Video Hummus

It will be interesting to see where this goes. One of the patent holders being cited as prior art now works for Apple.

Im really wondering if this has something to do with the new Mac Pros acceleration chips and ProRes RAW. If RED decided they were going to try and block it with their patent. They did the same with Atomos and they aren’t selling cameras...just recoding devices.

Hence the foul cries of overly broad patent and this patent examination request by Apple.

53 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

JIM JAMMARD was very upset being bullied this way by the mighty Andrew Reid. It caused him enormous emotional distress. Redpress literally caused the billionaire in Orange Country MENTAL ANGUISH.

A billionaire suffers mental anguish because a blogger didn't have nice things to say about his product or company?

Said billionaire sues Reid and gives him 48 hours to sign or proceed with being sued in a court thousands of miles away?

I wish you had better availability to a lawyer back then.

39 minutes ago, salvagedcircuitry said:

Please forgive me as this is my first post. I have been reading eoshd for a while now and have replied to eoshd several times on twitter so it's about time I made an account. ?

Something to keep an eye on. Apple has a history of driving companies out of business that they want to consume, so apple pays less for them. They did it with dialog semiconductor. They did it with the qualcomm / intel lawsuit (gobbled up intel's mobile modems division at a steep discount). They did it with P.A. Semiconductor. It's debatable that they were going to do it to GT Advanced Technologies.

It is a stretch, but is apple interested in making cinema cameras? Do they want to rekindle the cinematographer relationship they undermined with the fcpx release / taking forever to update the mac pro? Do they want to push the new mac pro sales by getting into video again?
Maybe apple wants the new mac pro desktops to accelerate all raw camera footage, and RedRaw was somehow getting in the way.
There just so happens to be that apple-specific integrated FPGA accelerator option on the new mac pro that apple has so conveniently released zero information on.
Apple likes the look and feel of big brands. They randomly purchased beats for reasons unknown to many. Is RED their next acquisition? Would RED look good on Apple?

Granted, this is pure speculation, but I do wonder if Apple has any interest in stepping up and catering more toward the top tier cinematographer. Maybe a RED acquisition is that step.

Or maybe they realize RED users will pay $1500 for $40 of overseas parts and want in on the action that is the insanity of the cinematography market.

I think they just want to push ProRes RAW as the default in the industry so they can sell $50,000 Mac Pros to studios and ProRes RAW in their phones.

3 minutes ago, Eric212 said:

Well normally one joins to make a comment....

Anyways name an instance in the past where RED has licensed their technology to another brand?

Atomos.

After they were threatened by RED for patent infringement. Guess who gets royalties with ever sale of an Atomos device that can record compressed RAW?

27 minutes ago, Eric212 said:

What licensing fees?  So basically you're saying that Apple was like "RED is charging too much licensing fees! Let's go after them with our $1,000 per hour lawyers and $600 per hour expert to scare them straight!"  SMH why ever comment if you don't know the details LOL

Licensing fees, agreements, whatever you want to call it. Obviously RED has a patent on compressed RAW data and apple has a compressed RAW coded as well. Doesn't take a much to connect dots.

And you joined 28 minutes ago to write that single comment.

Rabbit hole goes deep.

24 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its certainly got the makings of a great investigative documentary.

Maybe a project for someone on EOSHD when the dust settles? ?

31 minutes ago, Raafi Rivero said:

Apple is no stranger to overly broad patents either.

Yes, and this simply might be a cause of a bully (RED) getting taken to court by another bigger bully (Apple). Apple does it's homework and has probably weighted the cost of this court fight with what it could possible get out of it (even if they lose the case). I mean, look at the fight with Qualcomm. Apple lost and had to pay 4.5 Billion dollars (pocket change to them when they have almost a quarter of trillion dollars in cash!) but they got the company a six-year global patent licensing agreement with Qualcomm.

I have a feeling this is the same thing with regards to compressed RAW.

RAW is an essential component going forward with high resolution sensors because it's simply more efficient to compress the RAW bayer data and to work with it later.

1 hour ago, Ed_David said:

WHAT IS THE HOOEY IS GOING ON?

That hooey is highly irregular.

I don’t know details but my guess is RED was getting greedy with license fees. Apple has a lot of cash this would be scary for RED. 

47 minutes ago, Zeng said:

But the quality gap is so small now... You really have to understand this..

This, I think, is the truth to the disruption of the industry. High prices usually mean high quality but that gap is narrowing quite quickly.

Meh, new and existing players are coming with stuff just as good. Not sure why you would pay the premium. 

I was joking of course. I won’t be buying any RED products. My guess is if it doesn’t have a “RED” sensor it will be off the shelf sensor with a RED price tag. They have to keep their margins nice and fat.

I’m surprised anybody would still buy RED after they’ve been exposed for basically fraud with misleading and outright lies from the CEO about it.

It also puts a point on the trust of “made in USA”  which the US govt should defend its image and fine/sue RED . Who would I buy anything made in the USA if it’s just cheap Chinese products with proprietary connectors and not a single unique feature, design, or eco system? I feel sorry for all those poor bastards that spent tens of thousands of dollars upgrading to the mini mag.

Jinni mag exposes Jannards bare ass and we can all see it hasn’t been wiped in awhile. 

5 hours ago, nathlas said:

Komodo costs under 3500$ maybe

It would be tempting at that price (depending on specs of course) But it also means I’ll would probably also research what manufacture red uses for its accessories, buying them at 1/40th the cost and adapting them to the camera...you know to save multiple thousands of dollars on consumer electronics. 

