markr041

Testing at night in 4K 60P:
 

I mentioned in another thread about the PZ-E1 adapter they previously did for the EF-S 18-135mm.
It doesn't look too dissimilar so I'm struggling to see how its gone from $150 to $1000 in six years.
If they get it supported in future lenses then that would soften the blow spreading that cost over a few different ones but I'd be cautious because they never did add support for the PZ-E1 beyond that initial lens.
 

I am still concerned by the audio (not relevant for this video, which is just for Happy Halloween), with the internal-mic audio sounding odd.
For the internal mics, there is no control of gain. For any external mic, however, there is. And any usb-c mic will work even in stereo (I tried one), and with an external mic you see audio meter bars on the screen by which to check and set audio levels. It also seems that any usb-c to female 3.5" converter cable will also work so one can use wired standard mics with unbalanced connectors with the camera, unlike for the GoPro's.
Finally, you can use two DJI wireless mic2's to record in stereo, if you can purchase a second DJI mic2. So, interviewer and interviewee mic'ed up wirelessly with 32bit float recorded on each "mic" as backup.
So, the audio is actually a big focus for the camera, but I do not understand why the double standard, internal and external.
 

Yes there is only a few limited options for 4k240 .... RED and Blackmagic have models but are heavy crop, Freefly Ember but it is very specialized and expensive.

If you have a sharp and high shutter speed image at 4k 120fps to start with Davinci Resolve 18 with retime: OpticalFlow and motion estimation: Speed Wrap, does a quite good job interpolating frames, here a complex background and movement example that I tried a couple of weeks a ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5gxj6KVBoY

Look at the horse tail for me is quite impressive.

No D-Log option for 4K 120P.
It seems to me the Hero 12 (11) has greater dynamic range using G-log (which is available at all frame rates and resolutions) than the Pocket 3 D-Log.  At least the Hero 12 handles highlights better. I am now shooting the Pocket 3 with EV -.3 now to try to improve the preservation of highlights.

4K 120P Slow Motion Demo
Standard color (no D-Log).

OK, here you go: using the D-Log M 10bit setting and the official DJI D-Log M LUT (I hate LUTs, but what can you do):
Harsh highlights and very processed-sounding audio (set to stereo, front). Not stressed in lower light as expected. Colors are good, but somehow not so appealing. I nixed a bunch of outdoors shots because they were all overexposed (based on using auto exposure), not a problem with current GoPro's (used to be).
Noise reduction was turned off in the camera, sharpness set to -1, not -2, from 0.
GoPro's look to me to have better handling of highlights, more appealing color, and much better audio. Pocket 3 does the job in low light, where the GoPro essentially cannot operate.
I do not think anyone would shoot a mediocre attempted blockbuster film with the Pocket 3 (as was done with the fx3), and it's not a crash cam.
But if one wants to move with the camera in dim places and loves portability this is the only alternative.
It does, btw, charge really fast and it is a nice screen. But that audio...
I will try again outdoors in bright light.

OK, here you go: using the D-Log M 10bit setting and the official DJI D-Log M LUT (I hate LUTs, but what can you do):
Harsh highlights and very processed-sounding audio (set to stereo, front). Not stressed in lower light as expected. Colors are good, but somehow not so appealing. I nixed a bunch of outdoors shots because they were all overexposed (based on using auto exposure), not a problem with current GoPro's (used to be).
Noise reduction was turned off in the camera, sharpness set to -1, not -2, from 0.
GoPro's look to me to have better handling of highlights, more appealing color, and much better audio. Pocket 3 does the job in low light, where the GoPro essentially cannot operate.
I do not think anyone would shoot a mediocre attempted blockbuster film with the Pocket 3 (as was done with the fx3), and it's not a crash cam.
But if one wants to move with the camera in dim places and loves portability this is the only alternative.
It does, btw, charge really fast and it is a nice screen. But that audio...
I will try again outdoors in bright light.

I agree. My only conern is the audio - no manual control of audio levels. Almost all the other 1" sensor cameras have audio manual control. The other is no aperture/shutter contol that I see. Bright light needs external ND filters (which are available), very awkward to even attain 180 shutter. The 1"  Canon V10 has full manual control of audio and video settings and builtin ND.

