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mtheory

5D3 RAW outresolves EPIC

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

And it looks nicer too. My problem with the canon is the fear of dropouts on an SD card recording RAW.

Recording Prores on a ninja is still 8 bit with doubtful 4.2.2

I wish I could feel more confident about this camera.

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I see a lot of noise in the Epic footage...weird.  Thanks for posting this. 

Right?  I've heard the Mysterium X could get noisy, but that looks like bad mosquito noise.  That dude looks like he's on the business end of about 17 Viagra also.  I've never seen skin look so red, it crossed into magenta, lol. 

 

I haven't kept up with the ML Raw project enough to know if it checks all of the boxes these days, but a big one is reliability.  The card they tell you to get for 5D3 raw that's dependable and gives you enough time not to be a waste of time is about $700.  - Lexar 128gb 1000x.  The Komputer Bay's have too many horror stories I've heard for anyone to wanna hand over hundreds and cross their fingers... 

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 The card they tell you to get for 5D3 raw that's dependable and gives you enough time not to be a waste of time is about $700.  - Lexar 128gb 1000x.  The Komputer Bay's have too many horror stories I've heard for anyone to wanna hand over hundreds and cross their fingers... 

Does the Lexar guarantee no dropped frames?

Are the Komputer bays that unreliable?

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Yeah Epic starts to get noise one iso (EI)800 in my experience. Not unusable, just clearly noisy. The pattern is not as nice as Alexa. It also has an issue with magenta/green skin sometimes, and when it clips out things go magenta too.

 

It seems to me that the movement is rendered in a different way. 5D looks less traditionally cinematic but more 'really there', almost like the frames are less distinct across time or something?

 

Then again it reminds of the look of The Master, slightly hyper real, so maybe it's the sensor size that's responsible, since 5D sensor is so much bigger than S35?

 

It's incredible what the 5D can do now, no more excuses from anyone eh ;)

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Yes but ML still classifies it under nightly builds which means they don't want any responsibility for bricked cameras and so could be unstable. Also many reports according to germy about problems with computer bay cards and Lexar 128gb costing £550 each.

Could you really sensibly use this on a project you couldn't afford to mess up?

 

So apart from look what I can do Risk takers and cat videos is it really any use apart from a tantalising look at what could be a fall from a great height?

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Nightly builds or not, Magic Lantern take zero responsibility for any kind of bricked camera

 

But yes they're openly saying it's an alpha. I've heard one or two reports of problems (lost clips for example) but raw should put less stress on the camera than H264, as it's just saving the live-view stream rather than churning processor to turn that into H264.

 

Right now there's a few caveats, but I think give it a few more months and we'll be good. It's the top priority overall at ML, and having a raw camera of this quality for 2k or less £ (if you get lucky) plus some donation to Magic Lantern if you believe in karma, is incredible really.

 

As for what I'd use it on, well when I get a working card I'll try it with a personal project so there's not too much riding on it. Some people have used them on paid jobs already, if I had a decent budget I'd hire something I knew worked, but for ultra-high quality on a budget it could be worth a punt.

 

I thought the storage requirement was too much, but it looks like Cineform raw is very efficient and quite brilliant.

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Yes but ML still classifies it under nightly builds which means they don't want any responsibility for bricked cameras and so could be unstable. Also many reports according to germy about problems with computer bay cards and Lexar 128gb costing £550 each.

Could you really sensibly use this on a project you couldn't afford to mess up?

 

So apart from look what I can do Risk takers and cat videos is it really any use apart from a tantalising look at what could be a fall from a great height?

 

take the risk.  you wont get the full frame look from the epic.  if you cant risk it, rent a proper camera.  fact is, a lot of jobs might not warrant the daily rate of an epic - particularly a self funded film.  I'd take the 5d over the epic for a low budget film since as far as I'm aware it will kill the epic in situations where you can't afford or warrant big lighting rigs.  I bet Kubrik would take the hacked 5d over the epic too.  If it fails, shoot it again.  avoid boring, rat race, by the numbers jobs.  This is a forum for film makers and geeks, not corporate crap.  And in this criteria the 5d kills the epic in one fell swoop.

 

 full frame (replicating 4perf) and 2x anamorphic, or baby epic sensor and massive hire rates on camera and lighting...    

