 for me, especially with stills because if the camera captured it, then it was game over.

I had one wedding where the groom and all his men, their jackets…all day long… 🙈

Not really tested it with the S5ii as I moved the S1H into the photo role and now with the Nikon Zf, that very rare thing these days, an OLPF as standard. Yay.

So, how did you deal with that? That seems like a nightmare!

2 minutes ago, kye said:

Yes and no. 

The Foveon sensor would mean that demosiacing wouldn't be required but it might still have dead spots between the photosites, which is what I was talking about.

Here's an image showing what I mean...  the yellow areas indicate the light from the scene that would be captured by each photo site, and the blue areas indicate the light from the scene that would not be detected by any photo site on the sensor:

If the micro lenses were configured to make sure all light made its way onto a photo site then it would eliminate this issue, like the below shows on the right with the gapless micro lenses:

It's worth mentioning that not all lenses project the scene onto the sensor from directly in front either - some lenses have the light hitting the sensor at quite an angle, which can interfere with how well the micro lenses are able to direct all the light to a photo site.   

These lenses are typically from older cameras which were designed to project onto film, which didn't care about the angle it got exposed from.  This is why different lenses often vignette differently on different cameras, especially vintage wide angle lenses that might be projecting the image circle from the middle to the edges at quite a steep angle.

So what I was saying earlier about a correlation between pixel density and moiré is true. The less space there is between pixels, the less chance of moiré. In this case, 12k capture is better than 4k when it comes to moiré.

On the G100, it really sucked for 1080p moiré at precisely the distance one would vlog at. Go back 50 cm and moiré would be gone due to the frequency of the patterns. I imagine the GX80/85 has a similar problem in 1080p.

2 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of moire, the only guaranteed solutions are an OLPF or to have pixels that have 100% coverage (ie, no gaps between the pixels).  If you don't have either of those, there is always the possibility that a repeating pattern will fall into the gaps between the pixels and therefore be completely invisible to the sensor at that location where the pattern and pixels are identically spaced.

Yes. If only the Foveon sensor took off, moiré would be out of everything. We should start a new thread on moiré only. I bet if we pool our resources, we might be able to diminish the effect in post or planning. If you look on YouTube, there isn't really that much on the subject; maybe that's why there isn't more energy put into it.

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

The G9 makes sense as you have the glass. I'd wait until it drops in price though. The GH6 is so cheap now used and is practically the same camera. It is the same with the S5 ii though, the original S5 goes for under $1000 now used. Essentially paying a grand for auto focus and prores on the S5X. 

Yes. the GH6 is cheap now. It's an amazing deal. I just sold mine and I didn't lose too much, but I bought it at a deep discount on Black Friday. My feeling is that Panasonic isn't going to do the same deals for Black Friday this year. Anyway, I lost a couple hundred, not bad for owning it for a year. I also made it up in other gear I purchased and sold it at a profit. It sounds crazy to pay so much for AF, but fortunately, it's not just that as there are many other features too. For me, I just want something significantly better than my E-M1 ii and I think the G9 ii hits the mark, especially on the video side; with photos, only a little.

I learned a couple of things after watching a Lumix live stream. DFD is still used for S-AF because it's faster than PDAF. I've also heard that when working in low-light and small apertures (f11), only contrast is used due to PDAF not being efficient- this is true amongst all brands.

9 minutes ago, Beritar said:

There is no miracle, in order to have the best picture (similar to a picture raw file), the less processing is always better, but moiré is certainly an issue for most people. It is why the Panasonic S1H has probably the nicest video quality from a camera below 4000$, details are less processed than the GH6 or the S5II, and the OLPF eleminates the moiré without looking unnatural. 

Yeah, I've seen moiré on that too. In fact, I don't know too many cameras that, with 100% certainty, don't have moiré. I'll bet even an ALEXA might have some frequency where it happens. Awhile back, I purchased some Ikea "lace" curtains and I notice a moiré effect with my naked eye, something that I thought was only possible on digital sensors, but I guess not. Oddly enough, none of my digital sensors would pick up the moiré patterns that I could see. It's 2023 and we've AI upresing and all other sorts of quality improvements, but no software AI has figured out moiré.