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Could this be the perfect sensor for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera Mark II?

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

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Above is a new scientific sensor by European company CMOSIS which has amazing potential in a cinema camera.
  • Super 35mm / APS-C sized
  • 4K raw at 12bit (90fps) and 10bit (150fps)
  • 4:3 anamorphic 4,096 x 3,072
  • Global shutter
This part is ready to be mass produced and is available off the shelf.

#2
andy lee

Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:37 PM

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I hope they are reading this!!

Andy Lee
LTI Films
Tecnoir

'If it looks good , it is good!'


#3
JHines

Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:42 PM

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Pretty please!!

#4
TC

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:42 AM

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Blackmagic have already stated publicly that they don't have the capacity to develop two cameras at the same time. As they are still ironing out a few kinks in the first version, I doubt they will start thinking about version two until next year. But it doesn't have to be Blackmagic who uses this chip. After the Cinema camera's announcement there were surely a lot of other companies thinking, "why didn't we do that?"

There is Convergent Design, Atomos, and AJA who all make hardware recorders - basically a camera without a sensor. They clearly all have the right expertise in high-speed signal processing. There is also Matrox, who don't make a recorder, but have a large range of video encoding hardware. Perhaps there is also another rich enthusiast like Jim Jannard, who realises that the parts you need to build a high-end video camera are largely commoditised and are available to order right now. All you need is to put them together in a box with a lens mount.

#5
Xiong

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

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Oooooh this is exciting. We're starting to turn that corner already, If this comes into fruition and Black Magic does pick this up, RED market might be the next target from them. But then again we dont know the price of this sensor or even if Black Magic will jump in, hope they are looking at this though. Im sure the big guys are already looking into this right now, for our sake lets hope it stays within the under 10K market to be able to get this thing running fully without having to need all sorts of components to get this running.

#6
Andrew Reid

Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

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There is Convergent Design, Atomos, and AJA who all make hardware recorders - basically a camera without a sensor. They clearly all have the right expertise in high-speed signal processing. There is also Matrox, who don't make a recorder, but have a large range of video encoding hardware. Perhaps there is also another rich enthusiast like Jim Jannard, who realises that the parts you need to build a high-end video camera are largely commoditised and are available to order right now. All you need is to put them together in a box with a lens mount.


Very good point. If there is to be a challenge to the status quo it will be from exactly these kind of people.

#7
Tzedekh

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:09 AM

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Actually, the dynamic ranges will probably be somewhat less than the 60-dB and 90-dB figures indicate. Additionally, the 90-fps (12 bits) and 150-fps (10 bits) rates are half those originally specced for the CMV12000 about 2 years ago. The throughput of the sensor has apparently been cut in half.

The Apertus Axiom will reportedly use this sensor.

#8
FilmMan

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:12 AM

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You noticed this. Maybe Leica will come out with a 4K video camera? BMC could surprise. Or a rogue company? Let's make our own? How about GoPro?

#9
FilmMan

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:14 AM

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http://apertus.org/en/axiom

#10
FilmMan

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:26 AM

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Or perhaps Kineraw???

Or

Couldn't BMC take over apertus, and fast track a 4k camera??? Don't be surprised.

#11
FilmMan

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

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Enjoy.


#12
galenb

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:12 AM

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CMOSIS, who are supplying Leica their cutting edge full frame sensor in the new M rangefinder (I suspect it is this chip, the CMV20000) say the sensor is currently sampling.

It couldn't be that one because as stated here:
http://www.eoshd.com...-von-oeynhausen
The sensor in the new M is a CCD.

#13
Tim

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:26 AM

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Knowing nothing about camera engineering, I ask: would it be IMpossible to put this sensor into a current BMC?

#14
Andrew Reid

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

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It couldn't be that one because as stated here:
http://www.eoshd.com...-von-oeynhausen
The sensor in the new M is a CCD.


It isn't a CCD. It is a CMOS. Interview clearly states that in first half. Are there any typos you are spotting?

#15
galenb

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:37 AM

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Ahhh. No, that was a typo in my head. Sorry. I must have transposed CCD and CMOS in that interview.

#16
zaz

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

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Whatever camera this is in wouldn't even need any capture API. Just the ability to feed hd-sdi/hdmi. It could just be a simple camera head. No internal power even. Put a 1/4-20 on the bottom, a lens mount on front, and uncompressed hd out the back. Would save gobs and gobs of development money. And bring the retail price way down. You could even do away with most physical controls and simply use a smart phone for that (a bit extreme, i know) There is no reason a camera needs to be responsible for anything but the feed anymore. Everything else can be modular. Anyone remember the silicon imaging s3? Or even the Alexa m or mobile or whatever?

Imagine how cheap a camera with no power solution, no recorder, no screen, practically no housing, could be. Let people part that stuff out to the specifications they need/want. Most do anyways. (Meaning they already have the hardware required to run a rig like this.

I'm very excited to see what the axiom campaign will look like and what kind of numbers they will need to pull to make it happen.

#17
cameraboy

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

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bmc sensor is much better than CMV12000...
it uses same Dual Gain Architecture technology as arri alexa sensor (http://www.arri.com/...xas_sensor.html ) and even in global shutter mode beats CMV12000 in DR ...
http://www.cmosis.co...oducts/cmv12000
https://docs.google....fcHpGpQFhB6bgnQ

#18
Leang

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

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nerds. lol

#19
cameraboy

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

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Ignorance ...
lol

#20
Tzedekh

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

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Or perhaps Kineraw???


The KineRAW S35 already sports a 4K sensor but currently records at a maximum of 2K.




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