IronFilm

20 hours ago, Eno said:

I wander how other people can mage shooting video with so little video features on the Sony, Canon ILC cameras etc?

I wonder how on earth people managed to shoot with the GH4/GH3/GH2/GH1?

How did we manage to shoot a short film last weekend with only a Panasonic GH3?? :-o

Why on earth do I still own 2x Panasonic GH1 cameras :-o

11 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Nobody seen any. That´s supporting my findings. Most buyers of these three cams are much, much less into doing shortfilms than GH 1 2 4 shooters were. Not much GH5 content out there neither in that regard. A pity.

It can take a little bit of time for a good short film to planned, shot, and go through post. (thus there can often be a lag before we see plenty shot with a new camera)

But I'm certain plenty of short films have been done with the GH5. 

Heck, just a few weeks back I was 1st AC on a shoot with a GH5.

22 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

@Imackreath...just watch the video from the guy on the XL speedbooster you posted...I use the speedbooster XL with 3 APS-C lenses and IBS turned on and I don't get vignetting in 16x9 on even the Tokina 11-16 which gets down to 7.4 mm wide!...in other aspect ratios you may, but it's very simple to fix in post....Though I don't own the booster you're getting, you should have no problems, unless you're really stressing the IBS unreasonably and in that case a bit of crop in post solves the issue....personally I would always go with the widest FOV and  fastest booster and fix later where needed.

Nifty trick is you can use the Tokina 11-16mm at 16mm on full frame! :-o

Heck I have a friend who even uses it at 14mm and gets away with it for night/party shots.

I don't have either lens, but I believe OIS works?

Unfortunately no one seems to love APS-C :-( 

Aside from Fujifilm (and even they just brought out a medium format camera as well), and Pentax (who not only have medium format, but now are doing FF too). 

If it wasn't for Tokina (11-20mm f2.8), Sigma (18-35mm f1.8 & 50-100mm f1.8), and Tamron (18-400mm f/3.5-6.3) then Nikon DX / Canon APS-C would look very weak and pathetic indeed. 

One of the last big gaps remaining is a superzoom with a constant F4, such as the 18-105mm f/4 but for Nikon F / Canon EF mount instead. 
(and kinda wish there were DX lenses for 85mm / 150mm / etc.... if it meant they could be smaller/cheaper? Like the Nikon 35mm f1.8G which is a sweet bargain! More pancake lenses too! Which Pentax does for APS-C already)

Ideally a secondhand Panasonic G7

But more likely a secondhand Panasonic G6 or Nikon D5200 is what you should be checking out. 

On 11/9/2017 at 7:07 AM, Cippo said:

Raw video with magic lantern

 Forget about it. Not a realistic approach for most people to shoot always in ML raw.
And the 100D is not a good choice for ML raw anyway.

On 11/9/2017 at 7:07 AM, Cippo said:

Canon lens

So what? Nothing ultra super special about Canon lenses specifically anyway.


Go for Panasonic G80/G85 (or a secondhand G7, if on a very tight budget). 

Nice score on the MKE600! Only a student/videographer grade mic, but at that price you can't complain. 

If buying new, then I recommend the Aputure Deity as a low budget shotgun to go for. 

But yeah, with care some bargains can be found by hunting around secondhand.

On 11/11/2017 at 12:40 PM, rokkimort said:

We are just scared about powering it in the field

Get a tonne of V mounts

16 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

We never had this discussion about the A7/r/s.

I'd say the differences between the a7 vs a7r vs a7s was a lot more clear cut than Panasonic's range. 

It sucks the price of it.

Waaaay to close to the GH5, why not just get the GH5 instead?

& leaves this big empty price gap under it until you get to the G80, with nothing to fill this hole (like it should be).

Anyway, this certainly won't ever be replacing my Panasonic G6

4 hours ago, jax_rox said:

But that's exactly my point. If you think you're going to get a workable Alexa package for 'just' $10k you're sorely mistaken. You're probably looking at $500ea for V-Locks that will be viable. $250/filter for proper IRNDs. $5k for an appropriate head. Thousands for dovetails and base plates etc etc. 

I'm in agreement! :-) That was a point I made early on, that all the extra supporting gear adds a lot to the total cost (and adds to the complexity of the shoot too, you'll need an assistant or two). 

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

What is the weight of it?

Depends exactly on how it is rigged up in the end. 

But an Arri Alexa would usually tend to be a bit heavier than a RED ONE I think, only by "a few kilos" though? :-P

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I bought a used but very nice fluid head for the Red One + Rig and it certainly wasn't $5K. It wasn't even $500. 

