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Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating timers, workarounds, and Magic Lantern


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17 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

The RX8130 chip is a more advanced RTC clock and has timer function and user ram, so maybe canon uses this in some way for the overheating control.

I doubt Canon's thermal management logic relies on the interval timer/interrupt functionality of the RTC. Nearly all SoCs like DIGIC have extensive internal timer functionality, including programmable interval timers and interrupts. Every embedded design I've worked on only uses the RTC to keep time in between power-on sessions; at start-of-day firmware reads the RTC to establish real time and then uses the SoC's timers to maintain time for the duration of the power-on session. The RTC's programmable interval timers are mostly used to trigger wakeup logic on devices that need to periodically power-up to do useful work.

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No, No need to do anything It's very simple. Canon do a very simple calculation. When camera is running, a counter is setup. When the counter reach a certain level, you have a warning logo.

Ok, my trick works apparently. Tested by yourboylloyd on Magic Lantern Forum Record as you wish. When overheat occur. stop recording. Change the date. Drop the power (using the screw story or

Just confirmed that the Date change "hack" is still live with New firmware on R5. 

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11 hours ago, horshack said:

I doubt Canon's thermal management logic relies on the interval timer/interrupt functionality of the RTC

Ye, I also think so.
There are other parameters that are rested when removing the Battery cell, there is another chip righ aside this one and I will guess it's a tiny eeprom as usual.

If you put some fact together:
-Removing the battery cell reset the fake overheat timer, reset the time and date and few shooting parameters, but keep others as custom functions. So a memory is also powered with this battery. This is very common and few RTC chip also have internal memory to do 2 functions in one (RTC+limited amount of parameters)
This RX8130 do not have a memory register. So it have to be another chip somewhere to do so.

-The amount of chip powered by the 3.3V cell have to be as limited as possible and more likely close to the cell area. This is to keep backup, the power usage should be as tiny as possible. It uses 300 Nano Ampere in sleep mode as reference.

-If it was only a countdown with an IRQ, removing the battery during during the recording and putting back should not affect the countdown. The counter should keep running as soon as the "power good" is restored. So again, it points out to another memory that hold the counter flag.

I still believe a solution as magic lantern is the best way to go.
Either the counter inside the RTC is used for the fake overheat warning, Either it's just a RTC for the time and date.
A chip with a memory along the power line coming from the cell battery is more likely to have a register that can be access and changed by a side software. This software is extremely simple and write time to time a 0 flag in the fake overheat register.

The fake overheat timer starts during the full power state and write a flag when a normal internal timer is reached. This is more likely than using a specific chip for that. Only because the flag is written at the end of the count that removing the battery during shooting allows to restart. So finding this flag and overwriting it will solve this.
I don't see a use of this RTC for overheating purpose as it have very limited alarm feature. (The overheating have 2 steps for example)
I really see a register powered by the 3.3V, so a unique chip alone, not part of any large IC, that holds the key.
That should be also easier to access as it's a dedicated chip, ore likely from a generic brand more than from Canon, so the way to access it should be in a pdf somehow.

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Ok, here are new thouht after thinking a bit.

Something is bothering me is the recovery time.
Even without regular camera battery, or by pushing the time.
The recovery time is not reduced.

If it was just a flag to a memory that start to count, it will not be able to know how long the camera was actually off.
It have to be a counter, not just a date stamp difference.
This overheat counter IS inside this chip for sure. cause it can't hold 2 different date and the internal counter are quite limited.

Either the current overheat time is written inside a eeprom, and so compare on boot, either there is a timer that keep running even without battery.
After 2 hour of "fake cool down"; the camera is powering again and check the value of this counter. If it reached the end, you can go again. If not, you have to wait.
The second possibility is that the camera compare the time on boot and do a simple subtraction to know if the elapsed time is enough. The various test kind of shows that it is not working.

To make sure about the second possibility and twist it a bit
I would love someone to do a simple test.
Put the camera on overheat and lock (after 20mn recording video) and keep the battery door open with the scerw hack or use dumb battery the entire time
Change the date  or time to move it to the next day.
Now, try 2 different things:

Remove the camera battery with the drop system. Is restarting check the new day? (But not the flag?)

Or simple turn off the camera, remove the battery and start again. is the second restart is able to do the math between both time? (So the overheat time is stored on eeprom/a counter is runnin during no battery time)

Does it makes sense to test this?








