Lux Shots

Good Question.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I often need to have two cameras running at the same time. I guess I will have to buy another Ninja V so I can get 5.9K ProRes RAW too. 🙁

I just sold my GH5S kit at a major loss (body, 12-60 lens, battery grip and 5 OEM batteries for $1500), so I can get the S5. I just have too many problems matching color between the GH5S and the S1H. Anyone know of a filter that I can use to reduce the chance of morie, since the S5 doesn't have an anti-aliasing filter?

55 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Right, S5 is back on my radar as a very viable option for a multitude of reasons I will not bore you with, but having been an APSC (Fuji) user in regard to mirrorless only, I have a very specific question...

Panny states they are bringing out a series of f1.8 lenses in the 'near future'.

I am reading that as being by Spring 2021 latest, but we will wait and see in that regard.

My specific question however is as follows:

I am a hybrid shooter.

I currently have one body set for video and another body set for stills.

I would like at a flick of a switch to alternate between two identical bodies with different lenses.

Ideally to keep my kit as compact as possible, I'd be looking at a pair of S5's for hybrid use and a single Sigma FP for static video duty. Ignore the FP though, it's not part of this question.

I shoot 4k 50p for filming/video purposes and wish to continue with that so in the case of the S5, that means shooting APSC crop.

No problem, I do that already and actually prefer it because it gives me tighter framing which for my needs is preferable.

So I am getting to it now 😉

Let's say I purchased the 24mm f1.8, the 35mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8, at another flick of a switch, I could shoot these (stills) as either FF at those focal lengths, or APSC stills at equivalent 36/53/128mm yes?

Call me tight...but actually it's not that, it's more a case of most compact kit with max flexibility and it's really only the 85mm I'd want to ideally shoot longer (at times), even if it means shooting APSC, because 85mm (FF) is not always long enough for my needs and an extra lens such as a 135mm, is more cost, more weight to carry around, more lens changes etc.

The summary is I think most if not all FF mirrorless cameras allow you the choice of FF or APSC crop for stills, but worth asking the question before I make any major financial decisions.

Let me know if I'm right because I am new to FF mirrorless so it's a bit of a learning curve. And I'm a bit thick.

Yup, that's it. But one thing to note that you may not be aware of. Panasonic makes the most customizable cameras of all manufacturers. I routinely switch between APS-C and FF crop in both stills and video with the press of a button. Or you could use C1 for stills and C2 for video.

You most definitely can make the camera do what you want, but it will be harder deciding which way you want to do it! 😃

On 9/4/2020 at 5:04 PM, zerocool22 said:

What about the r6 and EF lenses?

I know nothing about what Canon does with their system. Sorry I can't be of more help.

On 9/4/2020 at 6:44 PM, jack jin said:

The footage that I'm finding this issue on are all transcoded and edited prores 422/hq sequence, because they are the only ones with underexposed and lowlight shots with a lot of skintones. And I'm pretty sure that the s1/s5's 10bit codec is h.264, not hevc.

The S1/S5/S1H 4K 24p 10-bit is H.264, while the 4K 60p 10-bit is H.265. The S1H 5.9K 10-bit internal is H.265.

I haven't forgot about you, I have just been crazy busy. I'm also done with the Facebook group, too much bullshit there for me to be honest. I'm trying to set something up with a model, but models can be nervous when you ask them to shoot in low light at night for the first gig. I'm going to try and get some time on Wednesday for a photoshoot, and then maybe I can get a video shoot with her later in the week.

15 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Does the OIS and ibis also work togheter if the lens is a canon EF lens? 

No, definitely not. 

24 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

so, what are the Video limitations so far? I saw a lot of overheating issues, do S1 and above have that as well?

What about the crop factors in various modes? 

Lesser EVF/Monitor, small HDMI, lesser water/dust proofing, smaller/older tech battery are not small things compared to the S1.

I am not sure why everyone is damning the S1, Pana has to bring most things from S5 to that camera, and continue sell it for a bigger price, as it should.

Of course maybe it is not (hardware) possible, we will see.

30 min limit on 4K 10-bit full frame. If you shoot 8-bit, unlimited recording. S35 crop if 4K 60p, slight crop in 1080p VFR at 150-180 FPS and loss of autofocus.

Adds 5.9K ProRes RAW out to Ninja V at the end of 2020.

8 minutes ago, Beritar said:

Certainly not, I have the GH5, the A7III and I had the S1. The GH5 still has the edge for stabilization.  Maybe the S1H is better for IBIS, but not the S1. The A7III IBIS is the worst by a large margin.

