Danyyyel

7 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Ugly design... was hoping for something more akin to something like their FM2. Oh well, they're probably built for practicality, which will please many people. Unfortunately uses those noisy strap lugs *facepalm*

For pro work on the field, I would favor practicality and ergonomic over looks or older design usability style. Now it is just a start I guess there will be smaller more simpler model, more so in the apsc line.

By all account from Nikon Rumors, it will be very close in size and ergonomic to the Panasonic G9. 

So that's the latest teaser from Nikon, what it is confirming is that the size of the Mount will be huge, could fit a hasselblad 44x43 mm sensor. But I think this will give is much better IBIS for full frame camera and some unique lens like .95 Noct primes that they have patented. The more I think about this new Nikon Mirrorless Nikon camera is that the saying that Nikon might be late but when they come, they come with a bang. No one was guessing that this new mount would be that big and the more you think about it, the more it looks like a move that will last for another half a century at least. My guess is that Sony will be in big trouble, in this range of Mirrorless cameras and will have to see what Canon comes out next.

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I think it is too late for Nikon anyways.

There are still more Dslr sold than Mirrorless until now. The thing is Nikon had very very good profit this year with their downsizing and restructuring.  In their latest  fiscal year they said how the D850 impacted their profit as it was a huge success. Now coming back to the ML line, the more I look into it the more I see big big surprise. For a starter the new lens mount. The thing is gigantic, it is about the same than Fuji medium format. I am not saying that they would release bigger sensor that 35 mm, but that could be a possibility in the future. The most probable use will be for .9 lens or lets say .2 zoom, that would  put them in another category. The second thing is a much bigger sensor box where the sensor could move much more with ibis. Imagine a full frame camera with the same quality ibis a gh5 etc. I even think that the rear screen will be bigger than 3.2 from the size which we know  now is around d750. (but thinner). What I don't expect unfortunately is 10bit video, 4k 60 fps, log etc.

6 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

It will be interesting to see how successful this approach will be. Personally, I have my doubts.

Afterall, the problem 'with ergonomics that NX1 users liked' was that there simply wasnt enough NX1 users. The Leica SL - with its even larger than a DSLR approach - has not been a much of a success either. And even the Fuji X-H1 doesnt seem to have caught on with the digital stills crowd.

I tend to think that the 'superior ergonomics' crowd tend to really mean 'its mirrorless but feels like a DSLR'. I guess that is fine to appeal to Nikon core 'existing' customer base but I think it will have less appeal to the faster growing demographics which is women and under 40s.

Still it is probably the right approach for Nikon - it doesnt make a lot of sense for them to 'copycat' Sony and there is clearly demand out there for a mirrorless with a 'more pro body' (and hopefully it will be the end of demands for Sony to make their A7 bodies bigger.)

One doesn't  prevent the other to happen, but I think it will be DX format that will be much smaller and for good reason. That demographic you are talking about doesn't care about full frame camera, more so when it is 2k and above. These pocket-able camera market, will be fully satisfied aith a 20-24 megapixel DX camera and a kit lens. Give them a good all round zoom and all automatic function, more so if you have a no fuss dual pixel type autofocus for photo and video. The enthusiast and pro on the other hand will prefer better ergonomic, because as  you wil put some serious lens on even the Sony, size of body will be negligible and not pocket-able. In fact the contraty, while most Sony users will have to get some battery grip to comfortably handhold these bigger lens, the Nikon one will be just fine for most of them.

11 hours ago, 64mulford said:

Yes but in 3 years smaller sensor cameras like the GHx will be for 4k 120p, 12bit, maybe even raw, and 960fps in 1080. Spec-wise I think they'll always be a step ahead.

I believe the smaller sensor/m43 will always win for adaptability, IBIS, slow motion, higher bit rates etc, not to mention the gap closing on low light performance - all it takes is an optical focal reducer like a speedbooster to get a kick arse full frame (ish) camera, or use natives and instantly get incredible telephoto reach without breaking your back. This is how I currently work and its a dream. I'm a huge advocate for the m43 system despite being a Canon 5D shooter all my life and now even with an a7iii.

