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Andrew Reid

Winter’s Mirror – Sony A7S and Atomos Shogun

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Those guys at Cinema 5d definitely do some tests that are not at all correct and they deserve any criticism they get ( a lot of it).

For example when they tested the GH4 in that dynamic range test...they use -5 -5 on everything pretty much and the master pedestal cranked to +15 ...thats ridiculous!!

Its far better to keep everything at zero or close to zero for Cine D, otherwise use Standard or natural, I found that out after many shoots, this is also reported by Joseph Moore that Andrew quoted, and many are now coming to this realization and getting great results.

Also its far better to use the highlight and shadow curves in a subtle way to get the proper spread of light in your footage and thereby affecting the dynamic range in real world terms.

The good news is I dont really need the Atomos Shogun with this cam, whereas if I had an A7s I might....and I agree if they bring out V-Log for the GH4 then that would definitely make the GH4 even more usable in my books.

See what 2015 brings I guess, otherwise if the 1DC drops even more, then that is definitely kinda tempting.

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http://www.eoshd.com/2014/07/25-ways-sony-a7s-trumps-canon-1d-c/

i guess opinions change, but based on the stuff you pointed out there i'd still opt for the a7s, especially given the price :/

​Yeah, opinions do change fast at this place. But so does technology, so what are you going to do?

I'm biased because I have a new A7s here with me, Andrew may be biased because he has a new 1D C there with him. Plus I just dislike Canon with a passion, so bias +1.

I need to stop writing and focus on actually using my camera now.

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Nice article indeed, thanks! 

But I don't buy the idea that sensor size make difference here.

"The GH4 is the most usable and fully featured of the three for video but it doesn’t have the best image because of the smaller sensor".

The 4/3 size is big enough to rival any FF in video. If that was not the case why cinema standard is Super35? What makes the difference IMO is the circuitry and software around it.

Congrats for the blog! B)

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Well this blog IS heavily opinion based, just look at the 1DC dynamic range discussion vs the A7s, everyone has a different opinion about which camera has more DR. Andrew would be better off just to go outside and shoot something pretty with his 1DC so we can stop pixelpeeping.

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Thanks for the review.  I pondered the Shogun for my A7s but then decided at the extra expense, etc., I'd sell the whole lot and get something else. Also, the stealth of the A7s gets lost with the Shogun. What Atomos needs to do, like you mentioned, is make a small 4k recorder like a Blade that I can velcro or screw on to my cage and call it day. Also, the fact that Atomos don't have an HDMI lock or hood, is disappointing. How were they expecting us to use it. Even with full size HDMI, the last thing you want is a lost connection during a take. It will happen. 

Andrew, you may want to consider a small compact cage. I can't recommend the Movcam enough. Not much bigger than the camera, braces the Metabones adaptor so there's absolutely no jiggle, and the HDMI and sound cable lock works like a charm. You can than throw a ball mount on the 1/4 20 or 3/8" holes and not worry about wonky shoe mounts. The only mod I did to mine is buy a new handle with NATO rail so I can pack it away more tightly by popping the handle off quickly. Sorry about your Metabones issues. I have a more recent iteration (from September) and have absolutely no issues talking to my EOS lenses. AF is still slow as expected.

Interesting conclusions about the color science. Does the color science in the A7s work the same, better or worse through HDMI than internal 1080p? I've been playing around with pre-sets and been finding you really must boost the saturation in S Log to get a decent grade. Perhaps 8bit is just too thin for boosting it in post without shadow noise penalties. I actually get my S Log closer looking to Canon log out of the box.  I've been also using PP6 a lot and getting very nice colors. Something tells me S Log was really made for a more robust codec.

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One thing I'm surprised that more people aren't trying is Sony's own LA-EA4 A Mount to E Mount adapter.. in theory you could attach the Tamron 24-70 in Alpha mount to the A7S. I literally have seen no one try this.. but if the lens works at all I'm willing to bet it will be less buggy and cheaper overall than the Metabones.