But which lens did you have with the S1? If you didn't have the 24-105 or the 70-200, then you didn't get to enjoy the benefits of Dual-I.S. 2. For whatever reason, the 24-70 f/2.8 did not include optical stabilization like the 12-35 f/2.8 on the GH5. The Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 includes optical stabilization, but it doesn't work with the Panasonic Dual I.S. 2 system.

29 minutes ago, dgvro said:

When people compare the IBIS in this to the S1/S1h, how does that compare again to the GH5? Were the S1 models a little worse at IBIS? I know people tend to say it's just never as easy with larger sensors. Is the IBIS in this up to par?

Since it sounds like the AF may actually compete with Fujis disappointing XT4 autofocus, I'm really wondering if I should regret having switched from Panasonic now. (I was a GH5 guy).

The XT4 is great but the failed IBIS and overheating/limits feel a bit more of a bummer to me now compared to a similar tier FF Panasonic camera.

It's better than the GH5. The GH5 had 5 stops with Dual I.S. 2, while the S1/S1R and S1H had 6.5 stops with Dual I.S. 2.

Take a look at my video testing the IBIS with the S1H and Panasonic 24-105 f/4. 

Is there any indication that this camera has PC Sync port timecode jam sync like the S1H? If so, my GH5S kit is up for sale immediately for a song!

6 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

The lumanence spot meter at 10:42 should be in every camera, that looks great. 

Yeah the only reason I never went fuji is I don't enjoy their body designs, shallow grips and dials on top that I would never use. Never handled a XH-1 however so maybe that would convince me otherwise. 

They stole that from my S1H, along with the red recording border.

10 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

What put me off from the S1 was the extra fee for the vlog update.  I use to defend it back when they did it for the GH4 and GH5 as I felt it right to pay for an extra function reserved more for video professionals.  Then they included it for free on one of their lower level cameras and it didn't sit right with me after that. 

In hindsight, I feel that at the time they released the S1 that they should have advised customers of the S1H upcoming release; I know some were caught out by this and invested in the S1 and then learnt a camera more suited for video was due afterwards, even if more costly.

Now a year later, they offer an improved S1 in the S5.  Feels like those early adopters for Panasonic fullframe didn't get the best deal.  

Not a concern to me as I didn't jump in.  But I might feel differently if I had.

I think anyone that grabbed an aww really had to know the S1H was coming. I mean come on, the S1 had tons of features that were missing from the GH5 with no V-Log upgrade. There had to be an expectation of more to come, but people had money burning a hole in their pocket and couldn't wait.

On 8/30/2020 at 4:46 AM, SteveV4D said:

My issues with fullframe mirrorless is my frustration that there still isn't yet one to really set itself above the others.  Each model is close, yet each falls short in different areas.  Canon R5 and R6 suffer overheating, though have great AF, colour and IBIS.  Poorer DR for now.  The R5 promises Clog3 and internal Raw Light in future upgrades, which will be a huge advantage over the Panasonic and Sony.  Sony A7sIII has great lowlight, DR, AF, but colour needs more work and 12mbs for photos is a limitation if you do need HQ stills.  Still, its arguably the best fullframe mirrorless out there now for video.  I've never liked Sony; those I've owned have been very frustrating for me.  Not just for colour, but ergonmics too.  A few overheating problems on jobs have also not endeared me to them either.

Panasonic leads on video features, though the S1H is far better for video use than the stripped down S1.  It lacks a decent AF, and 60p is still cropped.  It could use an upgrade with 120fps 4K, uncropped 6K, and a decent AF to really dominate the market.  I'm intrigued to learn how the S5 sits with the S1 and S1H.

S5 could work well in my range of cameras for hybrid and run n gun work if it doesn't strip too much back from these cameras and it would be even better if it can improve in some areas.  Especially with competition from Sony and Canon.  

For video only, I'm more interested in the URSA 12k or the Canon C70.  But for hybrid, the S5 certainly has my attention.  It won't convert me into seeing the mythical fullframe look however. 🤣🤣

Get your hands on some S1H ProRes RAW. It's a sight to behold!

I think I owe a link to some footage. 😋

I'm going to try and do a stills shoot or something with a model this weekend, so I'll grab some of it in ProRes RAW.

12 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Exactly, fullframe is needed for photography.  

The future is a funny thing and frankly I don't need to buy a 2025 camera now.  I can buy one easily enough in 2025.  I got a GH5 in 2017 and now seldom use it.  Instead a Pocket 4K from 2018 became my main choice, swiftly followed by a Pocket 6K from 2019.  

