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Andrew Reid

Sigma Fp review (part 1) and interview - Cinema DNG RAW internal recording!

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Bug fix firmware is scheduled for March 18. A bigger firmware upgrade scheduled for 'Summer 2020'.

At the moment I'm disappointed. They only mention an SD card bug and lens aberration correction in this first firmware upgrade.

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Stills:

I just went out and took a few shots with my Leica Q (28mm lens) and the Sigma FP (on which I mounted a Leica M 28mm lens as well as an SMC Takamur 28mm).

I thought the Q would blow it away, but zooming in at 200% in Capture One 20 the FP looks just as clean and sharp. There is no Capture One profile for the FP, so the Q shots looked richer straight away, but I was able to match the colours on the FP shots.

Method: I stood in the same spot and took pictures in 'manual' with the same ISO (200), aperture setting (5.6) and shutter speed (more or less), so I could compare the two cameras.

As an aside, the Takamur came out just about as sharp as the Leica Q 28mm (surprisingly).

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FP on top, Q file below. I tried not to alter the Q pic too much, balancing the exposure and adding a little saturation, no sharpening. I did more balancing to try and match the exposure and colour on the FP file, no sharpening. Simple Jpeg export.

The 3rd party lens hood I chose for the Takamur 28mm clearly vignettes.

 

 

SDIM0111.png

L1000758_1.png

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On 3/6/2020 at 4:23 PM, Chris Whitten said:

I just went out and took a few shots with my Leica Q (28mm lens) and the Sigma FP (on which I mounted a Leica M 28mm lens as well as an SMC Takamur 28mm

Which 28mm M? Is it the cron and if so which version?

I am looking for a 28mm but i am aware that the first ASPH cron has some issues in corners with fliter stacks, especially on Sony A7x. The new ASPH (2016) has a new optical formula and that works much better across all.

However, i can get the first version used, whereas the new version is too new for that. And on an fp there is no OLPF so the issues that plagued it on Sonys and other cameras might not be an issue.

Hence my curiosity.

cheers
Paul

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PS i find those tree images a bit over sharpened, is that default? The resolving capability of the fp is very very good when paired with a good lens. Comparing say a 50 cron with the CV 50 showed a huge difference, the cron works beautifully on the fp, better than on the Sony

cheers
Paul

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Finally bought a SlimRaw license - but still, with 1.8.3, I keep having the problem that Resolve (16.2) doesn't recognize the CinemaDNG files as CinemaDNG files, only as DNG stills sequences and separate audio files.

Is there a workaround?

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16 hours ago, rawshooter said:

Finally bought a SlimRaw license - but still, with 1.8.3, I keep having the problem that Resolve (16.2) doesn't recognize the CinemaDNG files as CinemaDNG files, only as DNG stills sequences and separate audio files.

Is there a workaround?

Should be okay, works fine for me. What type of fp DNGs are you compressing? Try to use the 10 bit log option and i think what happens is Slim RAW has pad the 8 bit into 10 bit which is what works with Resolve...

cheers
Paul

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The source material is 12bit UHD CinemaDNG, and no matter whether I transcode with Slimraw to losslessly compressed or 3:1 CinemaDNG, Resolve doesn't recognize the files CinemaDNG, only as separate image sequences and audio files.

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1 hour ago, rawshooter said:

The source material is 12bit UHD CinemaDNG, and no matter whether I transcode with Slimraw to losslessly compressed or 3:1 CinemaDNG, Resolve doesn't recognize the files CinemaDNG, only as separate image sequences and audio files.

The problem is missing time codes in the audio files recorded by the camera. Resolve needs these to auto sync audio and image and present them as a single entity.

Paul has posted a workaround here:

As a general rule, if the uncompressed image and audio don't auto sync in Resolve, the compressed image won't auto sync either.

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13 hours ago, rawshooter said:

The source material is 12bit UHD CinemaDNG, and no matter whether I transcode with Slimraw to losslessly compressed or 3:1 CinemaDNG, Resolve doesn't recognize the files CinemaDNG, only as separate image sequences and audio files.

Thanks to @cpc for actually reading what you were asking. I am always syncing audio from separate recorder so never think of cDNG being anything other than just frames.

cheers
Paul

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I think I've experienced the exposure bug with the stills mode. Here's what happened:

Yesterday, I had the camera in Stills mode in Manual. I took a reading with my incident meter and the settings were F2.8 at 1/160th. I dialed those settings in, then took a photo. Image appeared dark. Tried it again, same result.

