Ed_David

WOW.  Love this analysis.

Trying, just need contacts not their REPORT A TIP thingy
from personal view post that my anonymous source alerted me to APPLE VS RED :
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2
 
"One of RED ex workers with lot of contacts inside sent me small note.
It is panic inside RED now.
They are extremely afraid considering any REDCODE detailed explanation and camera hardware analysis now.
As RED camera detailed dissection by pro engineers can unveil similar margins.
Firm is in very unstable state, as any weakness will be used by lot of companies to fight back in the raw video patents fight. And this can kill RED. As company won't be able to make enough new gear without this patents."
 
ALSO CAN SOMEONE research all lawsuits against red or red against others?  WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?  THIS IS BONKERS.  Are we witnessing the collaspe of a billionare's company due to a person in the UK who makes youtube videos with silly mario bros coin sounds?   . TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION

So much for me trying to hide. Looks like they have found me out...
 

 
At the time, I don't think appreciated my Redpress / Wordpress joke either.
 

 
I thought it was quite a funny satire but I was wrong. It was in fact "EXHIBIT A" in a trial.
JIM JAMMARD was very upset being bullied this way by the mighty Andrew Reid. It caused him enormous emotional distress. Redpress literally caused the billionaire in Orange Country MENTAL ANGUISH.

Now, where did I put that spare $75,000?

Opinions in the land of the free!

I read the same comment last night and it is both sad and scary that someone would reply like this in the wake of the 21st century on a western state.
All these are completely out of my league but what do I get is that the world suddenly have become too violent, and our "enemies" have to be eliminated or shutting up forever..this brings a certain middle-Aged smell in the atmosphere, of burned human flesh!
Of course I am exaggerating, or maybe not? I mean, it is a simple matter of finding the truth about some codec and the other part is willing to annihilate ethically and/or professionaly one person, what's next? Far far west solutions?
Alas, this is happening, people are taking the "law" into their hands and became judge/jury and punisher, this is a reality of our time, if we do not carefully protect our freedoms and laws after thousands of years of human struggle then a dog eat dog/big fish eats small/the law of the jungle will be tommorows law.
The war for the human rights is an eternal struggle, if socities relax for a couple of years, boom! Suddenly we are a couple of decades back!
It wasn't long ago that women and minorities didn't have a saying on most countries of this world, and surprisingly they still don't on a big part of this planet.
I just hope Red is better than this, and they should be careful with the posts in their friendly forums.
It is one thing to disagree with someone and have a civilized response and another thing to silence them with show of force or scare tactics.
Same here, we shouldn't hope for the demise of anyone and anything, the camera market is enough for everyone of us, and I hoped a much more civilized and above average industry.

Hey @Andrew Reid 
I'm not sure you and I can still be friends if you are going round the internet bullying *checks notes* a camera company owned by a billionaire who took legal action to shut you up that they knew you couldn't possibly afford to have defended.

Clearly, as Peter says, the internet bullying must be stopped.
Peter's solution to your spiteful bullying is to *checks notes* go on the internet and demand a camera company owned by a billionaire shuts you down by taking legal action they know you couldn't possibly afford to defend.

Anyway, I'm off to 3D print a new irony meter as my current one has just exploded.
 
 

Because RED also tried suing Apple/AtomOS for what they are doing! Supposedly they made "a deal", but that deal would appear to have been "Better STFU RED, if you want any chance of being treated nicely once we drag you to court and rip that bullshit patent out of your hands!". It's also the exact reason why no one has implemented IN CAMERA recording of ProRes RAW, which is far superior to any and everything that anyone else is doing with raw btw (or what they like to call raw and isn't… here's looking at you BRAW), let alone what RED has, since everyone is scared to get sued by these douches and rather leave it up to Apple to fix it. Good thing, too!
So this is for the free and FAIR proliferation of (ProRes) raw for any and everyone that wants it, which is the entire point behind even making PRraw in the first place!! Extremely high-performance, high-quality, low-data rate raw for everyone! To assume it's for Apple's bottomline is utter bullshit, since what they would stand to make from additional licensing (that's assuming PRraw won't in fact just simply be included in existing ProRes licenses!) is the equivalent to about 2 seconds worth of regular income!
If this turns out the way Apple wants, and I sure as **** hope it does, then you can look forward to PRraw on an Arri and many many more, WITHOUT the need for an AtomOS recorder. Unless of course Apple strikes a deal of sorts to protect their partnership with AtomOS… which would REALLY suck! We'll see.