Brand new then $5K for a fluid head isn't unusual. But if a person is on a tight budget, then there is no need to spend that much. I didn't. 

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

My guess is that you still can get some back on renting the camera out as well. 

 I wouldn't ever count on making much or even any money on rentals from an old Arri Alexa Classic. 
Especially if you're not already set up as a rental house, as then the overheads for that just won't make it worthwhile the return you'd get. 
 

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

At least around here where rental places are almost nonexistent.

That just makes it even worse, as it indicts there is likely very little profitable demand for it whatsoever. 

29 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

We're not talking about thousands of dollars per card. It's a few hundred extra dollars.

If you're using say four cards (and many Alexa packages might come with even more than that), then you could easily be talking about a thousand bucks. 
You might say it is "just a thousand dollars", but a few thousand here, another thousand there, and soon you're talking about serious money!

Plus it is useful and informative to think about this things for the future, as what if a new Arri camera with a brand new sensor gets announced tomorrow?
 
So that in a couple of years time from now, the prices of secondhand Arri Alexa Classics have tumbled down to just US$5K (not a totally unrealistic guess, it might be even lower!), then the question of spending an extra thousand dollars on SxS media or not will then become a relatively more important factor to consider. 

35 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

SD cards are dirt cheap, and something everyone already owns (especially if you say have a BMPCC already, or any 4K camera). Thus cost = zero. 

For a couple of secondhand SxS cards (the minimum you'd need for a day's shooting) you're looking at five hundred bucks:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/1314825/sony_2sbs64g1c_sxs_1_64gb_440_200_mbs.html

I think at least finding out if they really do or do not work is still an interesting question. as a person could say buy a couple of SxS cards (I already own two that came with my F3! Although only puny 16GB cards :-/ ) then have the rest be SD cards in adapters.

That way for the vast bulk of their work they'd use the SxS, but for those loooong days where you're rolling and rolling such as a long series of interviews all day long (and without a DIT to unload them along the way) you know you can expand your day's capacity by using SD cards in a pinch.

My bad, I linked to the wrong SxS cards which are not approved media, the minimum cards needed that B&H sell are five hundred dollars a pop:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197877-REG/sony_sbp64d_64gb_sxs_pro_d.html

Thus the appeal if SD can be used instead of SxS Pro cards (and the adapters I've seen do claim specifically to be replacements for SxS Pro series cards, but who knows as to the real truth). 

@DaveAltizer, when you next hire an Arri, as well as trying out the best  settings recording to a SD card, could you please also give a spin recording the lowest settings? (1080 ProRes 422 24p)

21 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

-you need a (not inexpensive) license to shoot 60fps
-you need a (not inexpensive) license to shoot ARRIRAW

On the upside, almost all these cheap secondhand eBay auctions I see do include the highspeed license already, and often arriraw too.

21 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

For the type of jobs that operators who would be looking at the $10k mark for a camera, the Alexa Classic is one of the least appropriate options on the market, despite the fact that it's got the best image on the market.

This is I think the killer blow against the $10K Alexa. 

For owner ops considering a $10K camera, then most of their work isn't going to be appropriate for the Arri Alexa, and they'd get a better ROI (return on investment) from having the likes of say a Sony FS7. 

But there is still a small niche of a niche of people who it might be appropriate for, and I think the op might be one of them. Perhaps. 

21 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

At most budget levels where an Alexa would be a consideration, you would generally have the budget to cover the hire anyway.

Yup, I feel it is a very small slither of the market which exists between "can rent an Arri (and probably wants the newer Mini anyway)" and "doesn't quite afford it but still is appropriate for an Arri shoot"

12 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Realistically, if you're looking at SD cards that are high speed enough vs SxS cards that are second hand, or the original ones - you're not really saving all that much money, and I'd rather just go for the proper cards.

SD cards are dirt cheap, and something everyone already owns (especially if you say have a BMPCC already, or any 4K camera). Thus cost = zero. 

For a couple of secondhand SxS cards (the minimum you'd need for a day's shooting) you're looking at five hundred bucks:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/1314825/sony_2sbs64g1c_sxs_1_64gb_440_200_mbs.html

I think at least finding out if they really do or do not work is still an interesting question. as a person could say buy a couple of SxS cards (I already own two that came with my F3! Although only puny 16GB cards :-/ ) then have the rest be SD cards in adapters.

That way for the vast bulk of their work they'd use the SxS, but for those loooong days where you're rolling and rolling such as a long series of interviews all day long (and without a DIT to unload them along the way) you know you can expand your day's capacity by using SD cards in a pinch.

