kye

It's difficult to think of anything they are likely to bring to a FF camera, but it's also difficult to think that the company that made the GH series (and its consistent "they listened to us and gave us everything we wanted" track record) wouldn't do a good job. When is this thing being launched?

Another thought, a colour chart would be useful, and maybe something with predictable movement, like a fan. That way we can verify that any movement-related differences aren't related to shutter angle, and the colour chart would help in matching colours.

That's a pretty big advantage. Not only the lack of processing to debayer, but also the lack of processing to get data rates down to be manageable. Still, a 12-bit intermediary codec would be pretty nice and skip having to make proxies. 12-bit files with no rendering proxies would be a big drawcard.

Is there any chance it will record Prores internally? Or cineform? There are some very interesting 12-bit 4:4:4 codecs that don't have crazy data-rates: 1080: Cineform 12-bit HD Low 130Mbps 1080: Cineform 12-bit HD Medium 160Mbps 1080: Cineform 12-bit HD High 195Mbps 4K Cineform 12-bit UHD Low 445Mbps 4K Cineform 12-bit UHD Medium 515Mbps 4K Cineform 12-bit UHD High 630Mbps For many the ability to record 12-bit 444 internally to an SD card would mean they wouldn't care about RAW, surely?

+1 for movement. The difference might have been clear, but the x-factor was completely missing. I'm not sitting and looking at the images going "wow those cameras are great", I'm thinking "these make terrible photo cameras" We also need to be sure to nail focus too. I'd suggest stopping down to mostly eliminate it as a variable. I'm thinking there's mojo in these cameras even without fast lenses, so stopping down isn't going to prevent us from seeing the magic.

There might be a clever way to keep it aligned, for example if the gain on each pixel only had a few settings to choose from, but each was 2X or 4X the last. Then you read the value of the pixel and only need to do a bit-shift to the value to align it with the rest of the image. Audio DACs are 16 or 24-bit, and each bit is worth double the previous one, so it wouldn't be that challenging to also make the amplifier for each one have a few "bits", and I'm sure there are some simple circuits that can use the amplifier setting to shift the bits in what the ADC is putting out.

I just assumed that it would be at least as good for video as the GH5. If it didn't have 10-bit then I'd be stunned.

Awesome! These camera tests are a lot more work than they seem, so including whatever other cameras (and helpers to come with them!) is a lot easier than trying to repeat the test with those missing cameras, or to try and shoot something equivalent under different conditions. I'm totally fine for someone on social to get in on this too, I'm after knowledge not fame This is my primary drive, so exact colours and whatever don't matter as much to me. When you look at old BMPCC footage that "x-factor" is apparent, so I don't think we need identical movements. It's a "we'll know it when we see it" kind of thing, and that's why I think so many are interested in it but no-one can really describe what "it" is. Thus why we invent new words like Mojo My vote is for matching the "soul" of the cameras so I don't care if the movement is identical, so now we just have to pick the most cinematic lens... lol. .... So, artificial lighting, adorable 8-year old, Nikkor 24-70 f2.8, adapters, cameras and a tripod. In terms of the setup, how do we shoot it so that the character of each camera is most emphasised? I'm thinking more dramatic lighting and lots of movement perhaps? Should we use mixed lighting? What really makes the BM cameras sing?

True! Sometimes for the wrong reasons, but still best not.

Awesome! I'm thinking we should do this carefully and properly, unlike all the other BS camera comparisons we all justifiably hang shit on. I think there's two approaches Shoot all of cameras simultaneously, which would mean no differences in what they're filming and we can sync them up for direct comparison. The downside to this is that you can't use the same lens on each of them, unless you can borrow some duplicates from somewhere, and the angles would be slightly different, but with a long focal length this is passable. Shoot them sequentially and have a completely controlled scene, so 100% artificial lighting (already warmed up), etc. The upside is we can get the same angle and lens, the downside is that any human movement or poses won't be identical. In terms of what to shoot, we absolutely need movement, we absolutely need skin tones, and we absolutely need to have a range of highlights/shadows and different colours. I'm not going to be able to match the colours exactly like @Sage has done with the GHa, I'm more interested in making the footage from the P4K look like it was shot with either of the other two cameras, ie, to be believable. I'm with @DBounce that motion plays a critical role here. I'm also thinking that resolution and softness are in the mix somehow too. And if we can get a GH5 in there too that would be absolutely brilliant! There really is something special about the BMPCC and some of these old cameras, and maybe @webrunner5 is right, but maybe not, and i'm not sure if anyone has given it a serious go or not. What does everyone think about how to shoot it? I'm going to need guidance from everyone else on this project for sure