Yep, I don't dispute that logic that smaller sensor will be easier to get higher readout thus higher frame rates etc because of heat for example. But the day the m 4/3 will do 960 fps the FF will do 480 fps, 10 bit vs 12 bit etc, all these will have diminishing returns. Again for photography, M43 is not catching up on FF, even in 3 years I cannot see a 12-14 megapixel M4/3 competing with 24-28 megapixel FF in any way because it will still be very low for photography. The Nikon D850 also has very good apsc video mode, instantly your zoom get 0.5X more. For example with a 24-120 F4 lens, instantly you have a 24-180 F4 lens which would equate to 24-180 F 2.8 or F2 in terms of M43 esthetics. The last thing is AF, will you get it with a speed booster attached. Those are some of the challengers that the M43 cameras will have to face.

I think the CaNikon entry in the full frame and surely Apsc mirrorless camera market will have a big impact on Sony. They where alone in the full frame and most Apsc market, making some Canikon people switch as they had no other alternatives if they wanted full frame mirrorless. Now Sony wont get those switch anymore, secondly they will face formidable opponents who have to my opinion much better ergonomics and image quality (mainly colour science). That Nikon Z mount size might itself be a big problem to Sony, if one or the two theories behind it being to able to launch 0.9 prime lens or that the sensor can move much more for much better IBIS, they might even lose sales from Nikon for example. I am speculating here but Nikon has patented the 0.9 NOCT lens.

1 hour ago, 64mulford said:

I don't think Panasonic should jump on the FF bandwagon. I think their smaller sensor is their unique selling point. The GH5s sensor has proven you can squeeze high iso/low noise performance out of a smaller sensor and this is only the beginning really. I think the smaller sensor allows them to push video tech faster - like the GH5 have 4k60p, who knows what is capable in the GH6 but I think the FF cameras will always be playing catch up to the smaller sensors cameras in that regard simply because they can process that information faster. Chuck a speedbooster on and problem solved.

I'm shooting with a GH5/speedbooster XL and a new A7iii with mc-11 - both using my canon L glass. Much prefer the GH5 for video. that 10bit is amazing.

What Panasonic should be doing is keeping their m43 mount cause there is some amazing compact glass for it but do what JVC did and chuck a Super 35 sensor in there. Imagine that with a speedbooster. All the benefits of a faster, smaller sensor but full frame look.

The problem with the gh5s is that it is only 10 megapixel. I mean for video it might be fantastic, but for photography it is just too low. In 3 years time max, all the full frame ML cameras from Nikon, Sony and Canon will have at least 60 fps 4k and 10 bit and 120 fps in 1080p. So they will fullfill 99% the need of all users, but they will still retain all the other advantages of full frame camera in term of low light/resolution etc.

11 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

If Canikon knock it out of the park I don't see why anyone would consider m4/3 anymore. The Gh5 and Em1 II are already large cameras and there isn't so much to be gained in terms of size unless you are talking about telephoto lenses. The new nikon mirrorless looks to be diminutive in size so I don't think it will be too much of a consideration for people. I think panisonic and olympus either go full frame or die a slow death. Especially with full frame cameras dropping in price. 

We are seeing the same problem with the fuji and the xh1, being in practical terms more expensive than the a7iii. The thing with fuji is that their lenses are quite expensive, especially considering they are apsc lenses. For example, their 100-400 is priced equivalently to canon's superior and pro level 100-400. Their range at the long end isn't good either.    

 

 

Exactly, more so that Canon and Nikon will also have a full range of Apsc mirror-less camera that will start like Nikon line of D3300 to D7500. In fact mirrorless cameras are easier and cheaper to do as you have much less mechanical part optics etc. Nowadays you can get a Nikon full frame D750 for about $1600. The Sony A3 and comparable Nikon/Canon bodies will be about same price in two years. It will be a hard sell to sell any M43 cameras at more than 1k. 