1 minute ago, jax_rox said:

SD would be neither quick enough nor robust enough, I would imagine. Basic SxS cards are 400MB/s read and 350MB/s write. I was under the impression that you couldn't use the SD card adapters despite being able to use them on the F3 because of those kinds of limitations. I haven't considered it for a few years at least. XQD cards could potentially work, but I don't know that I'd really want to try it out on something mission critical.

You don't need them to be that fast to recorder ProRes HQ FHD. After all many many of us having been doing this for years and years now with SanDisk Extreme Pro cards. 

It is not like we're recording 4K 444 to them! (which QXD in SxS are capable of and are approved to work in a Sony F5/F55)

So where are the limitations:

The card itself not being fast enough: nope!
The adapter not being faster enough: nope! (no fancy electronics in there I believe, is just a straight passthrough connection I think)
Some other weird compatibility quirk: who knows.... is an open question which still needs to be answered!

2 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

Nailed it. For sure! I have the lenses, tripod, filters, etc...so all I would need is a few V mount batteries and some SxS Cards I would be set. 

Ah I imagine then you're quite ahead of the weight needs when it comes to tripods and other supporting needs for an Arri Alexa, so you won't need to be rebuying this? As that would then increase your needed budget significantly. 

What about lenses, are they a full set of PL lenses? As if they're SLR lenses then I'd email Leitax before buying the camera, so that you're 120% certain they have the adapter in stock! (because sometimes with these small stores and old stock, then they might list on their website as "in stock" but in reality they ran out and it never got updated. And you'll have a hell of time trying to track this down secondhand! Might be near on impossible)

2 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I rent Alexa often for high budget commercials and music videos I direct. Here are a few projects I directed that were all Alexa

You might be the perfect niche candidate for buying one then! Look at how often you're sure you'd be renting one over the next 18 months, would that come up to over half the cost of buying one? If so, then you're starting to build up a more solid case to at least consider buying one yourself. 

Just now, DaveAltizer said:

Nice!! Very clever. I’m not sure. You would think it would work? 

Seeing as you rent them now and then, please give it a go! 

The SxS adapter for SD cards is dirt dirt cheap, so zero harm trying at least! (and I'm sure you already own SD cards, but ideally try it with some fast ones such as Extreme Pro cards)

I just used the cheapest one on eBay from China, not this one (I purchased mine a while ago), but same kind of thing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SD-SDHC-SDXC-to-34MM-Express-Card-reader-SXS-adapter-for-sonyEX280-EX350/291799349554

Ditto the XQD adapter is quite affordable too (although you might not own Sony XQD cards? But is easy enough to ask around and find some to borrow I'm sure):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/840666-REG/Sony_QDA_EX1_SC1_XQD_ExpressCard_Adapter.html

49 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

Leitax makes a great Canon EF adapter for Alexa too that would be perfect for my CONTAX Zeiss kit. They have the Leitax mounts on them already. http://www.leitax.com/conversion/Cine/Alexa/index.html

What I'm curious about, but still haven't found an answer for is if SxS adapters for SD (or XQD) cards work in an Arri Alexa? Haven't ever yet found an answer for that. As if they are compatible (I use SD cards in their SxS adpater for my Sony PMW-F3) then that is a tremendous cost savings if buying a secondhand Arri Alexa. 

That is likely just dreaming

Arri Alexa has been around the $10K ish market on eBay for quite some time now, well over a year, I've pointed it a few times already. 

But is it a wise choice? For almost all of us in this forum the answer is: no.

Perhaps never been on a shoot with an Arri Alexa firsthand? But ever shot a multi day shoot with a RED ONE maybe? The experience would have a few similarities. You're dealing with a big, heavy, and power hungry beast. 

And $10K will be bit a tip of the iceberg, you'll need to upgrade your tripod/slider/jib/lenses/media/batteries, all at likely greater cost than you think. (for instance a quality tripod that can support a full rigged out Alexa isn't cheap! Can't use the $150 tripod you've used before with your DSLR. And this theme repeats itself over and over, what about costs for SxS media? Just to throw another example out there).

Also $10K ish is a *LOT* of money, you've got tonnes of other options. 

Let's look at a few other options:
Secondhand Sony FS7 (as THE MOST POPULAR midrange camera, you'd likely be able to find and do more work with this)
Secondhand Sony F5 (basically a "more professional" FS7)
New Panasonic EVA1 (want to take a bet on the next generation of midrange cameras? Might be this, maybe)
Secondhand Sony FS5 (very compact! Nothing with its features and compactness can touch it, well until the EVA1 comes out... )
New Kinefinity Terra 4K/5K/6K
New/secondhand URSA Mini 4.6K (original or Pro version)

All these options you could easily afford if considering the Arri Alexa, might even leave thousands of dollars spare left in your pocket!