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take the risk. you wont get the full frame look from the epic. if you cant risk it, rent a proper camera. fact is, a lot of jobs might not warrant the daily rate of an epic - particularly a self funded film. I'd take the 5d over the epic for a low budget film since as far as I'm aware it will kill the epic in situations where you can't afford or warrant big lighting rigs. I bet Kubrik would take the hacked 5d over the epic too. If it fails, shoot it again. avoid boring, rat race, by the numbers jobs. This is a forum for film makers and geeks, not corporate crap. And in this criteria the 5d kills the epic in one fell swoop.



full frame (replicating 4perf) and 2x anamorphic, or baby epic sensor and massive hire rates on camera and lighting...

 

I couldn't afford to buy or rent the epic and would take the 5D3 over these two. However the clear and simple sensible alternative is the BMC

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Yes but the cheaper BMCC does RAW and Prores to more secure and cheaper SSD drives. Why would you buy an inferior camera at a higher price? Unless you wanted full frame.

 

Because you get a free monstor stills camera, free weather sealing, complete compatibility with EF lenses including IS, and you can shoot clips that can be handed to a client/family member/friend right out of the camera.  Also once you buy a compact flash card the Canon 5D MK III is ready to shoot even in the rain.

 

The 5D MK III has such exclusive features as formatting the card in the camera, autofocus that actually works, and a removable battery.

 

Frankly if you are an amateur the 5D MK III kind of makes more sense for you.  Even without hacking and expensive CF cards you can shoot amazing stills and great video.  Dave Dugdale's review of the BMPCC was very insightful.  I like the part where he showed the Prores video of the sunset.  I would have no idea how to color correct or grade that shot if I didn't have the 5D MK III file there for reference.  Both cameras have pros and cons.  I just think calling the 5D MK III "inferior" is a bit much.

 

http://youtu.be/rAgPaiLgeE4

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Because you get a free monstor stills camera,

Irrelevent to most film makers.

free weather sealing,

Yes That's important

complete compatibility with EF lenses including IS,

That's good for me although not everyone has ef lenses

and you can shoot clips that can be handed to a client/family member/friend right out of the camera. 

Not in raw you cant and the reason for buying this camera for me.

Also once you buy a compact flash card the Canon 5D MK III is ready to shoot even in the rain.

 Yes but a 128gb card and that's the minimum I would go to is £550 and its a bit of a gamble with the Komputer bay cards.
 

The 5D MK III has such exclusive features as formatting the card in the camera, autofocus that actually works, and a removable battery.

These are not as important as reliability IE the hack is not on ML approved list. You take your chances with this.
 

Frankly if you are an amateur the 5D MK III kind of makes more sense for you.  Even without hacking and expensive CF cards you can shoot amazing stills and great video.

It doesn't make sense if you drop frames brick your camera does it? Why take the risk when a BMCC costs less and records to SSD cards?

 

Dave Dugdale's review of the BMPCC was very insightful.  I like the part where he showed the Prores video of the sunset.

Dave Dugdales video went over old ground apart from his Black magic suggestion.

 

I would have no idea how to color correct or grade that shot if I didn't have the 5D MK III file there for reference.

 Maybe you should learn? I most certainly would.

 

Both cameras have pros and cons.  I just think calling the 5D MK III "inferior" is a bit much.

The 5D is inferior It is a hacked camera that by ML standards could be unstable as well as potentially dropping frames. How is that not inferior?

Look Please try to add something to the discussion instead of trying to sex up small advantages vastly outweighed by what could go wrong and down playing that into -doesn't matter- and those who think it does are clearly missing the smaller advantages as the greatest thing since cameras were made.

oops now I'm doing it.

 

 

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I'd say neither is inferior.

 

The 5D MKiii is a complete reliable piece of kit that can be hacked at own risk to shoot raw and have additional features.

 

The BMD cameras are designed to shoot raw but are incomplete beta equipment, and cannot hacked to include additional features.

 

There are no reports of ML raw bricking cameras yet, from reading the forum it seems unlikely to happen, it remains a possibility. Some clips do get lost due to formatting issues. The only person I know who owns a BMD m4/3 had it break on the first job, hardware failure, real life issues with BMD cams are very real and are being fixed as they go. But of course alpha firmware hacks like ML aren't exactly concrete coding either...

 

Blind faith in either piece of kit is ill advised, each should be approached with the appropriate caveats considered.