I just saw that this pelicle mirror adapter patent was done in 2013, so it is quite a long time ago and many things might have changed since then in terms of tech. There surely will have some for of compromise for older lens and I think at least the Nikon d5-d850 will have at least another generation for highend shooters that need crytical Af and will give Nikon a good 5 to 10 years to complete their Nikon Z mount lens lineup.

4 minutes ago, Django said:

But the adapter has been officially announced..so legacy lens support is a given, and i doubt Nikon won't have it ready for launch, or near launch. i'm more interested however  in details of this said adapter, the revealed patent with mirror inside doesn't sound like ideal solution as far as rendering. i've still got a few AI-S, AF-D & G primes i'm quite fond of so definitely curious about the adapter myself..

They had the patent with the pelicle mirror and its own AF module, might be a bit costly. I asked if it was needed as the Canon M50 doesn't have one and use its dual pixel to focus and I was told it didn't work well wit older lens.

6 minutes ago, Django said:

actually that post does not fare well at all for Nikon (USA) as if you read carefully: the camera still has never been in stock at any of the major online camera stores. 

it's not about hot demand but simply Nikon USA never being able to distribute the camera to major retailers! lotta US folks cancelled their pre-order ages ago and moved to other systems as a result.. very strange as D850 has been well stocked here in the EU.
 

I think they are prioritizing where they get more money, the price is easily 10%+ before tax in the EU.

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not to mention the release describing the mount adapter being 'in development', which is fine as the cameras still are too of course, but if that's a hint that its coming after launch then that wouldn't be ideal.

And by not ideal I actually mean pretty rough.

If the launch ends up being two not inexpensive consumer cameras and a small handful of lenses in the new mount with no support for their existing back catalogue then they'll have a real problem I think.

On the basis that they must also know that then maybe it suggests the actual availability of these cameras is further away than people expect. 

We'll know at Fotokina I suppose whether they've made this announcement as a prelude to an imminent release of the products or primarily to lay down a marker against what Canon will be showing there.

Nikon in development press release are always a bit misleading because it always precede the launching date by only one month, happened to the d5, d500, d850. So the cameras, lens and I am sure the adapter is already finalized and ready to go. The only question about the adapter is will it be until what generation of F mount lens will it be compatible. Like will it have screw on motor or not. Nikon knows that the adapter is crucial for it ML camera launch. A good to very good lens adapter will make them jump from last in the class to first in the clas in terms of lens choice.

4 hours ago, scotchtape said:

Still have Nikon Trinity (Tamron though, but they have sweet vc, never found the Nikon's to be worth it and I owned all of them) and use d750 for photos. Really hoping it competes with the Sony stuff and manages 4k60! Nikon flat was very good

 

Not going to preorder based on the qc of last several generations of Nikon stuff (d750 is the only camera I've ever owned that has needed service, and one of mine has a sticky shuttern AFTER getting on replaced, which they refuse to fix unless I pomy up more $$$)

 

Will definitely pick one up if it matches Sony and does 4k60!

The larger mount is a very good news for Ibis, Sony is garbage compared to Panasonic in that area. Really wish they had made the emount larger for better ibis.

 

You might have a winner with the bigger mount for ibis, that could be why they choose a bigger mount so that the sensor can move a bit more.

1 hour ago, tupp said:

If Nikon is smart, the new mount will have a shorter flange focal distance than the E-mount/EF-M-mount/Fuji-X-mount.

That's not knowing Nikon and in its history. They take pride in there lens design and heritage and they consider them foremost as an optical company. They don't want you to adapt Sony or whatever company lens, they want their native lens  on their camera. The worst thing is that they have already adapter for the Nikon fmount and you to use their lens or to a lesser extent Nikon mount compatible lens. If the adapter is good, it might be better in some way as you could adapt 50+ years of Nikon glass at worst for them all the zeiss, tamron, tokina sigma lens that can use their advance metering and auto focus.

42 minutes ago, Django said:

I got a good feeling on this one.. I just hope for our sake they don't drop the ball as usual on video features.. imagine 10-bit, N-Log, HFR & good AF. would be game over as far as i'm concerned!