I am not sure if that is posted already
https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/08/16/apple-challenges-red-over-raw-patent-legitimacy/
Some interesting comments - speculation of course! - under the article.
It is good that Newsshooter exposes the matter, it is the only site I read regularly with some trust on them and I wouldn't like to be disappointed.
 

Come on. enough.
Taking delight in personal squabbles isn't going to do this thread any favours.
Let's contribute on the facts and focus on the topic.

That filmmaker Steven testimony seems fishy.  He claims to be talking about digital specs like he's reading the back of cake mix ingredients.  No one was talking about detailed specs that RED was using when the RED ONE came out in 2006-07.  It's as if he's reading the patient page word for word. 
ProRes RAW is Apple.  Seems like Apple doesn't want road blocks from RED or RED has already started fighting Apple in some way.  
Seems like you're right on the shitty codec comment.  That's seems to be why Atomos championed ProRes RAW out to their recorders.  And we all blamed the camera makers. 

I think that the price of RED's components is not at all the issue. The issues, as far as I can tell, are:
- RED has a patent on compressed raw recording, which many people believe is too broad, and is either an invalid patent, or an example of the failure of the patent system. RED's patent is so broad that other camera companies cannot even develop their own compressed raw formats--hence Blackmagic's Braw is "partially debayered." It's not just filmmakers, apparently Apple is currently challenging the patent's legitimacy.
- In the past, RED has threatened individuals such as Andrew with lawsuits to get them to be quiet. As written in the blog post, a private individual would be financially unable to counter the lawsuit, whether it's valid or not. Many consider this to be bullying.
- In regards to the Jinni Tech controversy, Mr. Royce has provided evidence that RED's claims of custom firmware and "made in the USA" statements are false. If Royce is right, then RED has broken the law and lied to its customers. Additionally, RED claimed that Jinni Tech stole intellectual property, which Royce has also disputed. Again, if Royce is right, then that is libel.
- The issue of overpriced components is really incidental to the whole story, despite being an exciting headline. The only issue with the pricing is that there may be false advertising--RED can charge whatever price they want, but only if they are honest about what they are selling.
That's my summary of events thus far, hopefully fairly accurately (feel free to set me straight).

As far as I'm aware, Arri doesn't have a culture of toxic masculinity.

Trying, just need contacts not their REPORT A TIP thingy
from personal view post that my anonymous source alerted me to APPLE VS RED :
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2
 
"One of RED ex workers with lot of contacts inside sent me small note.
It is panic inside RED now.
They are extremely afraid considering any REDCODE detailed explanation and camera hardware analysis now.
As RED camera detailed dissection by pro engineers can unveil similar margins.
Firm is in very unstable state, as any weakness will be used by lot of companies to fight back in the raw video patents fight. And this can kill RED. As company won't be able to make enough new gear without this patents."
 
ALSO CAN SOMEONE research all lawsuits against red or red against others?  WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?  THIS IS BONKERS.  Are we witnessing the collaspe of a billionare's company due to a person in the UK who makes youtube videos with silly mario bros coin sounds?   . TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION

Please forgive me as this is my first post. I have been reading eoshd for a while now and have replied to eoshd several times on twitter so it's about time I made an account. ?
Something to keep an eye on. Apple has a history of driving companies out of business that they want to consume, so apple pays less for them. They did it with dialog semiconductor. They did it with the qualcomm / intel lawsuit (gobbled up intel's mobile modems division at a steep discount). They did it with P.A. Semiconductor. It's debatable that they were going to do it to GT Advanced Technologies.
It is a stretch, but is apple interested in making cinema cameras? Do they want to rekindle the cinematographer relationship they undermined with the fcpx release / taking forever to update the mac pro? Do they want to push the new mac pro sales by getting into video again?
Maybe apple wants the new mac pro desktops to accelerate all raw camera footage, and RedRaw was somehow getting in the way.
There just so happens to be that apple-specific integrated FPGA accelerator option on the new mac pro that apple has so conveniently released zero information on.
Apple likes the look and feel of big brands. They randomly purchased beats for reasons unknown to many. Is RED their next acquisition? Would RED look good on Apple?
Granted, this is pure speculation, but I do wonder if Apple has any interest in stepping up and catering more toward the top tier cinematographer. Maybe a RED acquisition is that step.

Animosity towards RED management and the RED community is nothing new, it's been going on since Moses was a boy. A lot of it stems from the actions of said people. Filmmakers have a right to be upset about a patent that may or may not be valid, and is certainly something that many in the film community don't believe should exist. it may be legal to deny the struggling indie filmmaker access to internal raw recording, but it certainly isn't cool. It pays to remember we live and work in a community where one day you can be sleeping in your car, and the next you're making Hollywood features (James Cameron). If that turns out to be me, I know what cameras I won't be shooting with.

