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Sony Mirrorless reliability...


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7 hours ago, Franz Schuier said:

 The only canon I can remember to stand up to that "rock solid" image was my 550d :grin: (I couldnt destroy that camera as hard as I tried)

I had to replace my battery door, the rubber hand grip, and the eyepiece on my 550D, but overall it was pretty solid. Haven't had any issues with my A7s really.

At the end of the day these are consumer cameras - and even high-end cameras have problems (overheating REDs anyone?). You need to sort out bad experiences vs units sold to get a better picture of whether a camera holds up or not.

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Wouldn't trust my a7s2 as far as I could throw it.

Only user issue is your reading, I had a iv not a iii

Both A7sii and RX100iv jammed, froze and needed battery pulled almost daily. Never happened on Canikon or Panasonic.

I to had bunch of problems with the Sony A7r II. Menus freezing, White Balance Errors message randomly (super unreliable), corrupt files, it started to chip and screen scratched the first month, weird motion cadence issues, ISO exposure way off all the time, and over heating. I got rid of it after 6 months and went back to my trusty D750 with an external recorder until something in that price range with 4k full frame comes out. I was never more pissed about a camera than this $3200 piece of junk. On paper its super advance and seems like a great deal. But in reality in the field its unreliable.  

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In my experience Sony makes good consumer grade cameras. My A7Rii did need the occasional reboot. While I had no major issues with it, I never got fooled into considering it a tool for professional work. Though I know some do use it for exactly that purpose. My Canon is as expected rock solid. No rebooting, just works. Granted, there can be problems with any camera, but I believe there is a reason that Canons are considered workhorses.

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I owned a 7D, 5D Mark II and 5D Mark III. I used the 5Ds intensely. Both of them crashed in the floor, from 6 feet high, with 24-70L or 70-200L. Both survived. I had an issue with the 5D2 with a dirty mirror but it was an operator error. And many other situations happened but they always worked.

I have switched to Sony and truly disappointed. I don't have issues with the A6000 but for A7R2 I have had batteries dying, EVF/monitor switch not working, USB not working then working, flimsy plastics, ISO problems. I have missed many important shots in paid work.

I can recommend Canon for serious paid work. If you are doing "light" pro work such as the occasional photo shoot for friends, Sonys could be good but they do not support rough conditions and pro environment as much as Canon.

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6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

I have had batteries dying

So, you didn't charge your batteries, or didn't bring enough batteries... i.e. user error

6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

EVF/monitor switch not working

Difficult to tell whether this is user error or not, but I've not had an issue with this on the A7(x) series.

6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

USB not working then working

This is not an issue exclusive to Sony, and is the reason I don't use USB on any cameras. My Canon's USB simply stopped working, or would only work 1 in 25 times that I would try it. I haven't tried the Sony USB much, only because to me it seems pointless when a card reader is like $20.

6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

ISO problems.

Like what? What is an ISO problem that is a camera manufacturer's fault?

6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

flimsy plastics

If you're talking the doors that cover the connections then I kinda agree, but I wouldn't say they're significantly worse than any other manufacturer really.

6 hours ago, rak_heri said:

I have missed many important shots in paid work.

Due to flimsy plastics? Or the USB not working all the time? Mirrorless in general is different to work with than a mirrored DSLR. Overall, I think the Sony cameras perform almost as well, if not just as well, depending on what it is you're shooting. My biggest annoyance with Sonys are the boot-up times, which is quite quick 80% of the time, but the 20%of the time that it takes up to a minute to figure itself out is really annoying. Also the AF on the original A7s series is a bit meh.

I'm not saying there aren't issues, but there are issues with any camera, and if you're changing entire systems (not just brands and ecosystems, but different products - MILC vs DSLR), you're more likely to encounter more issues as there are things that just don't quite work the same way. The Canon quirks are things you've become accustomed to, and learned to work around so much that you forget they were even issues. Each camera has its own quirks and issues, but I think you'd find that more often than not the issues people tend to complain about are brought on more through user error than through any fault of the manufacturer.

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5 hours ago, jax_rox said:

So, you didn't charge your batteries, or didn't bring enough batteries... i.e. user error.

So when the camera breaks down due to software issues and discharges a full battery within minutes like some smartphone its a user error?

Or a battery that after only a few weeks looses 80% of its capacity... Nah, thats bad gear, not a user error.

5 hours ago, jax_rox said:

Difficult to tell whether this is user error or not, but I've not had an issue with this on the A7(x) series.

I don't find it all that difficult, the button is broken. Unless he stabbed it with a knife or shot it I think its safe to say its a bad button.

BTW,

I've started to notice that a big portion (at least 70%) of all the still shooters I talk to are having the same experience if they use Sony. Most seem to regret switching to Sony. Some even call it (loosely translated) the "Sony Scam".

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44 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

So when the camera breaks down due to software issues and discharges a full battery within minutes like some smartphone its a user error?

Or a battery that after only a few weeks looses 80% of its capacity... Nah, thats bad gear, not a user error.

That's a long bow to draw, man. He said 'my batteries are running out'. There are so many variables like type of battery (i.e. OEM or third party), usage, and expectation that can quite easily make that a user error. The batteries on the A7 series already drain quicker than a Canon. That's just how it is - they're significantly smaller batteries, so they can fit into a significantly smaller body. That's not necessarily a flaw of the design, just a ramification of it. Who can say whether he's talking about a battery draining quicker than a Canon, or literally draining within 5 minutes. Without further clarification, it's impossible to say.

47 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I don't find it all that difficult, the button is broken. Unless he stabbed it with a knife or shot it I think its safe to say its a bad button.

Or maybe it's that he hasn't selected the setting in the menu that automatically switches EVF/LCD depending on if you put your eye to it or now. Perhaps he's not holding it correctly. C'mon man, there are so many potential solutions that are significantly more likely than 'the camera is a dud.'

If it was a Canon cam, everyone would say 'definitely user error' but Sony's just trendy to bash at the moment. Which, whatever. Each to their own.

49 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I've started to notice that a big portion (at least 70%) of all the still shooters I talk to are having the same experience if they use Sony. Most seem to regret switching to Sony. Some even call it (loosely translated) the "Sony Scam".

I'd say a big portion of all the shooters I've spoken to love their Sony's. But again, each to their own.

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Oh yeah the Canon 7d. Goddayum that thing was a workhorse. My 7d flew several meters and landed on concrete with the kit lens. Nothing. Still worked like a champ.

And I can agree with the evf/monitor not switching. My a7s developed that problem too, had to manually switch. It's really weird when people defend a shitty design by saying "it's consumer grade". Does consumer grade mean "it's shit"?

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33 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

It's really weird when people defend a shitty design by saying "it's consumer grade". Does consumer grade mean "it's shit"?

Consumer grade means it's built to a price and you're paying $3,000 for a camera instead of $30,000 so don't complain too much. ;) Think of TVs. A $10,000 TV is very different to an $800 TV, even if they both display movies. You would expect a $10,000 TV to last longer and perform better than an $800 TV.

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At the end of the day I am mainly curious if the new a7x II models are less reliable due to the IBIS being built-in.  MACK sent me a notice stating the body is being sent back to Sony / Precision for repair.  I have lost so much confidence with this being the 2nd failure in 5 months for my a7r2 that I am just sticking with Canon for now.  2+ years I beat the hell out of my Canon 5d3 - while I did have the SD slot fail (repaired under warranty) I was out about 10 days due to CPS.  I am looking at another full month with the a7r2.

Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice...bye Sony.

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@jax_rox  The (Sony) battery died while still having 35% charge. 

The EVF/monitor switch does not work anywhere although it is set in "AUTO" mode in the menu. I have cleaned the light sensor, it does not switch anymore. Now i have to go to the menu and choose manually monitor or evf everytime I want to review footage or if a client wants to see.

Flimsy plastics : I re-iterate that Sony uses plastics more fragile than Canon. They are easier to break. Small parts like the metallic pin holding the battery door pops off easily. The plastics around eye cup. I only have experience with Blackmagic, Canon and Panasonic. I cannot tell for Nikon, Olympus, Pentax or RED but Sony is the brand that makes me think I'm holding an electronic gadget with limited lifetime instead of a solid camera.

USB : sometimes connecting the camera to the computer works. sometimes it doesn't. Mac or PC. I wanted to do that for quick loading of shots but I have to use a third-party (Lexar) SD reader all the times. I did not have USB problems with Canon cameras

There are a few features that I like about Sonys. They are the smallest full frame so you could have the highest quality shots with a small lens. No other manufacturer offers that. I can send a photo to my smartphones in 30sec wirelessly. It's fun for instagram. I can do landscapes stitches. It's also fun, Canons don't do that. It's the best mount for vintage lenses : Zeiss, minolta, old soviet lenses etc.  

I wish their product managers stop one moment and take the time to release a simple, solid, well-tested camera that doesn't get in the way. I'd pay $$$ for that. And it doesn't even have to be 50mpx or shoot 4k120fps

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On 2016-06-15 at 0:26 PM, DBounce said:

My A7Rii did need the occasional reboot.

how did you reboot the camera? - my a7sii had a pretty weird problem with a "camera error" advice and in the technical service they reset the camera to factory settings and now it is working right. I tried the setting reset in the menu but it did not work.

 

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8 minutes ago, Jorge said:

how did you reboot the camera? - my a7sii had a pretty weird problem with a "camera error" advice and in the technical service they reset the camera to factory settings and now it is working right. I tried the setting reset in the menu but it did not work.

 

I pull the battery, hold down the power button for 5 seconds, then reinsert the battery and turn it on. It seemed to work to clear up miscellaneous errors.

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Sitrep - UPS just dropped the a7r2 back off.  Sony documentation read "replaced C board, cleaned and checked".  Was put in the mail priority on Friday 06/10 and returned to my hands 20 days later.  Considering shipping was easily 2-3 days each way, I'd say this isn't awful.  It's awful that's it's broken twice in the last 3 months, but the turn around isn't terrible.

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So for the Tenth or Twentieth, Ive lost count, time I will give Sony a go.
Just opened the box to a a6300, charged the battery, popped in the SD, turned it on, it crashed :)

Lets hope it does better this afternoon...

EDIT: Formated the card in my computer, and then in the camera. Now it starts.
Pressed record, recorded 10 sec. Looked at it on my computer... full of vertical static stripes, blockiness and more noise than a smart phone.
Will update firmware and see if it helps.

 

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