I have been a bit disappointed by Nikon video feature that I am a bit dubious. My benchmark would be a Nikon D850 level video spec. So no 10 bit and log profile. But I guess a very good autofocus, peaking etc will give a very good all rounder, with very good 4k and 1080p, with great low light (even better with the 24 megapixel model) and above all else Nikon colours. In overall a very very good photo/video hybrid camera but spec sheet wise not the top of the line.

In fact the big lens mount might be to put this camera in a league of its own, not the technology of the camera but the lens. As many are suggesting on Nikon Rumors is that the teaser is hitting about very very good low light capability and not about the camera itself but the lens capabilities it will give Nikon like these 0.9 and 1.2 lens patent. https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/07/new-nikon-patents-nikkor-52mm-f0-9-and-36mm-f1-2-full-frame-mirrorless-lenses.aspx/

Latest updated rumors https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/09/additional-nikon-mirrorless-full-frame-camera-specifications-af-and-more.aspx/

Over 400 AF points, not sure about the exact number, it should be somewhere between 430-450. The AF is supposed to be very fast.

The rear LCD screen is tiltable just like the Nikon D850.

There is a second LCD screen on the top of the camera (just like the Fuji X-H1 pictured above)

My understanding is that there is only one selection wheel on top of the camera.

The camera's "prism" with the EVF is a bit less angular/smoother when compared to the Sony a7.

I can now confirm that the new 24-70 mirrorless full frame kit lens will indeed be f/4.

I see 8K listed in the technical specifications, but it is hard for me to get the translation - I don't think it's for video, maybe 8K time-lapse just like the D850?

The new Nikon mirrorless camera will have a nice finish and a very comfortable grip. The overall handling/feeling is supposed to be excellent - this is coming from somebody who is/has tested the camera.

Most likely no built-in flash.

The promo materials should include dancers.

Potential names: Z300 and Z500 (not confirmed at all, could be just a guess).

I was thinking it would be at Photokina in sep/oct this year. As a Nikon shooter, I don't care that much anymore, I will get the BMPCC4k to complement my Nikon photo gear. If they come with some killer apsc hybrid, with some great auto-focus I will consider it to complement the rest.

On 4/21/2018 at 1:26 AM, Kisaha said:

The latest moves from BM shows that they have learned from their mistakes and they are moving to the right direction in all fronts.

The fact that they are searching now how to manufacture the camera is not very optimistic for early September delivery.

It's not a simple thing to manufacture a camera, it takes a lot of components to be bought from different sources and a lot of logistics. It may take them a little more, but in the end I believe they will deliver.

@mercer maybe gave me a couple of good reasons to wait a little bit longer and not pre-order! Of,course open box buys are very rare in Europe, and the price is already very low, I wouldn't mind a brand new one, but I wouldn't like to be a beta tester.

People always take some CEO or sales person word for granted. Do you think that such a company is only now looking at who is going to manufacturer in six month when they must have started the design at least a year ago, more so when they already announced the delivery date and price. I am sure they already have half a dozen manufacturers with at least quotes and availability manufacturing capacity on the table. My only concern is that they chose to go to some new (at least to BMD) material, that could cause some problem, they also have 5+ years of camera manufacturing behind them now.

On 4/20/2018 at 4:27 PM, DBounce said:

After watching some video from this camera I wonder if any of the promised features will be dropped? 

That video looked mighty jerky. Granted, it was off the prototype model, and we do not know the data rate of the card that was used. But I would not be surprised to learn that some features will be cut.

BMD didn’t want to go on the record about quite a bit when I was there. Which actually concerned me, as most everyone else I spoke to was willing to.

You have been very dismissive of that camera until now, I remember you talking about the motion cadence not being good, perhaps we got the answer with the stolen footage, that the camera is not final by all means (dropping frames etc) and better wait to make any conclusion. In the end, I don't see them dishing any of the spec features, some spec might miss some target, like the DR might be 12.5 rather than 13 for example. But what reassures me most is the Sony chip, these are very mature tech, i don't think we will have like balck sun, fpn etc.

