The Panasonic S1 II pricing is wrong, and so is the entire product strategy since 2018

[MrSMW]

Agree ^ mostly...

The only area really lacking for me is the space between 100-200mm where there's a bit of a gap.

Between Sigma & Panasonic themselves, they have it covered with primes ie, for most peoples needs, most of the time, those f1.8's.

Sigma offer their f2's which have a bit more 'character'.

Sigma also do the f1.2/1.4's and Leica do their stupidly priced offerings.

The zooms are all very good. In fact I can't really think of a bad L Mount lens other than that stoopid f8 thing they launched with the S9.

The only thing missing for me is a either a longer sibling to the Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 (such as a 45-90mm f1.8) and/or a rival to the Sony 50-150mm f2. A 50-135mm f1.8 with internal zoom would be appreciated and if Sony can do the slightly longer 50-150 with f2, then Sigma could probably pull off an f1.8.

I know the Samyang 35-150mm exists but it's not got the greatest rep and has been hit with the ugly stick. Or is the ugly stick.

As things stand, I am probably going to trade my 35mm and 50mm for the Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 because although it's obviously bigger and heavier than either, it doesn't require a choice of lens but a twist of the wrist and optically is just as good based on my experience.

I don't really like the 18mm though. It has a great rep but for me it's too wide. I don't really like anything wider than 28 but it has its uses in certain situations, so I need to keep it.

It's just above 50 I have the issue... I

I don't want or need a 70-200 but something within that 50-150 would be so much better (as long as it's not the Samyang and preferably does not extend when zooming) but I'd settle for even 90mm as above.

[John Matthews]

45 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Agree ^ mostly...

The only area really lacking for me is the space between 100-200mm where there's a bit of a gap.

Between Sigma & Panasonic themselves, they have it covered with primes ie, for most peoples needs, most of the time, those f1.8's.

Sigma offer their f2's which have a bit more 'character'.

Sigma also do the f1.2/1.4's and Leica do their stupidly priced offerings.

The zooms are all very good. In fact I can't really think of a bad L Mount lens other than that stoopid f8 thing they launched with the S9.

The only thing missing for me is a either a longer sibling to the Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 (such as a 45-90mm f1.8) and/or a rival to the Sony 50-150mm f2. A 50-135mm f1.8 with internal zoom would be appreciated and if Sony can do the slightly longer 50-150 with f2, then Sigma could probably pull off an f1.8.

I know the Samyang 35-150mm exists but it's not got the greatest rep and has been hit with the ugly stick. Or is the ugly stick.

As things stand, I am probably going to trade my 35mm and 50mm for the Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 because although it's obviously bigger and heavier than either, it doesn't require a choice of lens but a twist of the wrist and optically is just as good based on my experience.

I don't really like the 18mm though. It has a great rep but for me it's too wide. I don't really like anything wider than 28 but it has its uses in certain situations, so I need to keep it.

It's just above 50 I have the issue... I

I don't want or need a 70-200 but something within that 50-150 would be so much better (as long as it's not the Samyang and preferably does not extend when zooming) but I'd settle for even 90mm as above.

I guess it depends on what you’re looking for. I’ll give Panasonic credit for their primes — the other makers feel more like wannabes than real contenders when it comes to consistent size, look, feel, and output. Canon seems unwilling to let third-party manufacturers do what they want, probably out of fear. Sony, on the other hand, seems to cripple third-party lenses for no real reason. Nikon offers some 1.4 primes, but they’re a bit all over the place — not ideal if you’re looking for a cohesive lineup.

Only Panasonic has released a true roadmap of lenses, much like a publisher releasing a series of books that all share the same design and cover style. Other manufacturers are putting out books of all different shapes and sizes. That’s fine for the average user, but if consistency is what you’re after, it’s hit or miss.

Sony is all over the place — they started with a mount made for APS-C! Meanwhile, Panasonic and Leica developed one of the more recent mounts, designed specifically for full-frame. Leica has their set of APO primes — arguably the best lenses they’ve ever made — though at a crazy cost. Panasonic and Sigma, on the other hand, are pushing out lenses at a relatively fast pace, including some truly unique focal lengths that have never been done before, like the 20–200mm.

[KnightsFan]

I'm a huge outlier here, since my lenses are exclusively either manual cinema lenses, or lightweight travel lenses. For the former, I still pick EF mount. For the latter, I'm not sure anyone makes anything quite like the 18-40. I love it.

[MrSMW]

I forgot the Sigma 28-105mm f2.8…

Combine that with the S1RII in hybrid zoom mode and there are two very useable crops the first being 147mm which if memory serves is around 18mp the second being 210mm at around 12mp so both very useable for stills use.

The Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 also makes for a very compact lens and with the same crop factor, 98mm and 140mm.

Shoot Jpeg + raw, the crop only applies to the Jpeg…I think but with video, it’s a proper punched in crop.

4k only though. Doesn’t work in 6k or 8k modes.

As things currently stand…but anything could happen within the next 6 months 😉 my plan is to pick up the 28-105 as an outdoor lens to complement the 28-70 as my indoor lens (mainly stills but some hybrid use each) and the new LUMIX 24-60mm f2.8 purely for video on my other S1RII.

That latter lens will be more like a 29-73 with the combo of settings I am using (5.9k 50p + standard electronic IBIS).

Perfect focal range for my run & gun needs 👌

[Phil A]

19 hours ago, John Matthews said:

It's not that bad in L-mount. We now have a small 40mm F/2 from TTartisan, but it could be better. Most of the lenses from Panasonic make a lot of sense- a full set of clinical 18, 24, 35, 50, 85, 100mm lenses at f/1.8 (except for the 100mm). They're the same size, rendering, in-camera corrections, usage and everything you'd expect. No other camera maker has that. The zooms are also great. Sure, no Tamron, but should that be the deal-breaker?

Personally, I'm no longer going for "clinical and sharp". Give me anything with character- that's what I want; set yourself apart a little. Clinical = boring in my book. Still, I have many of the primes, but I almost always take out the vintage stuff when shooting for myself (not a pro).

Also, mark my words, L mount will win in the end with lens selection.

What lenses are you after?

To be honest it's the less than stellar but fast & small third party lenses that I crave. For Fujifilm you have the Viltrox f/1.4 & f/1.7 primes. For Sony you have a ton of smaller lenses like the 24 f/2.8, 35mm f/2.8 or 40mm f/2.5 but also again third party AF lenses from Viltrox, TTartisan, etc.

I realize that the 1.8 primes from Panasonic are great, but they're not checking my criteria, I'd prefer them optically a bit worse but smaller with more character.

I remember when the vision for mirrorless cameras was that you could get lenses at the same performance at a smaller size... and now nearly everything that releases is a really big, technically ideal lens at a high price. I used to like lenses like the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM which were okish but had interesting rendering over the great but huge Sigma 50mm 1.4. Guess I'm just an old man yelling at clouds. 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Phil A said:

realize that the 1.8 primes from Panasonic are great, but they're not checking my criteria, I'd prefer them optically a bit worse but smaller with more character

Lightly sand the front element and smear a bit of Vaseline around the edge et voila, instant character!

I know what you mean though Phil. They are optically quite clinical and the most boring things to look at for sure.

For video AF, they are the best option though.

For a margin more character, the f2 Sigmas have it at the expense of a tiny bit of AF.

Then there is the rest of the stuff where it’s trading or losing AF for character gain.

I personally prefer to have the better starting point and add character in post but then some character is inherent in the lens so…

There’s always a trade off!

That new 40mm f2 might just be the sweet spot…

[MrSMW]

There’s also another camera in the LUMIX lineup that barely anyone talks about and that is the S1IIE.

I overlooked it myself when it was announced as I already had S5II’s and the S1II and especially S1RII looked a whole lot more interesting…and arguably are, unless…

Price + you prefer the updated body and a few other specs over the S5II and in the UK, a couple of places such as WEX and Park are doing them at £500 off, ie, £1800 none grey import.

Compared with my S9 which I have now decided to replace (it isn’t robust enough and I’ve had too many niggly issues with it trying to use it as a pro tool) and the S1IIE seems to make the most sense to me.

LCD is in line with the body and not sticking out of the side. Hurrah.

MUCH better built than the S9 but hardly a chonker.

6k 50/60p in 2:4-1 CinemaScope and before you spit your dummy out, drop that on a 16:9 timeline, it’s about a 1.3x crop and on a 2:1 timeline, only about a 1.1x crop compared with the S5II/X with it’s 1.5x crop. 

And you can do that log gop 420 300mpbs or 422 all intra 800mpbs which is not tooooo large.

No it’s not open gate and I was all for open gate until a few weeks ago and the end of another season when I came to 2 conclusions:

1: Divorce stills from video in the same unit and go back to dedicated stills or video units.

2: Use something else for the fast turn around social stuff such as a Pocket 3.

Not pushed the button yet and things may change, but I think an S5IIE could become my run & gun unit with S5II on sticks and either a single or pair of S1RII’s for stills, dependent on a set of primes or a single all in one 28-105mm f2.8.

I really can’t be arsed with any large scale brand flips, but swapping a body and a couple of lenses is pretty straightforward and low cost.