Then I checked those images with RawViewer, and it turns out instead of 1/160th, the exposure was actually 1/640th, or two full stops down from where I told it to be. 

After resetting the camera back to default settings then going back into Manual mode, this issue disappeared.

What in the world?

A camera that doesn't use the settings I dialed in for a photo is not a reliable camera 😛 

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1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Make a report to sigma, if more people who do this it will get higher on the priority list

Heya Lars, is there a particular way that's best to make a report to Sigma? I've just been using their email address. Though I don't often get a reply back. 

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On 3/7/2020 at 4:38 PM, paulinventome said:

PS i find those tree images a bit over sharpened, is that default? The resolving capability of the fp is very very good when paired with a good lens. Comparing say a 50 cron with the CV 50 showed a huge difference, the cron works beautifully on the fp, better than on the Sony

cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

I didn't touch sharpening in the image editor, as that was the point of my test, to check the FP and Takumar against the Leica Q.

*Although* you have to 'proof' sharpening on export in CO, and as I don't really understand it, or use it often, it maybe that it was set too high from a previous export?

I selected 'generic profile' in Capture One as there is no FP profile. I also selected Leica 28mm f1.7 as the profile as that is the lens on the Q.

 I had to fiddle a lot with the colour on the Takumar file to try and match it to the Q. It came out more saturated and more green. The Q file a little more neutral.

The M lens was a 28mm f2.8 Elmarit (pre-ASPH). It has an issue which, according to a couple of Leica dealers I showed it to, is common with this lens. It has a fogging donut in the centre of the lens. So far it hasn't affected the images I get from the lens. 

 

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I have shot two very short videos in my music studio using the FP and Takumar lenses.

I shot at 4K 10 bit CDNG, using a Wise SSD. I used ISO 640, which someone indicated on Youtube was one of the cleaner settings.

I must say the results have been excellent. The footage is very easy to grade in Resolve 16, starting with 'Blackmagic Film' in the camera drop down.

It is tack sharp, although I had to shoot in very low light.

I have seen no flickering in the shadows. The footage to my eyes (I'm not a pro) easily matches my Pocket 4K in quality.

 

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CrimsonEngine on Youtube has tested the FP video quite extensively, all the CDNG settings for example, also looked at grading in Resolve.

There is no stated native ISO from Sigma as there is for the Blackmagic Pocket, so I asked him what he had found was closest to 'default' ISO in his tests and he replied ISO640.

In any case, my music space is very low light and I live in the UK (also low light), so around 640 was the minimum ISO I could use without using artificial light.

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Here's the FP image again. Takumar 28mm f3.5 lens, set to f5.6.

ISO 200, 500s shutter.

Everything default DNG profile in Capture One. I lowered the exposure, also used highlight recovery, added some contrast and saturation.

No clarity or punch. No sharpening in the image edit or in the output recipe.

SDIM0111.jpg

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5 hours ago, Chris Whitten said:

CrimsonEngine on Youtube has tested the FP video quite extensively, all the CDNG settings for example, also looked at grading in Resolve.

There is no stated native ISO from Sigma as there is for the Blackmagic Pocket, so I asked him what he had found was closest to 'default' ISO in his tests and he replied ISO640.

In any case, my music space is very low light and I live in the UK (also low light), so around 640 was the minimum ISO I could use without using artificial light.

The fp has some interesting ISO behaviors, certainly!

I've been using it at lower ISOs even in the dark and then pushing things 2.7 stops without major issues. It's truly a form of night vision. Shooting wide open at F1.4 helps as well, but consider this example of a quick night shot I did:

First shot is at ISO 320 pushed 2.7 stops, second shot is ISO 2500 as-is, third shot is ISO 320 pushed 2.7 stops again, and the last shot is ISO 2500 as-is.

The original video file straight out of Resolve can be found here to avoid seeing the recompression macro blocking artifacts from YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1sEtAlhfZOjfHO7R7XmXrJJvMUiJqRAHC&event=video_description&v=vYpPZPCWo5g&redir_token=-6uwx0ZKXpomIasN7CDyU0Ps-m98MTU4NDAzNTQzNkAxNTgzOTQ5MDM2

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