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Big news - Samsung NX1 with 4K, 24p and **H.265 HVEC codec**


Andrew Reid
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That's not what he meant.

 

You got it right! At the time, I started writing a post explaining what I really meant and then I decided to not post it because it looked like this would go nowhere, it felt like he was trying to convince me of something that had nothing to do with my point anyway. I know how adaptable mirrorless cameras are!

 

My whole point was not how you can adapt it to E-mount or NX-mount, or even the bulkiness*, that was just an observation, how you can use this or that lens, etc. I was simply pointing out that many might not know but Samsung offers better sorted lens line up support for this segment than Sony - read high-end APS-C mirrorless cameras - and then I showed the lens line up to to back up what I was saying.

 

*bulkiness is not just about size and weight, it's a lot about ergonomics and balance and A7's body are not made for that, no wonder Sony has admitted that this is the reason why they are not yet exploring constant f/2.8 instead of the constant f/4 lenses.

 

So yes, I was talking about native lenses, not 3rd party not with adapters, none of that. I was not even counting the FE lenses because those were made thinking about FF users, not APS-C users, they are bigger and heavier than a APS-C user would need. The true is that Sony decided to not support APS-C users and moved on to FF E-mount users - not even A-mount FF users are getting any love.

 

So, if Samsung is aggressive enough in this market, they might get some users, which is better than nothing since Samsung is quite late in actually making a splash between mirrorless cameras. And I like how Sony has been aggressive for the FF E-mount users because they know how essencial it's for their success. Not just because they need more lenses to attract Canikon users but because once more competitors arrive, having lenses will be key. Pentax/Ricoh is said to be developing a FF camera, that part seems to be official, they didn't mention but I think it's likely to be a FF mirrorless camera.

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My whole point was not how you can adapt it to E-mount or NX-mount, or even the bulkiness*, that was just an observation, how you can use this or that lens, etc. I was simply pointing out that many might not know but Samsung offers better sorted lens line up support for this segment than Sony - read high-end APS-C mirrorless cameras - and then I showed the lens line up to to back up what I was saying.

 

Again, I disagree regarding the high end APSC lenses as I see no issue with A mount lenses (and A mount full frame lenses are in many cases smaller than Samsung APSC ones).

 

*bulkiness is not just about size and weight, it's a lot about ergonomics and balance and A7's body are not made for that, no wonder Sony has admitted that this is the reason why they are not yet exploring constant f/2.8 instead of the constant f/4 lenses.

 

So in other words as far as you are concerned, it doesn't matter what lens is used on an E mount camera it will be bulky and unbalanced.    That is the only take I can get from what you are saying.       I think it varies from lens to lens and think a smaller lighter lens means less bulk.

 

Then again, I find a Canon FD 85 1.2 L lens a great match for a A7 and not unbalanced at all.

 

So yes, I was talking about native lenses, not 3rd party not with adapters, none of that. I was not even counting the FE lenses because those were made thinking about FF users, not APS-C users, they are bigger and heavier than a APS-C user would need. The true is that Sony decided to not support APS-C users and moved on to FF E-mount users - not even A-mount FF users are getting any love.

 

The third party lenses I listed do not need adapters, they are native E mount.     The Rokinons, the Handevision 40 f0.8, the Mitakon 50 f0.95, the Sigma 60 2.8.     The LA-EA# adapters are part of the E mount system, they are native and provide AF just as on a SLT Sony A mount camera (using the AF module from one of the A mount cameras)..

 

Again, the Samsung lenses seem to be the size of FF lenses.    Take those 85 1.4 again.    The Sony is a FF lens the Samsung probably is too just not any current FF camera for it.    

I only looked at a few lenses as there are not many directly comparable.  

 

 

 The 18-200 3.5-5.6 Samsung weighs 549 g and is 72x105.5, the Sony  APSC18-250 3.5-5.6 weighs 440 g and is 75x86.      It is lighter, smaller and yet goes 50mm longer for the same aperture!    That says it all to me about this.

 

I will agree to disagree that the Samsung line is more sorted.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

At the end where he films his face it blows out his skin in a very lovely way and doesn't harshly clip, digital cameras are not good when overexposing skin except for the alexa, this looks very nice. The skin colour of people on the street is also appealing and there's cinematic flatness to the image. Looks good so far. Rolling shutter seems about normal to me.

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Haha wow. All through the video (and his other videos too) I was thinking "this guy looks a lot like Joseph Gordon Levitt" and now I just realised that he actually introduces himself as such at the start :D

 

I'm not seeing anything particularly impressive about that footage, but then it is awfully compressed.

In fact it's blowing out the store signs quite a bit, although he's generally exposed to the right.

And at 1:33 you will notice the traffic light casting blown out colours on to the pavement, similar to something I mentioned >recently. Not sure how typical this actually is of cameras though.

 

Nevertheless I am quite interested in entering that competition. Sounds great.

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I agree. Image looks nice and flat, but I can't trust the origin of the project.

 

Seems like well designed PR stunt by Samsung with the cool actor of the moment.

 

He isn't just "the cool actor of the moment" he is a very creative person who has built a sizeable online community focused on making cool stuff. A lot of his projects have been large online collaborations where anyone can participate. Samsung picked him for a very good reason.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

In fact it's blowing out the store signs quite a bit, although he's generally exposed to the right.
.