I agree. My only conern is the audio - no manual control of audio levels. Almost all the other 1" sensor cameras have audio manual control. The other is no aperture/shutter contol that I see. Bright light needs external ND filters (which are available), very awkward to even attain 180 shutter. The 1"  Canon V10 has full manual control of audio and video settings and builtin ND.

Not much else to invent around, that's it : ) My choice on mobile side though would include the upcoming Osmo Pocket 3 anyway, available just in a few days... ;- )

Leaving aside the condescending tone (really, we all need to learn color grading because we do not do it?), I agree with the OP that none of the default LUTs or transforms to REC709 are satisfactory and adjustments in post are almost always needed. And the examples are useful.
For the opportunistic video I shoot, for which it is impossible to set white balance manually and catch the shot, I use auto WB. And WB that is off is the number one problem with the ungraded but transformed clips. This is one reason why I shoot RAW, because WB adjustments are always needed. The examples given seem to be of studio shots with controlled lighting and time to set everything right in the camera, and so are good examples of the pure inadequacy of the transforms shot correctly (although one looks underexposed).
Generally, after transforms and WB adjustments I find saturation needs boosting as well as contrast, but skin tones are usually ok. For real RAW, sharpness needs tweaking too. The aim of course in my case is to mimic reality (the illusion of reality). None of this makes me an expert in color grading, and I am still learning some skills, but it has been enough to get positive "wows" from viewers seeing 8K 60 fps representations meant to convey they are there.

That's great stuff, and we can see why you had some frustrating experiences. But you could read the history as GoPro responding to issues: eg, create the Enduro battery precisely to improve battery life in the cold, overcome the heat and battery life issues of the highest resolutions and frame rates, improve the responsiveness of the lcd to touch, add 10 bit color, provide log gammas, add full-sensor framing (8:7), up resolution, improve stabilization, make performance more reliable. And all the while keeping the same form factor and robustness and price. No to mention GoPro Labs innovations and the the use of QR codes.
Having failures is a symptom of innovation. There are really still no competitors (leaving aside 360 for now) that are not just trying to match, unsuccessfully, Hero's. No real innovation by anyone else.
And, we should keep complaining, because GoPro evidently responds!
 

5.3K 60p is the mode that is mostly likely to lead to thermal shutdown, *according to GoPro*. Indeed that mode is where on the Hero 12 they claim to have made the most improvements in battery life and heating.  Anyway, the relative thermal and battery life performance suggest 5.3K 60p is the most taxing on the GoPro.
I agree downsampling is strenuous; I wonder if the 4K modes are line skipped or pixel binned. GoPro has never revealed how they achieve full sensor framing at lower resolutions.
I often downsample 5.3K in post to 4K and that takes more time than just rendering at 5.3K. Similarly, rendering at 8K from 8K RAW takes less resources than rendering at 4K. So I produce 8K and 5.3K videos and let YouTube do the downsampling to 4K if I upload!

Are we judging cameras by manufacturers stock prices now? 🙂
I have been shooting with GoPro's since the Hero 4 (including 3D!). GoPro has indeed from model to model made substantial improvements while essentially keeping the same form factor and price. That is the history. The 4's, for example, overheated but did not have thermal protection so that they did not turn off (and thus you got images that bloomed), each successive model had an issue. But also new capabilities.
I agree the 12 is a very, very, very trivial improvement on the 11, especially if you use Labs firmware - amazing capabilities. GoPro software is irrelevant (and they mostly have dropped whatever they had)- but who needs it who is serious about editing? Subscriptions do give you discounts on new cameras, so it does cheapen the hardware upgrades non-trivially. If you subscribe, sell the Hero 11, you can probably pay a net of $150 for a new Hero 12. Yes, that's a lot for a "firmware" upgrade, but you do get an added and fresh battery and a new warranty (including the subscription insurance)!
Is it fair to say the 12 has the least "bugs"? And, if it has some, what exactly are they? I have shot loads of Hero 12 video at 5.3K 60p - the most extreme and taxing mode, at 180 Mbps, with 10bit color and the full color gamut and log gamma. And 4K 120p too. I have not encountered a single problem. What am I missing? should I worry about something? Let us all know. I have a shoot coming up.
 