Nice video! It is very clean as @User says, but that's a style unto itself, so why not I especially liked the night time lapses and the drone shot following the bird, very nicely done! Just because you live in three places doesn't mean you can't go on holiday! I think with things like airbnb it's probably easier to rent rather than buy and have all the ownership hassles. Of course, you can only live with what you can carry around, so no having heavy possessions like a large monitor, decent studio monitors for editing, a solid coffee machine, etc. These things are affordable and you could buy duplicate setups for each place, but if you didn't own them then carting them around would be a hassle, especially if you need to fly to get between your residences. Wherever I go I like to have a quick look at real estate prices and look for the lowest price of anything available. I understand that you can't just say a house a quarter the size should cost a quarter because it costs more to build a bathroom than a bedroom, plus there's an overhead for it being useful (as a place to live) but you really should be able to buy a tiny studio apartment for $50k in most major cities. That doesn't get you around the foreign ownership laws, but I'd have a few here in Australia and spend time between them when I could. It would also sort out lots of problems with housing affordability and some of the social problems surrounding it. I've followed the Tiny House movement for some years now and that's quite a promising thing. Not necessarily because a caravan built like a wooden garden shed is the answer, but because they're pushing the perceptions of why we need to have large houses. In the US, and lots of countries I believe, there are minimum sizes for building houses and I heard they were introduced during an economic slump as a way to ensure the building industry had more to do. It will be great to see those standards relaxed, even if other more relevant ones are to take their place, as it opens up a lot of possibilities.

I don't care what they look like when made to "look good" or even how well other people have matched the colours or whatever. I'm talking about a full-out attempt to make them indistinguishable. @Sage has included some modifications to sharpness of the GH5 vs Alexa in his GHa LUT packs, and I'm talking about that kind of thing. If I can work out how to make the P4K look like the BMPCC then I think there are a bunch of things in there we can learn. Yes, that's a pretty big change, but we can always apply the different adjustments at varying levels of severity according to taste. At the very least we'll all learn something. I don't have a P4K or BMPCC but I'm still up for it because trying things is the only way to really advance, and I know you guys can see stuff that I can't so I'm keen to see through your eyes as it were. I'm talking a new thread, posting comparison clips, sharing what adjustments I made, taking feedback from the group, and really trying to nail it. Who can shoot the clips?

And actually, it would be even better if we could get a GH5 shot in there too. That way those GH5 owners who are fans of the classic look (like me!) can also benefit. Maybe a P4K, BMPCC and GH5 lineup perhaps?

@webrunner5 @thebrothersthre3 @Emanuel I agree that we should be able to degrade the P4K footage to look like the older cameras. Things like bit-depth, resolution, or noise can't be improved, but given a sufficiently high-quality source I think that the 'look' should be able to be replicated. If anyone owns the P4K and other relevant "classic" cameras and is willing to shoot a short clip of the same scene (with both cameras right next to each other and recording at the same time) then I'll give it a red-hot go to "fix" the P4K footage and share the settings of how I got there.

I don't think this is how it works. Yes, they can probably spread, but I get the impression that viewing infected lenses as contagious and the rest of the world as sterile is missing the point. All the articles (including that one from Zeiss) say that fungus is everywhere, in the air. Ask yourself how the spores got to where they are in these lenses - between two glass elements with only a tiny gap between them. I'm pretty sure that fungus spores can't move, so this is where the spore landed. This is a fun article: https://www.uni-mainz.de/presse/13180_ENG_HTML.php So, either you never take your camera out of the box (actually, they don't box them in a clean room - too late!) or you just store things so that they don't grow. I'm kind of tempted to use the other ingredients as they have them in the grocery store, and whatever I post here will be useful to more people when I work out the concentrations etc. It would be nice for this thread to be the one I was looking for, instead of the blind-leading-the-blind threads or only-half-the-information-required tutorials.

Sony propaganda is alive and well I see...

Not seeing anything interesting over my GH5, but I guess we'll see.. The GH5 got lots of goodies via firmware updates after launch, so maybe these will too. Speaking of the potential for updates, 8K is conspicuously absent.

