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Resolution loss, panning and RAW


hansel
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Hey Guys and Kaylee,

so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell.

To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up?

Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem?

Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers.

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I've always asked me the same, and it's true, in RAW footage the motion blur looks really epic, I often find myself admiring and extracting blur Frames out of sequences.

No real answer but I find that following the 180 degree shutter rule and recording raw Never looks choppy no matter how Hard the Pans are.

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25 minutes ago, hansel said:

Haha, ok so what you are saying is: I can blame the camera, or me for doing pans. Great. Can't wait to get my hands on RAW then.

One more question if you shoot 4k and pan and then convert to 1080p would this make it less shit?

Cheers.

I don't think so, but motion judder is less evident on small screens, that's why while I'm filming on the d800 everything looks great, but once I open it on my computer I have to puke because of what nikon does with it's crappy codec.

You could buy an eos m for 80€ and try raw, looks pretty good if you aim for 1080p.

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30 minutes ago, hansel said:

Haha, ok so what you are saying is: I can blame the camera, or me for doing pans. Great. Can't wait to get my hands on RAW then.

One more question if you shoot 4k and pan and then convert to 1080p would this make it less shit?

Cheers.

Downscaling is essentially adding a blur to your image. It might help reduce compression artifacts--if that is indeed what you are seeing, that was just my first guess without having seen the image itself. You might get better mileage out of a directional blur rather than downscaling.

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2 minutes ago, hansel said:

No, there are no artifacts it just turns to mush. And yes exactly when I check video on a small tablet or smart phone everthing is gravy but reviewing on my screen gives me eye cancer. A well....

Yup, sounds like simple compression artifacts to me. Downscaling might make it subjectively more pleasant to look at, but won't recover any details that have been mushed. The only real solution would be to use a higher bitrate or better codec to begin with. Raw of course solves every problem, but is usually overkill. High bitrate intraframe codecs are ideal for fast pans, but even using a higher bitrate interframe codec would improve the image.

However, a better acquisition format doesn't fully solve the problem. If you distribute on a streaming service, then it will be compressed into mush, whether you shot in Raw or not. The delivery format is often the limiting factor these days.

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6 hours ago, hansel said:

Hey Guys and Kaylee,

so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell.

To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up?

Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem?

Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers.

What is a "cooperate image" clip?

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10 hours ago, hansel said:

Hey Guys and Kaylee,

so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell.

To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up?

Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem?

Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers.

In terms of what you can try to improve the clips you've already shot, here are some thoughts.

Try using the stabiliser to smooth out the pan a little.  The stabiliser will crop into the image, but if you're only wanting to stabilise a slightly jerky pan then it shouldn't have to crop much at all to really help.  Here's a useful video:

If you're really seeing compression artefacts then you can attempt to hide them by adding a small amount of blur to smooth them over and then adding a small amount of sharpening after that to match the look with your other shots.  This is a pretty nasty thing to do to your footage and if you add too much of this treatment it will look like very low quality footage, but if you add a tiny tiny bit of this then it might improve things a small amount.  I'd suggest using the OFX plugin called something like Soften and Sharpen which allows you to soften/sharpen small/medium/large textures individually, so you can do it all in one place and just turn it on/off to check if you're making things better or worse :)

Nice work on plowing through a paid gig - hopefully the first of many? :)

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heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera?

like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better?

any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo

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2 hours ago, kaylee said:

heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera?

like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better?

any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo

The biggest delay is from the top to the bottom of the frame (or at least, it is in every camera I've seen - maybe others are different?) so if you're panning left-right or right-left then it won't make much difference.  Think about those RS tests where people just move the camera left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right and the whole thing is wobble-vision.

Technically each line is a little compressed or expanded horizontally when you move sideways, but the jello effect of the rolling shutter is mostly just vertical.  If you had some magical way of eliminating the vertical effect (a plugin that lined up all your vertical lines perhaps) then maybe you'd notice a compression or expansion when panning, but I suspect it's too small to really be of much importance.

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13 hours ago, Mokara said:

What is a "cooperate image" clip?

Haha, is this a typo? Image video about a company, dadida?!? Like: "Our company does this and that, nice B-Roll, while someone talks over it, cut back to the guy talking, dramatic music after he makes a good point and so on...

 

5 hours ago, kaylee said:

heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera?

like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better?

any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo

Very good point! It seems (on my cam) that pans up and down are smoother. Maybe right to left panning might be better. Also one could turn the camera upside down. Or shoot 4k portrait and crop the picture in post landscape :D .  It's not like I am wip panning like a crazy fool, just a tat to fast for the codec to catch up, damn.

 

8 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of what you can try to improve the clips you've already shot, here are some thoughts.

Try using the stabiliser to smooth out the pan a little.  The stabiliser will crop into the image, but if you're only wanting to stabilise a slightly jerky pan then it shouldn't have to crop much at all to really help.  Here's a useful video:

If you're really seeing compression artefacts then you can attempt to hide them by adding a small amount of blur to smooth them over and then adding a small amount of sharpening after that to match the look with your other shots.  This is a pretty nasty thing to do to your footage and if you add too much of this treatment it will look like very low quality footage, but if you add a tiny tiny bit of this then it might improve things a small amount.  I'd suggest using the OFX plugin called something like Soften and Sharpen which allows you to soften/sharpen small/medium/large textures individually, so you can do it all in one place and just turn it on/off to check if you're making things better or worse :)

Nice work on plowing through a paid gig - hopefully the first of many? :)

 Thanks, It might be just good enough that they will hire me again one day.

On the clip there is writing on the wall and that is just fairly jumpy, that's were I can notice it the most. Will definetly check the Video and see what I can do.

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