And if you're a non-professional, then none of those should even be considered by you. Instead go for a Panasonic GH5/G80, JVC LS300, BMD Micro Cinema or a secondhand FS700/F3/BMPCC.

So who do I see the "cheap eBay" Arri Alexa being for?

I think they need to meet a few of these criteria (ideally all of them):

1) have the cash at hand and existing clashflow to justify such a very large purchase (don't be buying one without a business plan of some sorts beforehand! Run the figures, such as exactly that is the total cost vs what revenue you might get from it a minimum realistically speaking)
2) either are producing in house and/or have clients who will pay the premium vs just doing it with a camera that costs a quarter as much
3) don't mind the large weight and power requirements, because you either already own all the extra support or have budgeted for it. Plus your projects have the budget for the assistant(s) all this extra overhead will require. 
4) you're already renting on at least a somewhat semi regular basis an Arri Alexa
5) you don't already have some other big gaps in the filmmaking process which are more deserving of the funding. For instance, do you already have all the lighting and audio gear you need? (or hopefully, you always hire gaffers / sound recordists who come with their own gear)
6) have no need for 4K right now (or have another camera for that), and can get a return on the Arri Alexa before the demand for 4K becomes mainstream (which is tricky to predict when that will happen? Or has it already.... a risk to take!)
7) live locally to an Arri Alexa seller with a good price, or willing to roll the dice on shipping/importing an expensive and bulky item. (this is a bummer for people like myself in New Zealand! But if you lived in LA, this is something to stick in the pro column instead)

ProRes 442 or ProRes HQ?

There are (if I recall correctly) 4 settings in the Video Assist (from highest to lowest):
ProRes HQ
ProRes 422
ProRes LT
ProRes Proxy

And you can easily look up that info online:

For example:
https://www.digitalrebellion.com/webapps/videocalc

ProRes HQ 1080 24p = 77.42GB/hr

6 hours ago, redimp said:

And here's what the setup looks like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4rx3vlz1grrwga/Photo Oct 24%2C 16 57 05.jpg?dl=0

Also on Ursa Mini: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jhfdwqhvg1px4g/Photo Oct 24%2C 13 15 31.jpg?dl=0

Oh that doesn't look that bad, but get yourself shorter rails! :-o

6 hours ago, redimp said:

The set of PL glass I've got is the lomo OKS, 35, 50 and 75., I plan to use them with iscorama 36. Shot some tests of fs7, here's a sample vid 

If you're happy with the slog2 from a FS7 then you'll probably be ok with the same from the FS700 4K raw as well.

On 11/2/2017 at 3:13 AM, fuzzynormal said:

Yeah. It's easy to zoom in, set focus, then pull back to your shot. 

Takes less than a second. 

Or just punch in focus with your monitor. 

Also very easy. And doesn't need a parfocal lens!

On 11/4/2017 at 7:40 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Since the a6500 doesn't have a headphone jack, I guess the preference would be to record to the H1...  I mean, I GUESS that would be the best thing to do, right???

Well you have to record the mic to *something*?! No good by itself. 

However the Zoom H1 lacks any XLR inputs whatsoever, which massively limits your options for buying a quality mic. 

I go over recorder options here:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

In your shoes I'd suggest get at least a secondhand Tascam DR60D, they're so cheap it is almost free! :-P

 

On 11/4/2017 at 7:40 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Prefer something for low-budget interviews / commercials (most likely INDOORS but possible outdoors as well) where it will be "quick and dirty". Unlikely would be able to prep the room much. Most likely just a SINGLE person talking.  Also, I might use it for voice overs in a (relatively quiet) indoor bedroom setting.

 

If you're doing any paid work, then how come you have no budget for audio?!?! (as yes, $60 = "no budget")

The minimal kit I'd suggest to get as a broke as person entering into doing professional work for interviews/commercials would be:

Samson C02 / iSK Little Gem + Rode WS8 windshield (for when outdoors, as if positioned well and in a quiet enough environment then you can get away with the C02 outdoors for a while, but I'd recommend to buy the Aputure Deity as soon as you can) + Tascam DR60D (mk2 preferably, but a good deal on a mk1 is fine too) +  {plus shock mount, XLR cable, boom buddy, and boom pole, if you don't already have those}

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/reviews/1032461-isk-little-gem.html

https://www.iskproaudio.com/collections/microphones/products/little-gem?variant=4213264837

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks to everyone who suggested a Lav.

Yes, that is my PREFERRED method, but the boom mic would be plan b if I just can't get the Lav to be hidden enough or if it keeps getting ruffled by the talent.

