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AaronChicago

GH5 vs Ursa Mini 4.6K

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2 minutes ago, deezid said:

Both the GH4 and as it seems the GH5 as well have a serious yellow saturation problem (and red clipping), so be careful while ETTR.

Yeah Yellow is not a happy thing on Panasonic cameras. There is way too much of it on average.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
Just now, mercer said:

I agree, when I first started getting more serious with video, I had the NX500... I tried getting it as flat as possible and ETTR... I learned quickly that ETTR is usually not your friend. It works great with my 5D3, but I haven't found another camera where it does. 

It's fine when shooting RAW, but LOG shouldn't be overexposed. ;) 

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah I don't understand how they, BM, have picked up the pace as much as they have with just going from 4k to 4.6k? They sure did some good Mojo on their processing to make it happen that is for sure. They are like day and night.

Panasonic could be exactly there, the GH5 does a wonderful job debayering and downscaling to 4k, it's almost perfect. But then they apply this ugly sharpening at the end... 
Why can't they just give us a choice? :(

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10 minutes ago, deezid said:

That's what I use as well. Damn, that really sucks, since my GH4 looks quite clean with it.

The UM Pro has better debayering and downscaling than the UM 4.6k. Less artifacts, not by much though.


UM PRO
4Kcamera-4k_feature_check_4k_testchart_4

UM 4.6k
4Kcamera-4k_feature_check_4k_testchart_2

GH5 (eww, reminds me of the hair actually)
4Kcamera-4k_feature_check_4k_testchart_4

Just to be clear I didn't have the pro mist filter on the comparison.

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7 minutes ago, deezid said:

It's fine when shooting RAW, but LOG shouldn't be overexposed. ;) 

Panasonic could be exactly there, the GH5 does a wonderful job debayering and downscaling to 4k, it's almost perfect. But then they apply this ugly sharpening at the end... 
Why can't they just give us a choice? :(

Well I think Panasonic logically knows that the GH series cameras are more for Amateur, Hobbyist users, so I think they Bake it in on purpose to make it look a bit better than it really is. Sort of what Olympus does with their photo colors, and even with their video now on the EM1 mkII.

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2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I think Panasonic logically knows that the GH series cameras are more for a Amateur, Hobbyist users, so I think they Bake in in on purpose to make it look a bit better than it really is. Sort of what Olympus does with their photo colors, and even with their video now on the EM1 mkII.

Maybe I'll even wait for their announcement on Cinegear. The GH5 seems like a nogo for film. But at least they seem to have the knowhow, lol.

Honestly even Canon went down there with their C300 MKII. The footage shot with this camera just looks rubbish. The C300 MKI was way better tbh.

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5 minutes ago, deezid said:

It's fine when shooting RAW, but LOG shouldn't be overexposed. ;) 

Panasonic could be exactly there, the GH5 does a wonderful job debayering and downscaling to 4k, it's almost perfect. But then they apply this ugly sharpening at the end... 
Why can't they just give us a choice? :(

Obviously with SLog2 you need to but if you didn't there would be too much noise in the shadows, which is probably why Panny has left noise reduction in the pipeline. Even with all the features, the GH5 is still a high end consumer camera created to give enthusiasts a reason to buy a 4K TV.

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Just now, deezid said:

Maybe I'll even wait for their announcement on Cinegear. The GH5 seems like a nogo for film. But at least they seem to have the knowhow, lol.

Oh they Have the know how, The Varicam 35 is proof of that!!

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Obviously with SLog2 you need to but if you didn't there would be too much noise in the shadows, which is probably why Panny has left noise reduction in the pipeline. Even with all the features, the GH5 is still a high end consumer camera created to give enthusiasts a reason to buy a 4K TV.

And hopefully a Panasonic 4k TV!

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1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh they Have the know how, The Varicam 35 is proof of that!!

Hmmm, no, the GH5 has a way better debayering.

Varicam LT
4Kcamera-4k_feature_check_4k_testchart_3

 

But in terms of color the Varicam is miles ahead.

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My problem with the GH5, is there seems to be too much of a disconnect between amazing footage and shitty footage. It's like a redhead and since I'll probably be closer to the latter, I am hesitating buying one. For $800 cheaper I can get the D7500 and know I'll get exactly what I am looking for in a 4K image. And the 1080p 24p and 60p is just gorgeous and as cinematic as any camera in its price range... but I'll be losing 4K 60p, slow/quick function, variable frame rate and probably most importantly... 5-axis IBIS. I mean you can literally take a GH5... a small DSLR sized camera out into the world and shoot a guerilla styled short film or feature with most people being none the wiser. It doesn't get much more Indy than that. 