 

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Ok, my trick works apparently. Tested by yourboylloyd on Magic Lantern Forum

Record as you wish.
When overheat occur. stop recording. Change the date.
Drop the power (using the screw story or dumb battery)
Put it back.
Timer is gone!
All camera parameters are saved. No need to open the camera, no need to lose your clip.
BOOOMMMMM
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24827.msg230515#msg230515

 

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WOW If it steadily works, I'll buy immediately one! : P

 

No other brand will offer the same bomb pack for soon or next months/year to come...

My most fair bet based on three decades of camera releases ;- )

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1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

WOW If it steadily works, I'll buy immediately one! : P

Well, one tester is not enough, please try to do the experience if you have a R5.
The procedure is explained here.
https://www.visionrouge.net/canon-r5-overheating-hack-solved/

In short:
- Power the camera with a external battery and close the door beside the R5 (you can also do the screw trick if you like)
- Record video until you see the overheating logo, or even until the camera shut down.
Turn off the camera by using the power button so your recording parameters (ISO and so one) are saved.
- Turn back on the power.
- Go to the menu, Change the time of the day to +3 hours at least (or add a day)
- Drop the power by disconnecting the external battery
- wait 30 seconds
- Put back the external battery. the overheat issue should be gone.
(if not, you may actually be in real overheat situation), try in 10mn...
Please share your findings.

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26 minutes ago, visionrouge said:

Well, one tester is not enough, please try to do the experience if you have a R5.
The procedure is explained here.
https://www.visionrouge.net/canon-r5-overheating-hack-solved/

In short:
- Power the camera with a external battery and close the door beside the R5 (you can also do the screw trick if you like)
- Record video until you see the overheating logo, or even until the camera shut down.
Turn off the camera by using the power button so your recording parameters (ISO and so one) are saved.
- Turn back on the power.
- Go to the menu, Change the time of the day to +3 hours at least (or add a day)
- Drop the power by disconnecting the external battery
- wait 30 seconds
- Put back the external battery. the overheat issue should be gone.
(if not, you may actually be in real overheat situation), try in 10mn...
Please share your findings.

For sure and no, I don't have it as written, hence my "if" :- )

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Congratulations @visionrouge well done👍.

1) Can I assume it that normal exFat can be used instead of fat32? i.e. the batter/power drop does not need to be done mid recording?

2) While in phase 2 i.e. with R5's date time now set say 1 day ahead is it necessary to increment by another day again if after doing a second batter drop, phase 3?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jn- said:

Congratulations @visionrouge well done👍.

1) Can I assume it that normal exFat can be used instead of fat32? i.e. the batter/power drop does not need to be done mid recording?

2) While in phase 2 i.e. with R5's date time now set say 1 day ahead is it necessary to increment by another day again if after doing a second batter drop, phase 3?

 

 

This is primary tested by one user, he put all his camera details as reference. Please wait to get backed and test with the Firmware 1.1 also.

1) I really don't see why the card format should have any impact there as the camera is not recording during the shut down. This time, this is just the date/stmap that is modified and not read at this specific boot.

2) Yes, at each time your camera is displaying the overheat logo, you need to increment to the next day, hours, month, year. But if your camera, during lunch break is able to cool down by itself anyways, you can put back any date. The idea is to trick the timer only when overheating flag is on. The camera at boot look at (current time - overheat warning time). if it's more than the predefined "fake recover time" you are good to go.

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2 hours ago, visionrouge said:

- Power the camera with a external battery and close the door beside the R5 (you can also do the screw trick if you like)

Hey dude

Nice job. Have you tried the Canon EOS R5 vertical battery grip yet? Can you pull the battery out of that and it pulls power from the camera like an external battery does?

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Hi Andrew I advise you to do new tests with the new firmware ... now the overheating is sensitive to temperatures ... I shot half a day in the cellar with temperatures of 12 degrees and I had no overheating, always running at 120 fps, this guy has demonstrated that by putting the fans and cooling the area of the cards can run without overheating ... even when the light appears after the ventilation goes off and continues to record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5HG1rlnVc

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Just now, Andrew Reid said:

Hey dude

Nice job. Have you tried the Canon EOS R5 vertical battery grip yet? Can you pull the battery out of that and it pulls power from the camera like an external battery does?