Of course you'd have to find a suitable stabilized alternative to the 70-200 as well (would have to be a Sigma or Tamron in this case).

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One thing I'm surprised that more people aren't trying is Sony's own LA-EA4 A Mount to E Mount adapter.. in theory you could attach the Tamron 24-70 in Alpha mount to the A7S. I literally have seen no one try this.. but if the lens works at all I'm willing to bet it will be less buggy and cheaper overall than the Metabones.

Of course you'd have to find a suitable stabilized alternative to the 70-200 as well (would have to be a Sigma or Tamron in this case).

WIth LA-EA4 you'll get much better AF vs Metabones but you'll pay a 1/3 to 1/2 EV noise penalty due to the SLT.

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well... let`s try sealing it with silicone and then wait how long it will run until it melts down :-)

i think there is a portabrace cover/bag available that will do the trick with rain and also serves as a hood for better viewing... but it looks very complicated.. not my piece of cake.

this cage has hdmi locks and is deep enough to cover the whole unit. you can now lay it on it`s back without resting it directly on the bnc ports.

BUT it adds 260gr of weight, the raw cage was 600gr and i took away as much as possible.

 

 

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Dude after this article,

http://www.eoshd.com/2014/10/sony-a7s-review-part-2-conclusion/

Really? You can make some mistakes granted, all the mistakes you want! It's just the super professional tone of the articles that get's one thinking. I have actually bought two of your books, the GH4 guide and the 5D raw guide, and when there are these radical changes in opinion one really has to think if the books too might also be wrong insights into gear and their implementation. No offense, but I really am quite a bit confused. 

 

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I didn't have the 1D C at the time of the A7S review. Not a single one on eBay in 12 months. Had no idea it was about to become available for £5k.

And all judgement is relative.

The A7S stand-alone is still the "best mirrorless for video" unless you need the internal 4K. I need the internal 4K! That review is of the A7S as a 1080p camera.

Now it must be compared with the new NX1 4K internal and how it performs with the Shogun. I wanted the A7S & Shogun image internally, just didn't get on with it as an external box...I couldn't work with the poor visibility of the screen outdoors, the ergonomics of the battery life. Love the image! But not that!

If you can't get a 1D C and are considering the A7S then what's different about the review? Nothing. It's only changed for me. The A7S has not. It's the same camera. A used 1D C and it fixed my issues I had with the A7S & Shogun... namely...

- Image quality is better

- Internal 4K so no need for separate recorder and the ergonomic problems & battery issues that presented

- Replaces ALL my other Canon stills cameras for photos

- No need to suffer lens adapter bugs

- No need to work around colour issues with S-LOG 2

- Avoids bright blue clipping problem

- Price was a bargain used considering launch price of 1D C

It would be silly for me to get the 1D C if I didn't think it was right for me.

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I find it madness that people expect people not to ever change their minds.

When the NEX 5n came out, I loved it, great little camera. Had it came out yesterday I would have thought - what the hell is this moire ridden thing!? Times change.

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Seems like the Shogun users are reporting a lot of corrupt frames - http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?332293-Anyone-seeing-bad-frames-on-Shogun

Curious if anyone has tested the shogun with cfast media - especially the newer sandisk cfast media?  Seems to make the price differential between shogun and odyssey 7q+ much smaller but at least makes the shogun more reliable.  Maybe they need in firmware a way to verify ssd drives in a longer and more controlled way.  Poor Shogun, I was looking forward to ordering one of those.

 

so now to revise the review Andrew - odyssey 7q+ is $3,000 including 2 256gb ssd cards and reader.  Shogun with new cfast cards which should work (the new Sandisk cfast cards 128gb x 4 at $800 each cards) is $5200.  The odyssey 7q+ is $2200 cheaper than the shogun for professionals.  

So the odyssey 7q+ wins. Cheaper, more reliable recordings, better build, more adaptable, brighter, and more than enough resolution to work in a 7' display to judge critical focus.  And better false color.  Score one for the nerds!

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