I will just play with some png, a normal grade

35 minutes ago, Federico Res said:

Here is the footage:

BMPCC4k footage

This is from a pre-production camera, keep that in mind. Enjoy

Too big for me Thanks anyway for sharing it

On 4/11/2018 at 9:44 PM, jonpais said:

Here's an interview with Bob Caniglia of Blackmagic holding the Pocket 4K and Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8.

 

These bloggers have zero journalist skill, they keep asking 10 times the same question, if you are not the first on a news, take your time and try to ask different question or even if you can't record from the camera you have a big 5 inch display that you can zoom in. Take that fucking camera and comment at least what you are seeing. Take for example rolling shutter, I mean it is so easy to pan right left and have at leat an impression about rolling shutter, but until now zero. I don't know if he is an actor or what, it is as if he is chocking, when asking the price at least 3 times, as if the whole world didn't know it two days before.

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Well, I am a scientist, and the idea of using tools intended for home use in a professional environment and expecting them to perform like professional tools is ludicrous IMO. That is not to say that you can't use them, sometimes for the odd thing it might be convenient and cost effective, but if I am going to do something routinely where I need reliable performance I get the proper equipment for the job. Why cut corners and take chances with stuff that might not hold up or be completely effective because it was designed for a completely different occasional use in a home setting? When you are working time is money and you want your equipment to always work and always work properly. 

I have one of these Kitchenaid mixers at home, which is fine for the odd baking I do on occasion, but there is NO WAY that I would depend on it if I was running a commercial operation using it 8 hours a day. For that I would buy a proper commercial mixer, because the home mixer would probably last a few weeks before burning out.

This is kind of how I see these arguments fretting about consumer cameras being "not good enough" for professional jobs. News flash, they were not designed for professional use, they were designed for home use. If you are shooting video professionally, then buy the professional tool for the job. IMO any "professional" who wants to use them as professional tools is probably not quite as professional as they might want to be. It does not mean that they are not doing good work, but clearly they have difficulty making a living doing their job if they have to scrimp like that to do work.

So go back to your science, in the artistic world 1+1 doesn't necessarily make 2. By the way raw or even prores in 4k camera was unheard of in 99.9% of pro camera 5-10 years ago.

2 hours ago, mercer said:

I fervently agree. I am as excited as hell for this camera... even though I’ll wait until they’re readily available to buy one.

I was just trying to make a point that it’s possible that this camera’s specs, specifically high ISO, won’t live up to the expectations. These, all BM, cameras have quirks and issues like magenta casts, fixed pattern noise, black hole sun, deadlines not being met... so I hope people are prepared for this instead of jumping on board and expecting something this won’t be and then spreading hatred because their unrealistic expectations weren’t met.

I mean, hell there are already posts questioning and hoping for great AF... I can tell you right now... it won’t be good. 

I think speculation are off the chart, this clearly doesn't seems to be the same sensor tech used by BM since now. Them advertising +1600 ISO is a massive change from their camera before this one. Many thing points at a Sony sensor and we know what we can expect a bit from Sony sensor's and it would be much better that what was the case from previous BM cameras. So I say, better wait before applying some general rule to previous BM cams and workflows.

Playing with the file, nice

2 hours ago, Mokara said:

Can't shoot much stuff with a shell containing no electronics inside

So he faked the shot of the audience from the external drive that he ingested and played back on Davinci. There are tens of videos now from the camera at the show with at least live view, why you don't go there and find out those liars Mr Sherlock.

44 minutes ago, mkabi said:

It makes all hybrid/DSLR cameras prehistoric (dinosaurs). But I think its most relate-able to GH5 because of the m43 sensor and price is always a factor.... 

I would not say that until it has a Canon or at least a Sony phaze detect autofocus and I would add a lighter long gop codec. Not everyone will want 100's gig of data and continually manual focusing. But for filmmakers and docu it will trash anything around its price range.