I was there for the first time in December, family in tow. It was a great trip, just the right amount of difference as you say, high-tech toilets included! I've read and heard so much about Japan that I felt like we didn't scratch the surface much. We stayed in an airbnb away from the tourist areas and caught trains everywhere, but I think we just didn't get off the beaten path as much as I would have liked. I would have liked to go to some of the more local food places, ramen especially, but the kids are picky and getting four adjacent seats in those tiny places where it's just the chef and the vending machine outside seemed pretty unlikely. We were only there for a few days, so if there was a bit more time I might have ventured out by myself and blundered through a some local experiences. I've put it on my (very short) list of countries to re-visit. Most countries get put a long way down the list when you have a choice of being somewhere you've been before or visiting somewhere new, but Japan is an exception for me. The other is Hong Kong, which I really liked - stress free with plentiful English speakers, but busy and interesting with lots of foreign things to look at and experience. It's gradually getting absorbed into China, so the homogenisation of globalisation will be slightly counteracted as it becomes more Chinese again. I used to pride myself on not watching TV, but I think I have to shift my perspective on watching YT to it being the same as TV. That will be a bit of a shock internally when I do! You're right about where you live being less important than how you live. Wherever we live, if tourists visited they'd be fascinated and taking photos of all sorts of interesting things that we drive past while thinking about going on holiday to wherever they live. My list of places I think I would like to live in part-time is Australia (base of operations and family), Hong Kong, and somewhere in Europe. The wife is pretty fond of Italy, but we recently spent a month there and the people weren't as friendly as she was anticipating. I've got friends who live in Spain and they say it's nicer than Italy and a lot cheaper too, but they'd have to convince the wife, and the heart wants what it wants and all that

Jeez. This would have to be one of the best production-value-per-dollar things you can buy. In the list under "buy first camera", "buy first microphone", "buy first tripod", and "learn how to use lighting"

Japan is one of the places that an old-school WTF travel experience is still available in the modern age. Many big cities are understandable now because of things like google translate (especially the augmented reality camera mode) and the common basis of Latin derivative culture, there are differences of course, but not "I've been watching this for an hour and still have no idea" type situations. In Japan you point Google Translate at the writing and it doesn't recognise the font, you look at the people and everyone keeps to themselves, shopkeepers look at you blankly if you speak to them in English, and you watch what people are doing and often it makes no sense. Of course, that's off the beaten track away from the tourist areas, but still, quite fun! http://blog.adw.org/2016/10/eight-stages-rise-fall-civilizations/

Wow. That would change things a little!

Yeah ???

That is truly impressive, and gives really natural looking movement too. I'm assuming that you have some kind of remote control with variable speed? If something like the Osmo could use a phone to detect angle (like those point-where-I-point remotes for the Ronin etc) and you had a left-right control for the tracker you'd have a really intuitive control system. String one of these between two trees at a venue and you're set. It's not as easy to position as a 360 camera on a extendable pole, but the movement is next level. Very nice!!

Not a bad discount, although I can't help notice that less people are buying this than those audio plugins. I wonder why? ???

Yeah, I've moved house a lot, and in some ways I feel like if I had just had a single house growing up and one or two as an adult I'd have had more time and energy to invest in other things. Moving house is kind of a major project that you wouldn't want to do more than once a year. I'd be a lot of major projects ahead of where I am now, that's for sure. Then again, if you just stop watching TV and do projects instead you can accomplish quite a lot over time. I read a book about being an expat and it was interesting. One of the things that it mentioned was that every place you go is an opportunity for you to see how other people live and to potentially adopt a few of their habits into your life. Unfortunately as you get older you fit into any single culture less and less, and when you come 'home' you find that you no longer fit in there either. There's definitely challenges that go along with the glossy postcard moments! Actually, we're not so different in terms of size: https://www.commsec.com.au/content/dam/EN/ResearchNews/2018Reports/November/ECO_Insights_191118_CommSec-Home-Size.pdf Average size of new homes in US 202.0sqm and Australia 186.3sqm. Existing houses would be interesting to see the stats on, but I think that the US has more extremes. Yes, there are huge McMansions that Australia doesn't have that many of (we do have some) but we also have far less apartments than the US. It's easy to get caught up in the "everything in the US is bigger" hype (those Texans sure talk a big game) but we're getting closer in car sizes too. The most common cars here are large family vehicles, which are a lot more popular here than smaller cars like Corollas or whatever. The US is still beating us though, but only because they're desperately trying to overcompensate for something... https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/australia-taking-on-american-love-of-big-cars-38036 Besides, Texas is pretty small actually.. it's not even the largest state in the US