markr041

33 minutes ago, Fox said:

As i mentionned earlier, you obviously won’t have any wobble with your lens as wobble is a problem affecting focal length below 24mm such as 20mm or 16mm as found on the EF 16-35 or 15-35 RF… 

so again you will not have any wobble with your 24-70 or 24-105.

More than static shots, IBIS should allow you to walk with your camera and greatly reduce camera shake. That’s what effectively happens with competitors offering IBIS, such as Sony, and yes, even my iPhone.  
 

It is an issue on the R5 and probably due to a bug or misconception, unacceptable in my view, when the feature is sold and advertised as “the best in class” up to 8 stops

You cannot walk with any camera using IBIS  and get acceptable stability. Your standards are low if you think so. 

If the wobble exists below 20mm for static shots, then there is a problem. But the problem is for specific lenses.

But in any case you will never be able to walk or run or creep with a camera using IBIS and get results that rival a gimbal or would be acceptable to professionals.

If you use a gimbal, none of this matters.

2 hours ago, Fox said:

So we are talking about an IBIS which is supposed to stabilize an image but actually brings wobble, so you need to turn it OFF and use a gimbal to have steady smooth shots? What's the point of IBIS then? What about handheld shots? I'm sorry I can't agree on this especially when the competitors have a usable IBIS feature that you actually don't need to turn off when shooting video, and on the contrary help stabilizing the shots as they are intended to. Youtube is full of these wobbling videos. That's a real issue in my view. Even my 12 Pro Max iPhone has IBIS and it is working allright

No, I used IBIS and no wobble. I am not trying to sell you on this. You can see from my video the handheld stabilization is amazingly good. You made the claim on wobble, I am just guessing what the cause is if it exists.

But, let's be clear - IBIS and OIS are for removing shake. They do not smooth while walking with the camera by professional standards for any camera - it works great for handheld static shots, as I have shown. If you move with the camera, you must use a gimbal - that certainly includes your iPhone. Whether IBIS helps or hinders gimbal stabilization is actually not clear for any camera.

I have posted lots of videos, and none with wobble. So, is it a particular lens they used or what? I have also seen lots of R5 videos with no wobble, from videographers that know what they are doing. I agree, if there is wobble in static shots with some lens, it is a concern. So, let's get clear what is going on and what stabilization is actually needed.

If you want to move with the camera, then you certainly need a gimbal, and you do not need IBIS or OIS, so no wobble induced by the camera or lens, if it exists. Even panning really does not need camera stabilization. Is it alleged that wobble occurs without IS?

15 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Wobbling is certainly if not most apparent and annoying, if it exists, for static shots. I can't help out below 24.

39 minutes ago, Fox said:

Well the thing is all reports of wobbling are specific about problems with focal length below 24mm, such as 16mm…

sure you won’t have this problem with a 24-105mm, especially that most of these shots are “still” without any kind of movements 

Wobbling is certainly if not most apparent and annoying, if it exists, for static shots. I can't help out below 24.

21 minutes ago, Fox said:

Well the thing is all reports of wobbling are specific about problems with focal length below 24mm, such as 16mm…

sure you won’t have this problem with a 24-105mm, especially that most of these shots are “still” without any kind of movements 

Wobbling is certainly if not most apparent and annoying, if it exists, for static shots. I can't help out below 24.

Example with Canon RF 24-105 IS STM lens:

2 hours ago, Fox said:

I saw some reports about some “wobbling” issues with the image stabilization… Many YouTube’s videos about it. Do you have this issue?

 

I also saw a recording time limit (apart from overheating) of 29:59 whereas the Sony’s don’t have time limits.
 

Also I understand Andrew Reid here sold his and is still totally against it (I understand because of overheating but don’t know what he thinks beyond that)

 

i think these are the 3 main points still refraining me though

 

Overheating and the time limit are both now irrelevant if the R5 is combined with the Ninja V+. I think the IBIS wobble was confined to an EF lens with IS, the EF 16-35 L. I don't see it in videos I have shot, with an RF lens with IS.

