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Would a Sanken CS-1 be a smart upgrade for me?

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I've got my eye on a secondhand Sanken CS-1 that I'm considering buying. Wondering if it would be a wise decision for me, currently have a RODE NTG2 & Sennheiser ME66/K6 (& Oktava MK-012 hypercardiod I can freely borrow whenever from a friend just around the corner) paired with a Sound Devices 552 / Tascam DR680 combo.

I'd originally been thinking my next upgrade would be to get a RODE NTG3 (as is practically speaking almost identical to the 416, but cheaper) as it would mean a substantial upgrade from the NTG2 (or ME66/K6) and is a mic which would last me a very long time. And then next after that would be to get an Audix SCX1-HC (as the upgrade from the Oktava). 

However I have spotted a secondhand Sanken CS-1 at a reasonable price (this is the older CS-1, not the newer CS-1e), and am half wondering if that could be a smart idea to get instead/beforehand? It seems like it could also perform well both indoors and outdoors? Not sure, am struggling to find much info about it online. 

My (almost) complete gear list is here for context, if it is relevant (maybe there is some other gap I should be focusing on instead?):
http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/

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I started a very similar thread a couple months ago when i wanted to upgrade my NTG2. I looked into all the options, including the CS1 and was settled on the NTG3. Then I started looking at the Sennheiser MKE 600 which I'd written off without looking closely due to cheap price and AA battery option. Actually it's a fantastic mic and personally for me I prefer the sound to the 416. It's warm like the NTG3. It's the same size and high build quality as those two high end mics too. Its pretty decent as an indoor close quarters mic. Way better than the NTG2 and a step up from the ME66. It's a gem IMO I don't know why it's not the standard go to XLR shotgun for everyone here.

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If I could travel back in time I think I'd get the Sennheiser MKE 600 instead of the NTG2 that I started out with, but I think at the time the Sennheiser MKE 600 was kinda new and not so much info about it? Plus I got a cracking good combo deal of the NTG2 with my Tascam DR60D.

However I fear if I get the Sennheiser MKE 600 now it would be more a sideways move from my ME66/K6 (& NTG2) than a straight big leap forward like an NTG3 (or even better a CS3e) would be.

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If you are fine with the Rode sound (and why you shouldn't), then I would advise you to get rid of the Sennheisser, get an NTG-3, and later on buy the Audix. The 3 is very different than the 2, it doesn't replace it per se, and you can always do with a backup mic anyway (I always take 3 boom  mics with me on any job, and at least a lav more that I should, plus a stereo mic just in case).

NTG3 is different than the 416, I do not know how this rumor is sustained, it took me less than a year of 3 different jobs to realize that.

Obviously the Rode has a wider polar pattern and less frequency sensitivity to the two extremes (especially the low end is less pronounced than the 416). So, if two microphones have different patters and different acoustic qualities, then they are different in my book. I do not say that it is a bad microphone (it is excellent for the price), but that it is different. I would say that it favors more amateurish behavior on set, as it is more forgiving than the absolute 416.

After working a full 2 years on 3 TV documentary series with the Rode mic (and blimp) and various other jobs in the middle, I went and bought the 416 with the Sennheisser basket/blimp. Since then I am avoiding the Rode even if I have to offer my 416 for free; not because it is bad, I just prefer what I am getting from the 416. Also, the Sennheisser blimp is night and day against the Rode. I can't even stretch that enough. The new Cyclones are really bad at the moment, they are not ready to compete with the classic zeppelin design yet. I would say Sennheisser -> Rycote (classic design) -> K-Tek -> Rode 

If you have the power module, ME64/ME66 can be an excellent two way system for exteriors and interiors the same time. That used to be my main set when I started with sound. 

Since then I followed a bit the hype of the Rode microphones, but if I managed to get rid of the cheap NTG (they sell extremely low for new), I will go for a MKE600 for crude sound work, when the delicacy of the 416 doesn't cut it. Wish I could afford the 30 & 40, which are the mics I usually rent when I have the budget and the time.

The warmth that you are mentioning is the forgiveness of the polar pattern and less dialogue orientated acoustic quality of those mics. They are just different. Mics are like lenses, of course you can do a feature with a 50mm, but it is probably better to have a few more options. For indoors you need different microphones that those mentioned. A 64, a 40, an Oktava, the Audix, Schoeps (if you can afford them), a DPA e.t.c It is like to do an interview on a 1.5m wide room with only a 300mm lens; you probably need a 35mm for that..

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I used a Sennheiser MKE 600 for my last doc, plugged straight into my A7S II and was pretty blown away with how versatile it was. It was my first shotgun mic purchase but feel like I found a great buy, by far the MVP on the whole shoot. Sound was always incredibly clear for walk and talk interviews.