I live in the here and now and don't worry about the future for video.  Maybe in 5 years, 3D will be back in fashion.  Maybe 10k is what everyone is shooting.   Who knows.  

I never buy gear for the future, just for what I need now, and should it serve me well in the future, all the better.  

The only gear I invest in for the future is lenses.  Camera technology just changes too much over such a short period of time to consider it for future needs.

 

The slope of change is getting very steep these days. I think we'll see full frame film production in cinema next year. You can also be certain there will be a stable of full frame cinema cameras from all of the DSLR manufactures.

Varicam is long in the tooth, Sony has the FX9, albeit with a fake 6K rating. Canon has the. LF camera, etc.

But even after that happens, it's not like all the S35 gear on the planet will vanish. They will be S35 films for the foreseeable future.

19 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What "make it work" is there? 
Just have the lenses that work, and they work. 

 

And you wouldn't have distorted it just the same way with a 20mm lens on a FF35 camera?? (remember, that's 13mm S35!! I'll almost never see that used on a set. It is a bad day for me when it is! ha)
 

No it does not "open up more flexibility in lens choice and framing options on set".

In fact this is a common complaint from professional cinematographers, the limited number of cine FF35 lens sets there are. 

 

Exactly, FF35 is still completely "non-standard". 

 

It's not standard today. But who buys a camera today without looking for how it may fare in the future?

ZCam, Kinefinity, RED and Alexa all have full frame either released or in the queue.

Additionally, the S1 series being hybrid cameras truly needed full frame for better photography performance.

The nice thing is, you can still use your S35 glass with no problem, and get the look you've come accustomed to, with the option to graduate to full frame look in the future.

It's nice having options!🌞

13 minutes ago, Origami101 said:

Panasonic’s L mount push still seems quixotic to me. Canon, Nikon, and Sony users won’t move as the benefits aren’t sufficient to justify repurchasing their lens stable, and the AF’s second rate. And there’s no cross-comparability with m4/3, so what’s the incentive there?

Strategically, I’d say going all in on m4/3 makes more sense. The smaller sensor has significant advantages, so long as they can capitalize on them: better IBIS, faster readout, deeper DOF, more compact body & lens packages, and, hey, less heat. Leave 135 format to the other three. 

There are some advantages, as you have mentioned. But on the flip side of the coin, there are disadvantages not easily overcome. Event work in low light is a big one. Getting shallow DOF without f/.95 glass in another. If you are shooting controlled narratives, it may not be a big deal to you as you can always light your talent. But in event work, you gotta deal with what light is available. 

I have the Panasonic GH5S and the S1H so I currently shoot with both, but if the S5 checks enough boxes, I'll go full frame all the way.

6 hours ago, amateurmike said:

How good are the S1/S1H at focus peaking?  I always think manual focus is good enough, but then I have the a6500, which has great focus peaking. If a camera doesn't have a good AF, then maybe focus peaking will not be good either?  Does anybody have any experience with both cases? 

I think it's great. I find that I have more trouble with my own vision than I did with focus peaking accuracy. When I use the EVF, nailing focus is quite easy. When I run on a tripod or gimbal, the internal screen, as good as it is, is simply too small, so I'm almost always using my Ninja V then anyways.

14 hours ago, horshack said:

There aren't any other cameras on the market that can do 4K full-oversampling from a 45MP full-frame sensor, so the fact that other cameras can achieve it in lesser configurations (smaller sensors or fewer megapixels) is not all that instructive. Same reason why the R5 can get warmer even just at idle - more pixels, more sampling, more data movement. There are also different levels of competency in design and manufacturing of large-scale ASICs, same as there is in software. One design may achieve a computational load more efficiently than others, which translates to less heat. This can be seen in AMD vs Intel with their different process technology and thermal characteristics.

I'm certainly speculating as I go along. That's what engineers do. They continuously evaluate the information as it becomes available and tailor their theories based on that changing information. The alternative is to start with a presumptive theory and then stick with that theory in spite of contradicting information. I try to avoid that when possible.

DIGIC is responsible for the full image/video processing pipeline once the data is ingested from the sensor. It's a multi-core ASIC with different computation units designed for each of those roles. As to the GPU scenario, actually yes, when the CPU heats up it heats up the air around it, which increases the ambient temp within that region. If that heat isn't conducted away it can heat up the area around the GPU as well, and vice versa. The operating temperatures of these chips is based on the ambient temperature around them - the higher the ambient, the quicker the chip will reach its tMAX. Based on previous Canon designs the EXIF temperature is on a chip well removed from the sensor and DIGIC complex, which would explain why it plateaus well before DIGIC does. We'd have to determine the precise location of that chip to understand how its temp corresponds to the sensor/DIGIC. The thermal photos posted online show both hot spots and cooler spots.