1 hour ago, Fox said:

Wow Thanks!

 

Now I'm having a hard time deciding between the Canon R5 and the Sony A1. 🙂

Considering buying the ninja V+ and a bunch of lenses and accessories up to 15000 bucks, I've come to the exact same estimated price if it buy either one for similar combos.

Any decisive point between one and the other?

 

Point? How about points! The R5 has 8K RAW, it has lower rolling shutter, it has better AF, it has better stabilization, and it has better 4K, in HQ mode (sampled from 8K). With overheating solved using the Ninja V+, it seems there is no contest. Am I missing something?

I have rigged the Zitay CFExpress to SSD on my R5 for handheld work with a 1 TB Samsung 980 Pro SSD. It works fine at the highest bitrates (8K RAW) and the CFExpress "card' plugs into any CFExpress reader and the transfer rate from the SSD is the same as if it were a CFExpress card (400 MBps). The combo is a significantly cheaper alternative to any 1 TB CFExpress card that has the capability of the 8K RAW bitrates (few do - Canon has a list). I did not find it awkward to use it in the field. But out in the sun I do not think this rig increased time to overheat. Thus, I do not think the CFExpres card is an important source of the heat issue. So, a cheaper alternative for high-capacity fast storage but not a heat saver.

On 6/9/2021 at 10:06 AM, Fox said:

Thanks! Do you have a picture of that cable holder?

Yes.

You can shoot in RAW or RAW light, and both can be edited using the RAW panel in DaVinci Resolve with full controls, including ISO and temperature. For workflow, the R5 can shoot RAW and proxies simultaneously, making it very easy to edit with proxies in Resolve - you just link the RAW clips to the folder with the proxies made by the camera. The RAW clips are recorded on the CFExpress card, the proxies on the sd card. Yes, the proxies have the same name (different extension) as the RAW clips.

Two examples:

And, no, the camera did not overheat in the bright sun (75+ F).

On 6/1/2021 at 2:17 PM, Fox said:

Well I think the mini hdmi is totally out of the question for me, far too unreliable and prone to damage if i am not wrong.

I have one question: with those mirrorless recording to an Atomos Ninja, do you anyway have to ALSO record internally to a card or can you record straight to the Ninja without a card inside the camera?

The R5 comes with a cable holder that locks the HDMI cable to the camera. There is no electronic issue with micro or mini HDMI.

You can record 8K 12bit and 4K 120p ProResRAW with the Ninja V+, and there should be no overheating. You can record 10bit 4K 60p ProRes 422 HQ with the Ninja V and there is no overheating.

On 5/17/2021 at 9:33 AM, Anaconda_ said:

Only the 12g versions can record Braw. 

Is anyone here using EF lenses on their FP? I want to get the  MC21, but it just seems so expensive for what it is. And I think Fotodiox stopped making their adapter. 

Yes, I have used the EF 35mm f2.0, EF 28mm f2.8 and EF S 18-135, EF S 10-18, EF S15-85. All work well with the MC21 adapter - stabilization and push-to-focus-AF. Examples:

This commissioned skateboarding video was shot using the fx3, but it used the features that the a7s iii has: 120p 4K, all intra-codec to minimize motion artifacts, IBIS, good AF, and the parfocal behavior of the 28-60mm lens.

The expressions of the skateboarder as he fails over and over and then nails it, twice, are the foci.

Here is a GoPro Hero9 Shot in 5K Linear Mode + Horizon levelling. Note that Linear mode crops and horizon-leveling + stabilization crops even more. So do not expect 5K resolution. This was shot in 5K and rendered in 4K:

This was shot in 5K Wide with stabilization high only and rendered in 5K:

2 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

the lens can be swapped, so a 3rd party could produce a narrower lens

No, sorry. The lens cover comes off, not the lens. On the Hero8 the lens cover could not be removed.