Phil I wrote you a private email.  I really do appreciate you and all your work for technical understanding with red.  I have owned 2 x the red one mx and 1 red epic mx.  I was very happy with these cameras.  I am interested in this matter because I'm a social activist.  I work on films for social change a lot. 
  I have no alterior motives besides that I have historically stood up to bullies and the red digital cinema is an abusive company.   Examples are for instance, tricking Andrew into signing a NDA.  Also that the president of it, in his final message on reduser, attacked two prominant cinematographers by name.  Not very nice.  Plus Jarrod swearing at people on it a lot.  Plus (I HAVE HEARD BUT HAVEN'T VERIFIED) - doxxing of Bruce of Jinninmag.  But hey, swearing publically is ok by the president of a company, but kind of weird.
Has my anonymous source said anything wrong?  He's just doing basic research we can all do on the internet.  
Again, please answer this:
Are you or were you at any point, "Hydrogen team leader" and giving a quote to a publication about the red hydrogen development? 
https://momofilmfest.com/red-hydrogen-one-3d-smartphone-films/
From article:  "The modules are to include a better-than-5K 2D sensor with a near-universal interchangeable lens mount (“damn near every lens ever made” says Hydrogen team lead Phil Holland)."

I am with Ed here, Phil, let's simmer down. Sorry for some of the things I've said. I think we can do better and have a better discussion about all this far away from the limelight and the heat of the moment. Feel free to stick around and to tell your side of the story though.
I don't have an anti-RED agenda. Am I pissed off? Yes. I am pissed off at what happened in 2010. It shouldn't have happened. In fact, I have a deep respect for what Graeme Nattress and the crew have achieved with these cameras. It's a shame to sully their effort by intimidating bloggers and users. Remember what happened with Philip Bloom's camera and the arguement with Jim? Again totally unnecessary behaviour. Many people would kill to lead a company as successful as RED. He needs to CHILL OUT.
If I have an "agenda" it is a full-on truth agenda. I am deeply concerned by the claims made by Jinni Tech.
The claims of propriety SSD components, etc.
"Made in USA".
Misleading the FTC and US Patents Office.
These things matter to customers.
As a blogger it's my job to inform them.
I want to know the truth.
Jim Jannard's past behaviour doesn't sit well with me, and not just his behaviour towards me. It isn't all about me.
It's about Michael Bravin.
About Sony.
Blackmagic.
Band Pro.
I want to find out the truth. That's all.
People deserve to know.
And If they try to shut me down I will go out fighting big style.
Thank you.

Yeah, Jarred presence would really be nice as said on these pages recently before.
Phil, it's not necessary to be a patent attorney or a tech lawyer as you hint to have an opinion on the matter. I have two to three decades of legal background in the media realm BTW aside (any/every) legal mantra in general and I am entitled to tell you this patent thing is not so complicated as it seems or as some side is invariably pulling their weight. That is, that FUD quote of yours applies here indeed, just not exactly where you see to fit it.
There will be who backs RED claims but also the opposite. Count on it. Let alone different jurisdictions to play their part.
Law is not an exact science for sure ; -)
- E.

You are trying to harass me.
Let's be honest.
I've seen the Red User agitation and it perfectly fits with the broader pattern of bullying RED-related behaviour.
I have evidence of it all over the place from past 8 years I have been in the camera industry. I'd encourage you not to join in yourself.
Nobody intends to disinform the public here. We are are trying to do quite the opposite, to get the facts out. Are we perfect? No. Is it a fast moving situation, understanding wise? Yes. Are we legal experts? No.
The situation is dynamic, our understanding is often not perfect, we're filmmakers, not highly specialised patent lawyers or legal people.
As a filmmaker, I don't have the 110% legal expertise to write the perfectly worded fucking headline on my personal blog first time, every time.
And you shouldn't be hanging me for it.
Especially not in the hornets nest of Red User where Jarrad can see it.
I'd welcome Jarrad on this forum, as you are also welcome, to put his side of the story in detail. To talk about facts. There is a lot to address and not just the Apple situation.
I would like to address the harassment directed at me in 2010 for instance.
And to explain the claims made by Bruce Royce (Jinni Tech).
I am all ears for a good explanation, and I mean that.

Hi Andrew, it's been a while, but I'm going to take that down that you have correctly changed the title of your piece from "APPLE SUES RED" to "APPLE v RED as lawyers petition for cancellation of RAW patent claims".
I'm not trying to agitate you man, I'm attempting to keep you out actual trouble.  You don't realize it, but you're being used and focused for somebody else's intentions.
Be well, thank you for correcting the title, I'm basically trying to fight against disinformation and FUD as it's harmful not only to RED but individuals as well.