As an engineer myself, I hear your arguments. Ask yourself this as you try to calculate plausible thermal resistance transformations. Isn't this just too damn complicated?

I have never had such a difficult time with thermal management in any design I've done.

Artificial firmware limitations are what's the culprit. Of course, if Canon does fix it in firmware, they will say it's a bug, which is a definite lie.

7 hours ago, Brian Flint said:

Yes you are right. To prevent too many write cycles the timer would have its count value written to the non-volatile memory every, say, 2 minutes. At this rate the 200,000 max write cycle would take a 277 days of continuous use to reach the limit. It it is assumed the camera is in use, say 4 hours, of every day then the limit would be reached in 4  1/2 years.

Yup, that would work!

I used to work for a major automotive company, but now I write software for a major test and measurement company. 😉

12 hours ago, Brian Flint said:

I am retired now but have experience over many years as an electronic design engineer.

If there are 'timers' employed in the design then it is likely they would 'reset' to a zero or starting count state when the power is removed and then returned to  electronics. This would occur when the battery is removed. for a short period..

However if Canon was clever they could continuously write the count value of the timer(s) to a non-volatile memory  and when the power is resumed ( after battery removal ) the values of the count stored in the non-volatile memory could be returned to the timer(s). To do this there would have to be some non-volatile memory in the camera.

 

Most embedded non-volatile memory has a max write cycle of 200,000. A separate EEPROM or FRAM, has higher write/erase cycles, but I doubt they added another chip to do this.

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

but the payment won't clear until you send the item to the buyer

I sold my GH5S on eBay with the PanaLeica 12-60, a battery grip and 5 OEM batteries for $1800. I had a dozen picks of the camera, the sensor, the lens from and rear elements and the camera LCD. I was running an auction with the Or Best Offer option, and someone reached out to me with a buy it now for $1800, so I took it, as I was trying to fund an S1H purchase. After a week of receiving my camera, he complained that the unit was not as described, and wanted to send it back even though I said there were no returns! I said what was wrong with the camera, and he said there was a scratch on the bottom of the camera near the tripod mount! 

Ebay forced me to accept the return, and this fuck effectively got a free two week rental out of my camera!

Ebay can eat ass juice for all I care.

18 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

 

Right, and who in their right mind would be using this for a commercial ?

You guys seem to think that somehow this camera is going to end up being used on high end productions . It’s so astoundingly ignorant.

 

Yeah, it's so ignorant of anyone to even suggest this be used professionally on a set (insert picture of Canon R5 with C300 from Canon's Website, after it comes back online. If they haven't totally scrapped the R5 by then).

15 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

These folk here can’t understand that.  The average shot in a commercial is about a second .

i think their brains are hit with the Almighty  ‘cripple hammer “ which they refer to constantly.

i can’t wait to see the.great creative work done with this awesome tool. 
And it will be .

The average shot may be a second, but if you've ever been on the set of a commercial, you'd know that shot took 4 hours to make.

On 8/1/2020 at 2:50 PM, HockeyFan12 said:

Can someone post a direct comparison (even under a second clip is fine) of out of camera HEVC 6K vs out of camera UHD vs ProRes raw?

There are cameras (Alexa) where raw is not substantially better and cameras (5D Mk III) where it makes a world of difference. 

Curious what is the case with the S1H, but not curious enough to rent one again to find out for myself. Thanks to anyone who does this!

I'll grab some footage today, but it's super cloudy over by me, so I don't know how much of a dynamic range test it will be.

On 7/29/2020 at 5:46 AM, BTM_Pix said:

The reason for the lack of footage is that, as with the ProRes RAW output for the Sigma fP, the firmware for the camera has been publicly released but the update for the Ninja V hasn't as of yet.

For the GFX100, it is slated to be released "in July" so there is a couple of days left yet before its officially late !

 

 

I'm strongly considering shooting a bunch of ProRes RAW with my S1H/Ninja V combo for a stock videography/wife's birthday/hunting trip that's coming up next week. The only thing that's holding me back is I can't grade the shit in Premiere Pro CC because of a new bug I've uncovered with having an AMD GPU (Vega Frontier Edition 16 GB VRAM) and a dedicated NVidia Tesla Compute card with no video out in the same computer. I'm seriously considering buying another NVidia card just so I can do a test with this before I leave. There has to be some Fuji footage dropping very soon from someone...