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JG

Of course you would test a new camera and if any faults then return it But once it is fully working then you can be as sure as you can be it will work.

 

However.

 

The mark 5 is hacked and not yet stable Not my words but Magic Lanterns.

The 5D also can drop frames as it records to SD cards and not SSD drives that are far more stable.

 

I learned a harsh lesson when this happened to me. The GH2 hack was very stable until I went out and shot something I didn't want to lose. That's when it went wrong time and time again.

 

I think if the hack went into ML's list of stable hacks I'd feel better. But that aside the cost of the BMCC is a lot less than the cost of a 5D and without the problems that after all the checks could come back and bite you seriously hard.

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Yes a friend of mine had that on a paid job with GH2, it crashed and lost a shot on a celeb interview and he had to start again :S so hacks are always a risk. But then he got the BMD and that physically broke on its first job! Poor fella...

 

That's why I went to such lengths to stress test Tragic Lantern for 600D and gave my results in the Shoot Preparation section of their forum: i don't like losing shots. 

 

Personally I have a lot of faith in Magic Lantern as a group, so I feel they'll have a stable 5D iii raw after not too long. I too would feel happier if it were not a separate module but in the main feature list! We'll just have to wait for that I'm afraid, or risk it. If I wanted a BMD, I'd probably have to wait longer to get one! You can't record video to SD in 5D, only the Compact Flash, but yes your point is clear and true, that's not as good as an SSD for sustained raw use.

 

The best solution I've thought of so far for 5D MKiii raw is a NexTo DI and two CF cards. You swap CF cards and dump them alternately to an SSD in the NexTo DI, which clones them to its drive. I've not yet tested it though.

 

http://www.nextodi.com

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Look Please try to add something to the discussion instead of trying to sex up small advantages vastly outweighed by what could go wrong and down playing that into -doesn't matter- and those who think it does are clearly missing the smaller advantages as the greatest thing since cameras were made.

 

Uhh... you realize that you used the word "bricked" more times in a single post than it has actually happened in real life.  Who's "sexy up" stuff?

 

You have picked the camera that is right for you.  That doesn't mean it is right for everyone and that the 5D MK III is inferior.  All I know is Canon produces solid cameras that come out on time and work almost perfectly right out of the box.  There is only rarely one firmware update.  For someone that loves reliability you really harp on and on about Blackmagic cameras a lot.  Those things are beta products... The entire line.

 

Even with no hacks the Canon 5D MKIII is ready to go and shoot hand held in all kinds of situations where a BMCC would be banned or impractical.  Heck I've shot my 650D all day with a pocket full of batteries.  The $2,000 BMCC can't do that.  It's a great camera but it has some serious flaws that make it very impractical for amateurs like me.

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Uhh... you realize that you used the word "bricked" more times in a single post than it has actually happened in real life.  Who's "sexy up" stuff?

Maybe no camera has been bricked if that is what you are saying but Magic Lantern are keen to distance themselves fromsuch an eventuality. That at least should say something to even the most limited intellect. But it isn't the only potential problem in fact it could be a minor one compared to dropped frames or other problems.
 

You have picked the camera that is right for you.  That doesn't mean it is right for everyone and that the 5D MK III is inferior. 

The camera is inferior because of all the reasons already cited. And I have never disagreed with you about the camera being of use to some so please don't put words into my mouth.
 

All I know is Canon produces solid cameras that come out on time and work almost perfectly right out of the box.

 
So you are saying if you hack a canon camera then it should always work because its a canon? Don't be ridiculous

There is only rarely one firmware update.  For someone that loves reliability you really harp on and on about Blackmagic cameras a lot.  Those things are beta products... The entire line.

Me Harping on???  I actually agree with you as I would love to be looking at something other than a BM camera. However they are the best deal if and when you can get hold of a good one that doesn't need to go back.
 

Even with no hacks the Canon 5D MKIII is ready to go and shoot hand held in all kinds of situations where a BMCC would be banned or impractical.  Heck I've shot my 650D all day with a pocket full of batteries.  The $2,000 BMCC can't do that.  It's a great camera but it has some serious flaws that make it very impractical for amateurs like me.

I think you summed your post up with the word amateur Because the 5D is a perfect camera for amateur filmmakers who want to play with professional equipment and don't need to worry if it all goes tits up. But please don't sex up the camera Fanboys are so tiresome.

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