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I understand what Kisaha is saying about the 416 but because I'm a one man band and a camera guy first the 600 gives that leeway to be a little less precise. I also honestly prefer the sound too. The 416 always sounds a bit too harsh to me but that's just from listening to online tests, I haven't tried them side by side.

regarding the MKE600 vs the NTG3 I looked atand listened to pretty much every test, review and spec sheet I could find online at least twice and I honestly couldn't find anything better or worse between them. They're different obviously but I couldn't say one is better than the other. The 600 is not just Sennheiser's NTG2 it's significantly better and a step up from the ME66 too. Much smaller and better built for one but again it sounds much warmer/ less harsh to me.

Im not a sound expert by any means but I'm just saying find a clear reason to go for the NTG3 over the 600. Personally I prefer the Sennheiser sound. 

The CS1 is more in the ballpark of the 416 in that it might be technically the better mic but not as versatile and forgiving as the 600 and NTG3. I really value well rounded kit for the work I do as it's just me and I just own one shotgun. If you're doing dedicated sound work no doubt the pricier mics are better, but to stick into a camera for factual stuff the 600 is great ...

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I'd say if you can get your hands on one, try an AT4053b. Pretty remarkable mic for the $$ ($599 new, they do show up used). They're a popular studio mic for some so there seems to be more of them around. Hyper, good rejection and natural rolloff off-axis, nice warm-full sound with some "sparkle" to the highs. Popular when sound guys suggest a first "pro" microphone. None of the handling issues you get with the Oktava.

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22 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Depends on what type of happy ending you mean?

But yeah, have a CS1, and a CS3e now! :-D 
(plus many many more....)

How you liking it compared to the rodes? I'm thinking of upgrading my ntg3 as the pickup pattern is too wide for my liking. 

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@mukeiei you are clearly a spammer! One of the mods should take care of you....

 

On 3/19/2018 at 1:08 AM, Yurolov said:

How you liking it compared to the rodes? I'm thinking of upgrading my ntg3 as the pickup pattern is too wide for my liking. 


I haven't ever used a NTG3 myself 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

@mukeiei you are clearly a spammer! One of the mods should take care of you....

He's in another thread too but I hope they leave that post alone as it just says

'Panasonic is a device wrapped in the heart of the house is used.'

I don't mind spam when its as poetic as that ;)

Though I'm surprised it didn't spark an angry response regarding the weather sealing of that house such is the recent hair trigger vibe of this place.

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21 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I don't mind spam when its as poetic as that ;)


I also don't mind spam either when it is complementing me ;-)

 

On 3/19/2018 at 5:04 PM, mukeiei said:

I have received information from the article that it is very useful.

 

 

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Do we even have any mods here?!

How many mics do you have now @IronFilm ?

I have a sad story to share. This summer my friend from Canada visited me, and I gave him my Audix, so he could record some instruments he wanted for his band. He sent it back in December by mail, and the mail got lost!!!

I am in the terrible position to have only the Oktava as an interior mic, and it isn't as good as the Audix was (not even close). Instead of paying another 600€ (1100NZ$) I am consider getting the Sennheiser MKH 50 which costs the crazy amount of 1500€ (2700NZ$!!) but I could use it outdoors as well (when I have to boom a group of people) with the appropriate blimp (which I own anyway). I love this mic, even though its 300-400€ more expensive than the Schoeps, the durability and utility of it is unparalled in the industry.

Oh!blame the Greek post!

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47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

How many mics do you have now @IronFilm ?

 


Do we can't lav mics, or on camera mics? (Rode VMP etc)


Anyway, if we count only XLR mics, then somewhere very well north of a dozen. Easily.

 

47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I have a sad story to share. This summer my friend from Canada visited me, and I gave him my Audix, so he could record some instruments he wanted for his band. He sent it back in December by mail, and the mail got lost!!!


Nooooooooooo! That sucks :-( 

I was just tonight watching a TV doco about mail and it getting lost. 

Was watching it half in shock, at how useless the Royal Mail are. Yet it is fascinating, because over the years I've worked for every express courier company (except Pace) in Auckland (of those which are big enough to use bike messengers, as there are a few others as well but they're so tiny they're not worth mentioning if they don't have a bike messenger).

And for *all* of these courier companies (except Sub60, as their management then was incompetent) I was working on pure commission (I simply got a percentage of each delivery that the client paid the courier company, nothing more, nothing less. As simple as that).

 

The difference between that vs the heavily union controlled Royal Mail is stark! (although to be fair, they are two different but overlapping industries: express couriers vs mail delivery)

 

Amazing what working for commission can do as motivation to work to your maximum efficiency, vs what a union can do to destroy a working environment.

 

 

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Here the post union is really really strong, and really really expensive/slow, with rude employees! Terrible..

We hardly can sell anything on ebay, because the postal costs are unbelievable.

Audix/Neumann 18X or go to Shoeps/Sennheiser? I have to think about it...

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6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Audix/Neumann 18X or go to Shoeps/Sennheiser? I have to think about it...

I was hunting for a Neumann 185 for a while, got close a few times!

But ended up with an AKG Blueline in the end:
 



And now since then already upgraded to the mic above it from AKG! But still waiting for it to arrive from Oz

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