It's true that Apple have filed a re-exam request with the Patent Office but it's everything he doesn't address which is important, such as trying to censor bloggers, or people who have different opinions, or allegedly doing what Jinni Tech explains in his videos, misleading customers, the FTC and the US Patent Office. I'd like to see Jarred address all that, and then we can see what happens with Apple and RED's patent.

---
Heads-up to some users. I am going to clean this thread. Nothing personal, but I would like it to flow and to be readable by an important third party tomorrow.

BREAKING:  Apple has sued Red over their patents on red code and their 4k raw camera
Here's info I have learned so far via anonymous source via personal view:  http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2?post#Form_Body
From apple vs red lawsuit
 
https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/docs/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Exhibit-1003-3-Ex1003___Expert_Declaration_Redcom_314.pdf
https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Petition-2-Petition_for_IPR_of_US_Patent_No_9245314/
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/52mk7rbgykdyk8v/AAB096zoYR9MoGSxVnUT4HgDa?dl=0
 
LEGAL DISCLAIMER:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION FROM WHAT MY RESEARCH IS - THESE are just my opinions and my research into the legal documents I have read above. 
 
 
 Apple’s claim:  Patents invalid because tech came from Mølgaard and Presler- video image processing can be applied to Presler’s video camera
Presler from Silicon Imaging cmos camera and redcode seems to possibly be modified from some existing tech already by Molgaard
 
 
Key figures in Apple vs Red lawsuit:
Ari Presler - Chief Tech Officer at Silicon Imaging
Claus Mølgaard, Vice President of Research and Development - Phase One now at Apple
 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ari-presler-a250ba4/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/molgaardclaus/
Seems red buys tech, patents as their own, then sues people for using it.

Trying, just need contacts not their REPORT A TIP thingy
from personal view post that my anonymous source alerted me to APPLE VS RED :
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2
 
"One of RED ex workers with lot of contacts inside sent me small note.
It is panic inside RED now.
They are extremely afraid considering any REDCODE detailed explanation and camera hardware analysis now.
As RED camera detailed dissection by pro engineers can unveil similar margins.
Firm is in very unstable state, as any weakness will be used by lot of companies to fight back in the raw video patents fight. And this can kill RED. As company won't be able to make enough new gear without this patents."
 
ALSO CAN SOMEONE research all lawsuits against red or red against others?  WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?  THIS IS BONKERS.  Are we witnessing the collaspe of a billionare's company due to a person in the UK who makes youtube videos with silly mario bros coin sounds?   . TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION

BREAKING:  Apple has sued Red over their patents on red code and their 4k raw camera
Here's info I have learned so far via anonymous source via personal view:  http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2?post#Form_Body
From apple vs red lawsuit
 
https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/docs/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Exhibit-1003-3-Ex1003___Expert_Declaration_Redcom_314.pdf
https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Petition-2-Petition_for_IPR_of_US_Patent_No_9245314/
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/52mk7rbgykdyk8v/AAB096zoYR9MoGSxVnUT4HgDa?dl=0
 
LEGAL DISCLAIMER:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION FROM WHAT MY RESEARCH IS - THESE are just my opinions and my research into the legal documents I have read above. 
 
 
 Apple’s claim:  Patents invalid because tech came from Mølgaard and Presler- video image processing can be applied to Presler’s video camera
Presler from Silicon Imaging cmos camera and redcode seems to possibly be modified from some existing tech already by Molgaard
 
 
Key figures in Apple vs Red lawsuit:
Ari Presler - Chief Tech Officer at Silicon Imaging
Claus Mølgaard, Vice President of Research and Development - Phase One now at Apple
 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ari-presler-a250ba4/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/molgaardclaus/
Seems red buys tech, patents as their own, then sues people for using it.

*CUE INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC*
We live in an imperfect world.  We're all humans.  Mistakes happen.  Maybe Patent office was starstruck like Andrew said.  It's PETER FRIGGIN JACKSON!  THE LORD OF THE RINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE HOBBIT!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!
That's why, in my opinion, we have the law to try to fix things up.  And always, always, change comes from the bottom up.  
It's every day people like Bruce from Jinnimag who change the world.  Not politicians.  Not billionares.  Whistleblowers, and people who stick their necks out.  The little guys.  And they do this maybe out of pride, or revenge, or god knows what, but they do it.  And with a silly video series on youtube with mario coin sound FX.