On 9/14/2020 at 6:11 PM, TennisGuy said:

I'm obviously late seeing this thread (only about 3 years:)), but thanks for your post @HockeyFan12- very helpful info. I have a Canon C100 mark i and have to shoot some handheld tennis footage and looking for a lens that's relatively light with fairly quiet and fast AF & IS. Are you still a fan of the STMs? Good to hear you especially like the IS on the 55-250 STM since I'm looking at that one, though I'll be shooting some stuff behind players on the court so may need something wider. I'm also looking at the EF 24-105 f/4 L IS II though I'm not sure if the IS & AF are as good/quiet as on the STMs or whether the image is significantly better to justify the higher price. If there's a lens suggestion that springs to mind for what I'm doing, I'd love to hear your thoughts. 

I have the EF S 55-250mm, the EF 24-105mm f4 L lens and the EF S 18-135mm lens. The 18-135mm has much better stabilization and a better range for use on a crop sensor camera than the 24-105. The EF S 18-135mm in fact has a "nano" motor, which is supposed to have the best features of STM and USM, so it is both quiet and fast for AF (better than either STM or USM). It is a unique lens, and you can also make it a variable-power zoom lens, with a Canon attachment (small). That seems ideal for shooting sports action. As a benchmark the 55-250mm STM also has better stabilization than the 24-105 L lens.

2 hours ago, Sami Kallio said:

Sigma fp is smaller but does it count? No mechanical shutter and no hotshoe.

FF sensor on crop sensor body is tempting but I'm not in the market for a new camera. The $1900 price tag also won't tempt me to upgrade my a6400 for this. For someone who doesn't have FF body it might be tempting but there is still a lot of difference in price even to the a6600. So I do disagree, it won't kill Sony's crop segment, especially when you count in the price difference in lenses.

First, a mechanical shutter is irrelevant for video. And second, the fp does come with a cold shoe attachment. Why is a *hot* shoe important for video? So, yes, the fp is really a video camera. And this new Sony is much inferior in that dimension, unless you insist on continuous autofocus...

1 hour ago, andrgl said:

Knowing these aren’t crappy rehousings makes me tempted to pair them with a ZCAM E2-M4. They now have a locking MFT mount. With an SDI module, you have the tiniest cinema camera package on the market.

No, the Sigma fp is clearly the tiniest cinema camera on the market, and it is full frame besides shooting DNG RAW internally.

8 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Great interview, hopefully the FP sells enough to avoid being a drain on other resources. Cameras seem like a real passion project and they definitely take a different approach compared to the mainstream brands. Seems like a second generation of refinements, AF improvements and better processing could make the FP a real giant killer.

Like others I'd like to see them move beyond the giant, wide aperture primes and the 2.8 zoom trinity. There's plenty of demand for smaller 1.8 primes as we've seen by the popularity of Sony's 20/35/85 1.8's and well reviewed third party lenses like the Samyang 45/75 1.8's. I love the rendering of the 35/1.2 - it looks like the best 35 ever made - I just don't want to carry it around all the time. Given the size of the new 85/1.4, there's hope Sigma lenses won't always be so damn big. I love supporting companies like Sigma, I'm glad they're around.

Chris

While we are on the wish list for lenses from Sigma:  One of the key advantages of the Sigma fp is it is small. A disadvantage is it lacks in-body stabilization. But, most Sigma lenses are big, as was said, and most also lack stabilization. To use the fp handheld for video, small lenses with OIS are needed. Right now, one really has to use Canon lenses for that.

2 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Why pay for fullframe and not use it?  I don't agree with movies changing aspect ratios between shots, but I've no problem mixing fullframe and S35 and many productions do mix the two.  Were I to do so, I would choose a S35 cinema camera mixed with fullframe hybrid.  Each have their advantages.  

However this has nothing to do with the argument, is fullframe necessary.  Its more a question of how important fullframe is currently needed to shoot with.  I still feel that its not.  Yes, fullframe hybrids are dominating the market, but S35 is still popular for cinema cameras, and we can expect to see it continue for many more years.

First, it is silly to say that any aspect ratio, sensor size, etc. is necessary, so let's not waste time saying FF is not necessary. Of course it is not necessary. And one cannot generalize whether FF is "needed" or "important" either - depends on what look you want. So, debating what is needed is a waste of time too.

Second, the Sigma fp is a cinema camera, and it shoots full frame and APS-C. No need to switch cameras. to choose S35 or FF.  One may not like the camera for other reasons, so there is the Sony Venice...

In any case, having a FF cinema camera that has the option of crop mode, is better, all else the same, than having an S35 cinema camera because it provides more creative options. I do not think that is debatable also. You could say all else is not the  same - lenses larger, etc.

5 hours ago, TiiPii said:

Great interview!

Thinking video mainly here... I think Sigma is in a great position compared other Japanese camera manufacturers, and that's because they don't have to protect some pro cinema camera line up like Sony, Canon and Panasonic needs to. These companies will always hamper their consumer cameras in some ways in order to not cannibalize the pro line up. Sigma has no such problem. If they can do it technically, they could create a consumer/prosumer cinema (hybrid) camera that rivals the highest end cinema cameras and not think twice about it, and possibly disrupt both the pro and consumer market segments. If they can, they should.

In my opinion they shouldn't concentrate on the resolution game, 8K, whatever. That's not important in vast majority of applications. And in those applications where you need 8K or 12K there's cameras that can do that now. The most important thing to concentrate still is the dynamic range and that's where Sigma's focus should be. I take higher dynamic range over higher resolution any day of the week. 4K is plenty, but the dynamic range of Sigma FP isn't.  It's good, but it should be better.

Foveon sensor cinema camera would be nice to have (at least as a technology demo), but it's probably not going to happen any time soon, if ever. If need be they should use the sensor know-how they have in-house and develop their own high end CMOS sensor (again concentrating on dynamic range and color more than resolution).

But why am I saying they should do consumer/prosumer cinema camera and not a high end expensive pro cinema camera? Because as a market, it sucks. I greatly doubt anyone is going to get rich by selling pro cinema cameras because volumes are so low, not to mention the whole rental house game. Sigma already knows this from their cinema lenses. That market sucks too, but it was a no-brainer to enter since they had the lenses already. The money is in the consumer/prosumer market and that's why Sigma is in great position, because they don't have to worry about existing pro line up.  They can create whatever they want as long as it's technically possible and doesn't get too expensive.

Oh, and the next camera needs to have OLPF. Need that for video.

While we are on the wish-list route, I vote for 4K60/50P. Slow motion is important, and used in many creative videos and film. 60P is also good for fast moving subject, sports, action etc. Z Cam, new Sony, Panasonic, Blackmagic all have this option for either RAW or at least 10bit color. Sigma fp lags behind in this dimension of video capabilities.

And, btw, the FullHD 120P in the Sigma fp sucks, RAW or not. Everyone agrees. So, not line-skipping, pixel-binning 4K60P.

Maybe I am missing something, but with a full-frame camera you have the choice of shooting in APS-C or full-frame with a full-frame lens, right (true for the sigma fp and the Nikon Z6, for examples)? Then you can choose the look, lens and capabilities depending on the scene. Some movies change aspect ratios, why not FF and crop aesthetics too?

Ok, here is an uploaded 6K  test video, which you can view up to 5K (2880P). Looks good to me on my 4K and 1080 screens compared to the original,  which has a600 Mbps bitrate!, or any video in terms of color and resolution. This was shot in BRAW with no additional sharpening.

On 9/4/2020 at 5:00 PM, cameraeye said:

I think the fp is my next camera. Something truly flexible made for artists.

I really want an external prores raw camera too.

I’ve never used an L mount camera, how well does canon glass work on the fp? I know I can google but I prefer talking.

I shoot with the fp almost exclusively wigh Canon lenses. All work fine (IS, AF), but some perform better than others - faster AF. Performance is similar on Canon bodies, except no AFC in video mode with the Sigma adapter. Ask me about specific Canon lenses, as I have a bunch, and I can tell you about my experience (I shoot only RAW video).