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah Fincher does have a "different" mix of both a Film And a Digital look to his later stuff. His films even have a different Cadence to others. I guess him and Brad Pitt are going for it again.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/david-fincher-brad-pitt

Good news....I like his films a lot....The Game is one of my favorites...they collaborate well together!

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34 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

Just to be clear I didn't have the pro mist filter on the comparison.

Right. I would wonder exactly about it. I agree to disagree on that one. Nothing DoP skills (without mention post) can't solve. A filter will add the mojo people are so desperately looking for. No need for pessimism over here.

25 minutes ago, deezid said:

Hmmm, no, the GH5 has a way better debayering.

Varicam LT
4Kcamera-4k_feature_check_4k_testchart_3

 

But in terms of color the Varicam is miles ahead.

Varicam is miles ahead in everything versus other single contenders.

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23 minutes ago, mercer said:

My problem with the GH5, is there seems to be too much of a disconnect between amazing footage and shitty footage.

Operator's fault. Let's not forget that's a consumer camera made for consumers to begin with.

31 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I think Panasonic logically knows that the GH series cameras are more for Amateur, Hobbyist users, so I think they Bake it in on purpose to make it look a bit better than it really is. Sort of what Olympus does with their photo colors, and even with their video now on the EM1 mkII.

A pity indeed. Not actually better, but sharper. Sharpness is like alcohol for keeping the appearances.

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13 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Right. I would wonder exactly about it. I agree to disagree on that one. Nothing DoP skills (without mention post) can't solve. A filter will add the mojo people are so desperately looking for. No need for pessimism over here.

Varicam is miles ahead in everything versus other single contenders.

A pity indeed. Not actually better, but sharper. Sharpness is like alcohol for keeping the appearances.

Operator's fault. Let's not forget that's a consumer camera made for consumers.

I'm not disagreeing with you but you could also argue a good DP will get a great image from a t2i or a Nikon D90, so it's only responsible as regular posters to this site, to acknowledge that the great footage we are seeing could be more likely due to great operators.

For instance, if I had the same exact set up and circumstances as Luke had on his recent anamorphic video, with the same script and resources, more than likely my short would not turn out as well as his did. There is a craft to this and craftsman and craftswomen need to be applauded for their skills, IMO. 

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11 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but you could also argue a good DP will get a great image from a t2i or a Nikon D90, so it's only responsible as regular posters to this site, to acknowledge that the great footage we are seeing could be more likely due to great operators.

For instance, if I had the same exact set up and circumstances as Luke had on his recent anamorphic video, with the same script and resources, more than likely my short would not turn out as well as his did. There is a craft to this and craftsman and craftswomen need to be applauded for their skills, IMO. 

Indeed. I just don't think we should blame the camera. There's nothing wrong going on with the camera, but settings and operator's fault when happens.

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2 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Indeed. I just don't think we should blame the camera. There's nothing wrong going on with the camera, but settings and operator's fault when happens.

Again not disagreeing with you, entirely. I just haven't used it. But I have seen a ton of videos and the really good ones are crafted by people who always make really good videos. So yeah, maybe you can blame the operators because the camera is capable of good imagery but readers and potential buyers should be aware that their videos could be one of the overwhelmingly bad videos online as well. And until I personally use one, I'm unsure which will be more likely.

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Only shortcomings by their own. I follow your fair concern but from your knowledge I'd risk to put my bets on your liking :-)

We here must praise the potentiality of the gear, to learn with its limitations. DR is a way more limited on GH5 than processing there or the stupid AF mantra. People tend to exaggerate and lose accuracy on forgetting the right spot.

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And to add, I understand that one may get really excited about the GH5 and all its promise, but we also shouldn't ignore its limitations either. I see no reason why we shouldn't acknowledge that the AF isn't the best available on the market. Even if you find it acceptable, there are way better options out there if AF is a major concern. We also should acknowledge that there is some extra noise reduction going on that may lead to some plastic results. Just because a camera has a lot going for it, doesn't mean we shouldn't be honest about its shortcomings. 

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Correct. The point is when people start to freak out and tell false reports such as incompetent AF, horrid aliasing and alike. I believe that's when we can't keep silent. Silence implies consent :-)

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I've probably gotten more skilled in the last two months than I have in the last two years, so I know how it feels to use a camera and compare it to other operator's videos and question what I was doing wrong.

Luckily I am too thick headed to quit, but for some beginners they may become overwhelmed and give up... which kinda sucks too.

If a person who had $2000 to spend on a camera came up to me and asked me to recommend a good beginners camera to them, I don't think I would necessarily recommend the GH5, hell I'd probably recommend an 80D or a D5500 or a G85 if they like that Panasonic look. 

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