I recently asked for book recommendations to learn about human vision and was given a link to a free PDF.
It is incredible.
I'm only a quarter of the way through, but I'm absolutely blown away.  The human vision system looks like it was designed by committee and then re-imagined by Dali and Picasso, while on drugs.  It is a wonder we can see anything at all!
Did you know that the rods and cones (which detect light) are BEHIND a bunch of nerves and nerve cells and blood vessels, so the light has to go through a bunch of crap before you even sense it?   
The book is actually a mix of how the human vision system works and also what we have done with the tech to try and align to it, so it's a nice blend of biology and tech.  It's also very readable and tries to be as non-technical as possible.  This is a rare find compared to other books that are hugely tech heavy.
Take the red pill with me...  download it here: https://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/support/documents/colourbook/colourbook.php (download it by clicking on the box next to the file size).

I understand what you want to know and why, but I do not shoot 4K, only 5.3K, I don't shoot clips more than a few minutes in length, and I do not shoot underwater. So, I cannot help you. When one shoots short clips like I do, battery life is irrelevant - carrying an extra GoPro battery and switching are not important burdens. 
I would suggest searching "Hero 12 underwater video". I found a bunch of videos of people shooting underwater with a Hero 12 and who formerly used a Hero 12. You could ask them in the comments section about battery life. "Fintastic Films" is one example,.
That is better than listening to anyone quoting a site or to somebody, like me, who gets nothing from longer battery life (overheating is another thing).

From petapixel it more like 10-15% better

8K is cancelled.
Just use AI to make it better...  IMAX does!
https://ymcinema.com/2023/10/02/imax-ceo-we-use-ai-to-blowup-images/?expand_article=1
From IMAX CEO, Richard Gelfond:
"we use it to blow up images. We use AI to make the images look better, we sharpen the edges, and we take the grain out. We have been using AI for supplements for a while." "However, the best reference for that utilization of the IMAX proprietary algorithm and AI tech, is the talked-about sci-fi project, The Creator. The movie was shot entirely on Sony FX3 which is not an IMAX-certified camera. Nevertheless, the ProRes RAW footage was undergone special treatment by IMAX AI technologies, in order to boost the imagery and make it capable enough to hold up against the huge canvas." Other streaming services only store feature films in 2K and upscale to 4K for people who stream in 4K, and now IMAX, the supposed best quality folks upscale using AI.
We all knew that streaming was a low-quality distribution, and now IMAX is too...
How can they get away with this????  
Maybe.... *gasp* ....because it's not visible?  I mean, you could say that AI is good enough for IMAX, but you could also say that visual perception is so low that you can't even tell that IMAX is upscaling with AI!  It works both ways!!
😂😂😂

Yes, always base ISO (800). And I do not think that clip was underexposed overall and pushed up in post. Could be just as you say, small pixels necessary for high resolution.

Looking at those stills close up they seem to have a nice noise structure which is actually quite filmic / organic.  You can definitely tell it's RAW and not sharpened in-camera.  
I had the same experience with my Canon 700D when I installed Magic Lantern.  Using the compressed modes was awful because the noise from the sensor (which was a lot) was awful when compressed, but in RAW it had a rather pleasing aesthetic.

FYI - Nexto was acquired by TVLogic and this is their new backup storage product: https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/09/28/clouzen-tainer-all-in-one-portable-backup-storage-review/

My experience shooting 8K RAW with the Nikon Z8 is similar - the 8K videos look stunning even viewed in 8K on 4K monitors.
Of course, extracting stills from video slips runs up against shooting at low frame rates and shutter speeds. I shoot at 8K 60p because I am into "you are there" video, not filmic video. And shooting at 1/125th is sufficient for most stills-from-video to avoid blur.
An 8K video, and extracted 8K stills:
You can only watch this in 8K using the Chrome browser - neither Edge nor safari will display in 8k no matter what (actually I got to select 8K just clicking on the video here and I am using Edge!?).
Some extracted stills: