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Canon 5D Mark II raw dynamic range versus Sony FS5


Andrew Reid
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The sony thing looks horrible, they need to make some user friendly processing... Obviously you didn't get the WB right on the sony and that plays in favour for the raw, and its 8bit (or is it 10bit?), but still...

Btw, for some reason, when I am logged in on my PC, I can't see images. This doesn't happen when I'm viewing the forum on the IPad or looged out.

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Could you please make it also with 5d3 ML raw? I am very curious because it seems that we cannot make any real step forward (in pure image quality) with affordable current hardware, instead of that there are still some new cameras which looks like step but backwards. 5D2/5D3 with ML are still a real workhorses, recent software developments (MLVFS, MLVProducer) and fast CF cards huge price drops will keep them very good/decent for a long time.

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The sony thing looks horrible, they need to make some user friendly processing... Obviously you didn't get the WB right on the sony and that plays in favour for the raw, and its 8bit (or is it 10bit?), but still...

It's graded in Film Convert using the S-LOG 2 FS7 profile.

Next I am going to grade it myself and see if it will match the 5D raw

The WB was correct on the FS5 in-camera.

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I have my Odyssey 7Q+ on loan so I didn't factor it into the price of the FS5. The used FS700 + Odyssey 7Q+ would have cost me similar to the FS5 or more.

Ergonomics are important as is the variable ND.

In fact ergonomics are my number 1 reason for getting the FS5 at all, as I already have the A7S II and others.

Also I think the sensor is newer in the FS5 / FS7.

And additionally it is going to be well supported with firmware as it is the current model.

Plus the internal compressed 4K is very useful when you want to keep the file sizes down.

Does that answer your question Shield3?

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A used FS700 + 7q would be the same perhaps as a FS5, but we're talking about a FS5+ the damn 7q+ aren't we?  I have seen the entire kits (FS700 + 7Q + 2 256GB SSD in the low 5k range USD.  Also, I use my FS700 on a tripod mostly so the form factor doesn't matter than much, (not like the fs700 is unbearable to handhold).  I don't have these tearing issues with the FS700, and while I'm sure the sensor is newer, is it really all that different?  Both are super35 4k CMOS.

The internal compressed doesn't matter when using the Odyssey.  Sorry, but IMO the FS700 users aren't gaining that much here other than a bank account with $3500 less in it.  You do know with the FS700 you can assign a button for EV and toggle it as needed in Auto gain mode, along with the built-in ND filters.  Exposure isn't tough with these cameras.

I just find it odd that you were negative on the FS700 somewhat, and then pay double for a body that doesn't bring a whole lot to the table and has so many issues.

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Still can't quite get it close to the 5D2...

The colours feel less alive inside and outside the green push looks like an alien has landed.

Have you tried playing with the color phase and depth settings in FS5? 

With the A7rii, I have the feeling that you can fix color much easier in camera than in post, and another advantage is you do it only once. 

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Starting to get there on the grade now, close to final...

Pretty good for 8bit compressed vs 14bit raw I think. The blacks aren't as noisy on the FS5's sensor. I exposed for the window and had a bit of headroom remaining actually.

FS5 -

fs5-dr-2.thumb.jpg.02f021b9abda0068ef24b

5D Mark II Magic Lantern 14bit raw -

5d2-raw-dr.thumb.jpg.c6883f0994aa071bd93

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besides the fact that it`s not even close :) 

you were closer in the first grade...was this the same lens and aperture? yes, I know that one is 8bit and the other is raw, but damn I think that a nikon dslr has a way way more depth to the image.

And about the fs700 ergonomics...it`s funny, because where we work we consider small and light cameras as a drawback. an fs700 with a rig and two v-locks was balanced great! I prefer to work with a 10kg camera with good balance that a 1.5kg camera, that you are holding in your hands.

 

 

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It just reinforces everything i've found with other Sony products I have used... slightly blue/magenta cast that is just a bitch to get back to "normal". In some lighting, it looks beautiful, especially night shots in already cold lighting. I wonder if is it a WB issue? With the A7s, I now use manual WB to dial in a slightly warmer temp than it should be.

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Thanks for having a go.

However it would be better to use the original files.

I'll upload them.

 

 

By the way, this one was exposed to benefit the interior rather than the window.

Remember this is a very challenging high dynamic range situation too, especially for 8bit.

fs5-dr-3.thumb.jpg.955ee4cfa5ff908020bc1

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If only magic lantern would go the distance and sort out some type of efficient compression of that 14bit raw.  The difference is night and day.  That Canon image looks wonderful in contrast to a rather unpleasant image from the sony.  reminiscent of the difference between 35mm film and mini dv.

 

Hang on...  scrap that.  Why can't Sony just make a log profile that looks like the one that comes out of the black magic cameras as prores.  

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If only magic lantern would go the distance and sort out some type of efficient compression of that 14bit raw.  The difference is night and day.  That Canon image looks wonderful in contrast to a rather unpleasant image from the sony.  reminiscent of the difference between 35mm film and mini dv.

One of the universe's great mysteries is how Canon manage to go from that RAW image in the camera's memory, to the piece of poo on the SD card masquerading as "1080p" in H.264.

The fact is, compressing raw sensor data down to tiny files is hard.

I think the FS5 will get closer in the hands of a pro colourist.

The FS5's raw output will allow us to apply any LOG curve we like to the data inside the Odyssey 7Q+

And get 4K LOG ProRes out of the other end.

Pretty appealing to me!!

SLOG 3 is easier to grade. Maybe I should have shot it in that, but I didn't want any banding.

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the thing is that a properly exposed image in the hands of a proper post production and proper colorist will look almost always look great. that piece of poo MK2 not even raw was used in mad max. I don`t recall seeing a one bad looking frame in that movie.

Cameras such as sony F5 are amazing tools in the hands of people who know what to do with it and people who know what to do with the image afterwards. Almost never is that one and the same person. It takes skill and knowledge . We are seeing alot of crap footage from al sorts of cameras all over the web, because people don`t know what to do with it and I think that sony is making a mistake giving this kind of features on such consumer cameras, all the bad looking images cast a shadow of doubt on their equipment.

This topic proves my point so some extent. On the other hand, as limited as nikon cameras are video vise you rearly see something really really bad, as long as the image is properly exposed. I think that cameras as such including the F5 should have something like a C-log, somewhat flat, but easy to get looking OK and call it a day.

When I shoot a professional piece I always consult with the colorist, what his preferences are.  

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