They are blown out but they are bright signs and he's exposed for the faces in the dark, so quite normal. What I notice though is that when they do blow they are blowing quite nicely. It's still early to judge but there seems to me that there's quite a glow and bloom to the highlights it looks like a very nice highlight roll-off, unless he's using a lowcontrast filter of some sort, though I doubt. The colours of their skin looks very pleasing even though the image is markedly flat and looks very gradeable if the codec has no weird issues. I am optimistic for Samsung.
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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

am I the only one impressed by this? Very detailed, great colours, very good dynamic range and highlight rolloff, and no visible aliasing issue even on the finest patterns. It's hediously over sharpened and youtube compressed but this looks very, very promising. Especially if you can turn the in-camera sharpening off (I hope)

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keep in mind these are downscaled by youtube from 4K to 1440p, and downloaded to cheap format. Worst scenario ever. Native unsharpened 4K footage should look stunning.

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He isn't just "the cool actor of the moment" he is a very creative person who has built a sizeable online community focused on making cool stuff. A lot of his projects have been large online collaborations where anyone can participate. Samsung picked him for a very good reason.

 

You are right. I wasn't aware of that. Still, he is not exactly the most critical figure of video or photo gear, right? That's what I meant with my original statement "PR stunt". He is a public figure known mostly for his acting skills, not his online community.

 

Nice move, Samsung.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=newproduct_samsung&divpage=1&no=4336

Dare I say the colours look almost better than Nikons? you judge. I am sure the colour science will not be different in movie mode, and the overall image at 4K. Look at the skin, and again, I see something magical in the highlight rendering, they melt into the surrounding environment vs harshly clip with an ugly line like all digital cameras. 

Did Samsung of all camera companies just create the ultimate video camera? if the image is that good, I would say yes. It's 1800$ too! Just an important question, is there a way to adapt Canon EF lenses to work actively on an NX1 mount? (IS and aperture, not AF) What's the mount called? 

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By downloading the video and frame advancing when the tram passes I have measured the total frame skew to be aproximately 80% of the distance a simgle point moves in 1 frame.  Given that the frame rate is 24fps, this puts the readout speed at around 33.3 miliseconds, which is disapointing after what samsung were saying about the processing ability of the camera.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I don't see it. Any camera with a rolling shutter distorts a passing train in the same way. From the handheld motion of walking down the LA street it seems normal, GH4/5D levels. We have no clear tests though on the matter, but I doubt it's worse than the A7s!

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am I the only one impressed by this? Very detailed, great colours, very good dynamic range and highlight rolloff, and no visible aliasing issue even on the finest patterns. It's hediously over sharpened and youtube compressed but this looks very, very promising. Especially if you can turn the in-camera sharpening off (I hope)

 

Indeed, if. 

 

Surely you're not the only one impressed by the (potential of) the new NX1, but there are also plenty of us who choose to hold both our judgement and our excitement until we see some real life hands on experience to confirm the promise.

 

Nevertheless, if the pudding turns out to be as good as it looks on the brochures, as I hope as well, the halo effect created by the NX1 will have a positive boost for the whole NX system.

 

That's why I think Samsung should start delivering the new product or at least offering tasting events for their latest pudding soon, well before CES next year, to keep the positive buzz alive. If they wait and delay the actual delivery too long, the positive momentum they gained in Photokina will inevitably be diluted and possibly drowned by the rush of new releases from the already more established brands early next year. Such is today's ADD world.

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We have no clear tests though on the matter

 

We have no clear tests on anything yet. The usual YouTube crap does not prove anything, it's just the usual YouTube crap.

Better to wait for some actual tests from the usual suspects or our personal hands-on time with the camera rather than make ourselves look like ADD kids in online discussions like this.  ;)

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Argh, that one hot pixel (in particular, there were more, BMPCC all over again). :P Sorry, OCD kicking in (not really, just an observation). I saw lots of noise. That exposure flickering was quite nasty. At some point he turned on AF, you saw it hunting, probably kept it off for his other clips for a reason. Dat rolling shutter... ouchi.

I mean, I know his focus is content over pixel peeping, but technically I wasn't particularly impressed to be honest. But... I do appreciate the reallife unsugarcoated footage. But I'd rather see it put on a tripod or rig and the just let a not so regular Joe put it to the test and try different profiles, different settings and everything to see what works best.

 

About the official Samsung footage. I actually thought Sony had footage with a similar feel on their AX100 demoreel...

Nice and crisp, great colors as well. Yeah, go figure, let's be honest, it's not amature hour over there at those companies. They know how to get the most out of their products and that's exactly what they're displaying... the best you can get out of the camera by the people that know how to and the actual conditions and means to do it. I probably won't ever be disappointed by footage released by the manufacturer that wants to sell a product...

... that doesn't mean that it's easy to accomplish those results and/or that you're capable of getting that out of the camera yourself, where conditions and way of use are probably very different.

 

The color and flatness, yeah it was ok, but again, I'm actually not too impressed by any of it and this is hardly anything to base any assumptions on.

Other than that maybe I had too high expectations... but hey, it's nice to see manufacturers participating and providing options. And that's always good. Everything of course imho. Let's see how this moves on over time. ;)

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Argh, that one hot pixel (in particular, there were more, BMPCC all over again). :P Sorry, OCD kicking in (not really, just an observation). I saw lots of noise. That exposure flickering was quite nasty. At some point he turned on AF, you saw it hunting, probably kept it off for his other clips for a reason. Dat rolling shutter... ouchi.

 

Quite. In the 'right' hands, any camera can be made to look horrible. 

 

I'd rather see it put on a tripod or rig and the just let a not so regular Joe put it to the test and try different profiles, different settings and everything to see what works best.

 

So why obsessing about Joe Sixpack's handheld video blog entries, then? That doesn't seem too logical.

Patience. Geduld.

There will be better samples around, eventually. Soon after the final production model comes widely available.

 

this is hardly anything to base any assumptions on.

 

Genau. 

Now you're making sense.  ;)

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