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Andrew Reid

Nikon V1 - shooting 4K 60fps raw for $200

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When my V1 arrives I am going to try covering the metal contacts on the mount with tin foil and see if I can get a combination of pin contacts that will fool the camera into thinking a lens is attached... Worth a shot :)

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definitely worth a shot,.. looking forward to your findings!

 

over on personal-view they have a hack for a bunch of different nikon dslrs,.. but there's a only a text hack for the v1 for the time being.

 

hacked and hotrodded the v1 could be a really tasty little thing.

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30fps for 2 seconds would be so much more useful.

 

Although at 60fps it can do something the $26,000 Canon c500 cannot. Internally record 12bit RAW 4K @60fps. :lol:

 

It does 30 fps for 1 second or 60 fps for half a second.

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So it's $200 per second.

 

130 seconds per $26,000 :)

 

Joking aside, yes we are being taken for an almighty ride by the corporations.

 

I would like Blackmagic to consider Aptina as a sensor partner.

 

This chip gives us a better image than their current one and they should explore how to give it the cooling and memory to shoot continuously.

 

The sensor can't cost close to the RRP of the original Nikon J1 (which shares the sensor with the V1) otherwise Nikon would have made a loss.

 

So it is is a $100 part at best.

 

Canon and Sony risk having their asses handed to them if they're not careful. They could see an entire $20,000 market driven to the $500 price point unless they face reality. Electronics are cheap. It happened in the music industry.

 

They're all trying to 'add value' - which is corporate speak for mark-up. The premium range of cameras adds value at $26,000 by enabling what is already possible for under $3000.

 

I think the reason Nikon didn't add a larger buffer is that the limitation is really the card write speed. Raw to SD card is a slow process. You really need an SSD. But again, the SSD interface is a $10 part at best. USB SSD docks retail for $30.

 

The next time a company like Blackmagic or Ikonoskop source a sensor, we are looking at 4K for $4K definitely.

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Consider the Nikon FT1 adapter - expensive but it will allow you to use Nikon DSLR glass in burst mode on the V1, so still cheaper than having to get the V2 for more lens choices.

 

That will likely only work with Nikon AF lenses. (If it should also work with Ai/Ai-s lenses - which is unlikely -, then this could be a hack around the burst mode's limitation.)

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Does anyone know if high shutter speeds would still cause a strobing effect when your working directly with a still image sequence in your video editor? 

 

Yes, it does, so that's another limitation of the camera. At least with the V1, it is impossible to control shutter speed so that it stays around 1/60 for 30fps and 1/120 for 60fps.

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are you letting the image clear on its own?

 

could you try depressing the shutter half way as soon as you've taken the 30 frames and then try another 30 frames immediately after?

 

I let the image clear on its own and wait till the camera has written all frames to the card. My experience with shooting immediately after is that the camera will shoot less than 30 frames. Sometimes, that can even happen after observing the wait period. If you want to go safe, give the camera 1:30-2 minutes between each burst shot.

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That will likely only work with Nikon AF lenses. (If it should also work with Ai/Ai-s lenses - which is unlikely -, then this could be a hack around the burst mode's limitation.)

 

It works with manual AI lenses too according to Nikon's specs

 

  • AI Nikkor 28mm f/2.8
  • AI Nikkor 35mm f/1.4
  • AI Nikkor 50mm f/1.2
  • AI Nikkor 50mm f/1.4
  • AI Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8
  • AI Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/acil/lenses/mount_adapter_ft1/compatibility.htm

 

It is pricey for an adapter - maybe I will get it, maybe not. I want to keep it simple on the lens side for this camera until I know I'm going to make full use of it in my filmmaking, then I'll invest. I've ordered the CX 50mm F1.8 because it is $180 and to lock focus so quickly using AF and then just get on with the burst of shots is very useful. The images it produces are incredible, take a look at this - http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/12/05/the-nikon-18-5-f1-8-cx-lens-review-for-the-1-series-by-craig-litten/

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It works with manual AI lenses too according to Nikon's specs

 

Yes, but the question is whether the burst mode will still work when an AI lens is attached to that adapter. Most likely, it won't.

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Yes, it does, so that's another limitation of the camera. At least with the V1, it is impossible to control shutter speed so that it stays around 1/60 for 30fps and 1/120 for 60fps.

 

Maybe you should try the camera first. All the test shots I did with the V1 in-store had the shutter nailed at 1/60 and it never budged. The camera controlled exposure purely with the ISO and chose the lowest shutter speed and widest aperture available. In very strong light you will need NDs as the camera may try and choose a high shutter speed to control exposure but it definitely isn't impossible to make it stay around 1/60.

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Don't want to piss on anyone's parade here, but shooting a burst of raw images is hardly the same as shooting video for even just a few minutes.

The fact that the sensor can do that for 1 second does not mean it can do it for longer periods of time without heating up or even dying forever. And assuming it did last for hours working at that speed, image quality could degrade over time, and everything in the camera would need to be updated to keep up with the data and heat.

 

I don't think the same camera could shoot that kind of quality video for the same price or even 3x more if Nikon had wanted to, it's very different things, and a lot would need to change with the camera.

 

No doubt camera companies are not giving us as much as they could/should, but this feels like a bit of a stretch in optimism.

 

The BMCC sensor can do 60fps and global shutter, and still they didn't go with it, probably due to image quality issues and heating problems in those modes. Personally I'd love it if they gave the users the option to choose the shooting mode (global vs rolling shutter), regardless of image quality, but they didn't give the users much choice at all with this camera. They didn't have to, I guess that was one of the perks of being the only $3k cinema camera in the market.

 

The 7D shoots up to 20fps 10fps raw images per second with the fastest cards and it has a mechanical shutter, imagine what it could do with an electronic one, if Canon wanted to...

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Bruno.... 100% right.

 

We have already been told that it can take up to 1 minute to offload 30 frames from the buffer to the card. 1 minute per second!

 

It's a nice little tool, with a few cool, but minimal uses.... Enjoy it....

 

But let's put the tin hats away.... This isn't PROOF of some big conspiracy to stop you making your film in 4K raw.

 

Adding a bigger buffer is not gonna turn this into a cinema camera. Just keep your fingers crossed that Nikon might put this functionality into a camera with the CPU, cooling, buffer etc to actual sustain the output.

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Not sure if it is this sensor : http://www.aptina.com/products/image_sensors/mt9j003i12stcv/

 

From what I see here, and from the recent Toshiba sensor in the D5200 - the sensor is mostly responsible for the video capability than the actual camera architecture. For example the downscaling method is actualy implemented in the sensor, not in the camera. Nikon probably didn't change much the d5200 vs the d5100, but just changing the sensor give totally differents results.

 

I really think that Sony/Canon crippling are not crippling but just what the actual sensor architecture is able to give. You could give the 5D3 sensor to Black Magic, and probably would not be able to get more out of it.

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Don't want to piss on anyone's parade here, but shooting a burst of raw images is hardly the same as shooting video for even just a few minutes.

The fact that the sensor can do that for 1 second does not mean it can do it for longer periods of time without heating up or even dying forever.

That sounds more like a processing limitation than a sensor read limitation, but maybe that happens on the sensor with this one.

 

Either way, something that could shoot for just 20 seconds would cover 99% of the shots i would use.

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Do you know if by covering the pins with foil you could break the camera? I have the V1 with me here and REALLY want to try this with c-mount lenses.

 

Cheers,

Javi.

BTW, I shot the Madrid video.

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