ZCam E2 just got internal RAW as well. 

I’ve looked everywhere but I don’t see the slot where you feed it $100 bills. 

2 hours ago, Ed_David said:

Thanks for doing this Andrew.  I'm trying to get an interview with Bruce from Jinnimag and try to get up enough evidence to show Wired and the NYTimes, New Yorker, and Engadget and Variety and Hollywood reporter to cover this story.  Also maybe sharing this news with Sony and Canon, maybe they have industry connections they can use.  I spoke to a journalist at Ars Technica, and he said they don't have the resources to verify the claims in the Jinnimag video - they need a red minimag and a red touch lcd, but maybe they have legal experts they can talk to - or if someone has a patent lawyer we can consult with.

Let me know who wants to help start getting this going.

Andrew, also you should consult with a lawyer about their NDA against you.  I'm sure someone can offer you pro-bono legal advice.  It seems a little fishy.

I feel the patent issue is probably dead in the water based on how the patent office works.

The “Made in USA” claims however...that’s looking like deception and possible fraud, at least for that LCD screen.

What is their possible justification for being “made in the usa” or even “assembled in the USA”.

If they did this with the LCD screen what other components did they do it with, if any?

And why would they sue Andrew for talking smack about their product instead of rising to the occasion? Kinda shows a company culture of “bully litigation”.

i suspect a lot of this is driven by the personality of REDs CEO.

I heard about this 7 second rule when shooting at 24 FPS and 180 degree shutter so you don’t break the illusion of artifact free motion. Could be a myth though. ?

RED is a patent troll. The fact that they sued Andrew in 2010 to keep his mouth shut tells you all you need to know. That is patent troll behavior.

Ready to hear more facts.

Thanks for the write up. The footage was all really quite good. I really enjoyed Rob Ellis second video with the Ronin-S.

There are other tidbits to learn in those videos. Like preferring composition and camera movement over shallow depth of field in every shot. Using the surroundings to tell a story and not just isolate everything. 

2 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

"Blackmagic Pocket 6K - No ProRes in 6k"

@Andrew it is really surprising me how many people do not read the specs of a camera before buying! I listed the record resolutions and Codecs many pages back and stated that there was no 6K ProRes modes and No 4K Braw mode. I am now hearing from multiple buyers that have bought the camera that they are just noticing these rather limiting issues once they get the camera in their hands

I mean...... seriously, on what basis are people buying cameras these days if the most important elements are overlooked?

Strange.

GAS

What would have been smart is a really short flange distance and a BM mount with adapters for EF, PL, and RF or even Z. The adapters could be dumb, have glass, or a ND insert. The camera could fit into any set with whatever glass is being used, la la Kinefinity. 

BM makes more money while supporting almost any setup under the sun at an unbeatable price with a great UI and BRAW. 

43 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

100% agree with last Andrew post. For me personally no point in a small camera that needs a rig. IBIS, EVF, good video AF are must for me. 

For people who rig their camera anyway and don’t care about the above, the specs are great for the price.

I think they also took the easy route and used the EF mount which I think was a huge mistake. 

18 months from now will be another BM camera with 8K and a better, more sensible, mount.

IMHO, this 6K camera is a resolution numbers camera released to meet a moment.

8 minutes ago, Amazeballs said:

Completly agree. I'm anxiously waiting for next gen cameras from Panasonic and Sony, and frankly saying beeing a GH5 user I have more faith in Sony than in Panasonic. I would be glad to be proven wrong. Yes, Panasonic has way better ergonomics, IBIS, flip out screen, menus and video specs.. BUT Sony has substantially better sensor tech (if Panasonc doesnt roll out their infamous organic sensor with GH6), awesome cheap FF lenses like Tamron 28-75 and flawless AF. 

I would also add multi-aspect ratio sensor to that list of yours

Sadly, I agree with Sony being more likely to deliver. They just have more runway and I’m sure their sensor company is pulling in lots of revenue. So many cameras from phones to the latest mirrorless use a Sony sensor. I’m really surprised Sony hasn’t improved their ergonomics by now.

Multi-aspect will be hard to impossible to pull off with IBIS since it needs literal wiggle room to move the sensor in the image circle. They could do it with a fixed sensor and advanced EIS but EIS on its own has some real disadvantages.

Hoping Panasonic can deliver. Meantime, I enjoy shooting with my Panny every chance I get. 

I agree with Andrews post. Not the camera for everybody. When you step back and look at the whole package there are some real head scratchers. No doubt the image is solid and having BRAW is a huge advantage.

Is there a prize for guessing which one is Andrews? 

I’m a MFT fan but I can only see the GH6 being successful if it really pushes the envelope for what we expect in a hybrid mirrorless of its size, like the GH5 did for its time.

In my opinion it has to have:

A built in ND function of some kind, wether on sensor, or in place of mechanical shutter (with a global shutter to take its place).

First to offer 4K 120p in a hybrid mirrorless. At least 6K or better a 8K open gate mode.

RAW or a very beefy HEVC codec of some kind with 10bit in all shooting modes.

Next generation IBIS + EIS that offers benefits over the already excellent G9 and GH5.

At least 14 stops dynamic range with full VLog and some kind of extended HDR shooting mode.

Vastly improved AF wether PDAF or next gen DFD (the S1 is way better than I thought).

I think anything less and people will ignore it because of the maligned sensor size ?