Yes, it is smart to have two options running at once so each is a back up to the other. 

Especially if you're a one man band, so your focus is being split 100 different ways all at once.

And *essential* if you're not monitoring your audio! (which is the case if you running the lav into an H1 / phone)

15 hours ago, Shirozina said:

The rule in audio is that a cheap mic close to the subject is better than an expensive mic further away. I'd go for a Lav if you are on a budget. 

This!

Remember to pay very careful attention to your position of boom mic (and keep an eye out if the talent shifts around and moves off the optimal spot! You may need to reposition your boom mic mid shoot. This is why using a stand isn't simply a "set and forget" situation). 

Given your needs (S35 & PL on a budget) then I'd say the top suggestions would be: 
F3
FS700 (probably the current "sweet spot" for bang for buck in my eyes, US$2K ish secondhand + grab a secondhand Atomos Samurai for 4K output)
C300 PL (if you're fine with being stuck with PL 100% of the time, can't swap that mount!! On the upside, the PL versions do tend to sell for a little less than the EF versions secondhand)
URSA 4K / URSA Mini 4K / BMPC4K (these can be found crazy cheap secondhand, but you'd need to be 100% sure you can always feed it the light it needs and never ever go over 400 ISO)
a6300/a6500 (biggest downside... overheating, and no built in NDs. Perhaps do the DIY fan mod)
a7Smk1 (FHD in S35 mode, so don't bother with the a7Smk2 as you wouldn't benefit from the internal 4K in S35. Unless you got the a7R mk2 which can do S35 4K)
a5100/a6000 (1080 XAVC-S S35 for dirt cheap)
Samsung NX1
KineMini 4K (pity they're not selling the battle tested models any more: http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/kinemini-battle-tested/?lang=en And Kinefinity cameras only rarely come up for sale secondhand)
Kinefinity Terra 4K (kind blowing your budget wide open now.... but was tempted to include this anyway for completeness as is the most appealing one on the list. Not that much more than a C300 / URSA Mini? But it is a slippery slope.... now we're entering EVA1/FS5 territory! ha, probably best to ignore this one....)

I'd rule out the C300 PL & BMPC4K PL right away (and URSA 4K PL/ URSA Mini 4K PL to a lesser extent, which have some degree of flexibility around mount options... but mostly you're looking at just PL), unless you own a tonne of PL glass you can always use on everything, as being limited to **ONLY** PL is just too limiting in my eyes.  All the other cameras listed here have a heap of options when it comes to lens mounts, the world is your oyster! 

Realistically only the mirrorless cameras (or the Kinefinity) are an option on a gimbal, or maybe the BMPC4K/C300 on a larger sized gimbal (well, all of them could technically be used on a gimbal, but the size of one needed for some of them would be so big I'd say it is seriously blowing the budget of a no budget shoot). Heck, even a teeny tiny a5100 will likely need a decent mid sized gimbal once you've rigged it up with rails and using an anamorphic PL lens with it. 


So I'd look at how much of this shoot (and future shoots?) would be on a gimbal? If only a teeny amount, I'd go for for a  combo of Sony F3 / FS700 with an a5100/a6000 just for the gimbal shots. 

But if a larger amount will be gimbal shots, then get an a7S mk1 / NX1 / a6300 / a6500 instead as your main and only camera. 

On 11/4/2017 at 3:30 AM, redimp said:

Answering your question about the price, yes, the 5'' BMVA and F3 are $1500, no accessories, just a battery. It's in US, while i'm in Ukraine, so I'll have to add 35% as import tax to that, but considering local camera market has NO f3s or NO c300s – international shipping is my only option. 

I managed to find a few F3 for sale, and I live in a much smaller and more isolated country. 
Although Ukraine isn't part of the EU yet, you're still pretty handily located next to the rest of Europe, which massively opens up your options when sourcing gear. 
Am sure with persistence and luck you can find something relevant.

On 11/4/2017 at 3:30 AM, redimp said:

I have almost paid for it this morning, but somebody on facebook (yes, I spam in a couple groups there too) mentioned that I won't be able to de-squeeze anamorphic footage (for preview) with the 5'' BMVA, only with the 7'' 4k version, and again, it's more expensive, and I'm again on a fence. I have a cheap HDMI field monitor that does de-squeeze, but rigging F3 with a monitor AND a recorder would be stupid I guess. So again, I'm thinking if maybe I should get a c300 and just take the native monitor off and use the one I have for de-squeezing.

Is it unrealistic to have two monitors at once?! Not at all!

I'll often have two monitors on my F3, one for myself to operate with, and another on the opposite side (or handing from the rear) for the 1st AC to use or the director to view.