I do not have a R5, another user MagicLantern user did it for me if you check my posting.
https://www.visionrouge.net/canon-r5-overheating-hack-solved/
The battery grip will act as a regular battery, so it's a no go. It hold the same door switch as I have understand.
You can either use the screw in the door idea or use the dumb battery option that I prefer.
 

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7 minutes ago, danieleciraolo said:

Hi Andrew I advise you to do new tests with the new firmware ... now the overheating is sensitive to temperatures ... I shot half a day in the cellar with temperatures of 12 degrees and I had no overheating, always running at 120 fps, this guy has demonstrated that by putting the fans and cooling the area of the cards can run without overheating ... even when the light appears after the ventilation goes off and continues to record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5HG1rlnVc

Yes it does seem Canon are bothering to make it look like they measure actual temps!!

Thanks for your discoveries.

Maybe the Tilta fan cage will work after all?

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5 hours ago, visionrouge said:

Ok, my trick works apparently. Tested by yourboylloyd on Magic Lantern Forum

Record as you wish.
When overheat occur. stop recording. Change the date.
Drop the power (using the screw story or dumb battery)
Put it back.
Timer is gone!
All camera parameters are saved. No need to open the camera, no need to lose your clip.
BOOOMMMMM
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24827.msg230515#msg230515

 

Awesome job! I agree with your follow-up comments on the ML forum - based on your workaround working the camera is storing a future-based RTC timestamp for the available recording/cooldown (current time + interval) rather than a relative time or a simple flag. I'm guessing this wont work in V1.1 firmware since Canon changed the logic to sample the temp more frequently during the active session, which would give preference to the actual temp sampled rather than the previous session's timer setup. However it's still worth a shot because maybe Canon was a bit clumsy with the change.

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4 hours ago, visionrouge said:

I do not have a R5, another user MagicLantern user did it for me if you check my posting.
https://www.visionrouge.net/canon-r5-overheating-hack-solved/
The battery grip will act as a regular battery, so it's a no go. It hold the same door switch as I have understand.
You can either use the screw in the door idea or use the dumb battery option that I prefer.
 

Well, well - actually I did test it with my R5. Firmware 1.1.0 - and guess what: it works like at charm.

Let the camera overheat in the 120fps mode. Camera gets really warm. I guess I had something like 20 minutes in total (had to erase the clips from my card again and again). Anyway, after the camera overheated I opened the battery door, blocked the little latch to make the camera think it was closed. Went into the menue, forwarded the date by one full day. Confirmed. Took the battery out, waited some 15 seconds. Put the battery back in, closed the battery door. And here it was: Camera still warm after a short pause of 2 minutes (the time it took to go through the procedure) and what do I see in the display: Full recording time, no overheating sign. LOL. Canon, You've got a loophole there. Does the camera even bother to measure zhe temperature at all?!

Say thank you to yourboylloyd on Magic Lantern Forum.

Chris

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19 minutes ago, Coffe said:

Well, well - actually I did test it with my R5. Firmware 1.1.0 - and guess what: it works like at charm.

Let the camera overheat in the 120fps mode. Camera gets really warm. I guess I had something like 20 minutes in total (had to erase the clips from my card again and again). Anyway, after the camera overheated I opened the battery door, blocked the little latch to make the camera think it was closed. Went into the menue, forwarded the date by one full day. Confirmed. Took the battery out, waited some 15 seconds. Put the battery back in, closed the battery door. And here it was: Camera still warm after a short pause of 2 minutes (the time it took to go through the procedure) and what do I see in the display: Full recording time, no overheating sign. LOL. Canon, You've got a loophole there. Does the camera even bother to measure zhe temperature at all?!

Say thank you to yourboylloyd on Magic Lantern Forum.

Chris

Can you please confirm the camera lets you record after the procedure for the full indicated time?

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19 minutes ago, horshack said:

Can you please confirm the camera lets you record after the procedure for the full indicated time?

After the date change and the battery drop the camera restarted without any overheat warning, I wasn't locked out anymore and I got the full amount of filming time for my CFexpress card. Camera recorded after pressing REC. So I haven't tested yet if it gives me another 20 or 25 minutes, but I will try it in a bit, once it has cooled down again.

Keep you posted. 

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