anonim

4 hours ago, shooter said:

. In my opinion, the new low light model only came...

First usage and practicing of new sensor. Also preparing justification and buyers to 3000$/euros or more as price of next, more complete model - jump of 1000$ is harder to digest without raw or similar sensational add.

Anyway, there's no, of course, just one angle o view. As uploaded footage proved, Panasonic did marvelous job and GH5s is not at all unattainable for ready buyer of GH5 or new Fuji etc. Panasonic has to make profit for investing to even more advanced achievement - although footages as such indeed and already show fully absent limit for big-screen-reproduction capability.

@jonpais Totally nothing clever, needless to say, but - If I've invested in Veydras and mostly use Zhiyun Crane - GH5s with its iso 3200 OOC professionally usable limit is an easier choice.  (Maybe just waiting a bit for price to drop more or search for the most usable bundle offer. But, life is short and every day shorter - 100s of dollars expense are not, luckily, horror for us. Probably there's no better investment, regarding enjoy and aliveness it could bring.) Of course, if it is possible to find/approve usage for both cameras - even better.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

It’s nice to get a brief reprieve from all the garbage virtuosic gimbal work, gratuitous speed ramps and drone footage that pollute the internet and that have nothing at all to do with the vocabulary of good filmmaking.

Yes, yes. Momentarily I'm Richard III and am giving everything in kingdom for the one horse - location, location (bien sûr, without budget :)

33 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@anonim a great location and a lovely girl..

Yes, I thought precisely about that. It's not a joke.... Before me I have a shooting short film idea/scenario near 100% exactly congruent in atmosphere and changing-state-of-mind usage with that in Chiesa's footage (but with largely more massive metaphysical message pretension)... But I'm hardly struggling with appropriate locations - and that's what I thought mentioning great disposal circumstance. For stuffs as jibs, cranes and dollies I don't care - I'm not tending to shoot action or Pepsi movie.

What I suggest - it is just that quoted footage doesn't really need ISO value higher than 1600 - my finding is that up to iso 1600 there's no DR difference between 's or GH5 (except for better resolution of GH5), so I have no doubt it can be equally well accomplished with GH5 and matching grading (if necessary). And yes - Veydra Mini Primes or Voigtlanders are highly suited for task.

I'd like to have GH5s - but I'm stingy. For my needs GH5 simply has better value than GH5s. Temporarily idea of Panasonic is obviously to have both. But for price difference which is in fact much more than 500$ (regarding alternative market affordability) - I, as devote customer, can't justify it.

I'm sure naive - but I like to think that user/buyer base can at least tiny tiny little bit discipline manufacturer/seller. Price reduction of GH5s will maybe show it.

But not to be a weasel, I repeat although probably being wrong - most of us could accomplish highly-most of the tasks without GH5s lowlight or dual gain temporarily solution - which doesn't impress me yet in now existing incarnation.

Panasonic obviously could firmware-updatebly make the same and match what missing between versions - but, from the other side, I'm so glad about existence of such enthusiasts and freelance connoisseurs as @Sage

http://emotivecolor.com/in-depth.html?v=1.1

27 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Stunning footage. Case closed.

Not yet for me, unfortunately,  as niggard buyer

This was done with extremely showcase accuracy - everything was obviously at disposal: location, lights, objects, materials, 3500 $ lens with near highest possible discerning power.

Colors are supreme - at least for my taste and for that goal/character of image I'm searching for (neutrality type of Alexa's or Varicam like - and suspecting not to find in Fuji, as I so boringly wrote in other, new Fuji camera topic).

But face of the girl slightly or slightly+ lucks details - quality of colors and detailness are not top-notch balanced. Noise reduction is obviously very hard.

Not that I'm not impressed and highly content... but as extremely cautious buyer weighting for my money investment - I'll jump over GH5s. There's anything in this footage and circumstances GH5 couldn't done also. For this clip IBIS with Locked-option is enough. Used fujinon lens has only T2.9 - so ISO value here (and automatically activation of enormous NR even at -5 level of GH5s) had to be pretty high.

Come on Panasonic... just a GH5 and GH5s integration. As I wrote here - for my best consideration, GH5s was unnecessary and silly overpriced middle step. Maybe just to show excellent intention to devote user...

(GH5s price reductions in bundled offers started faster than any time earlier - in fact, immediately after base product showed up in the market.)

I'm not sure where to post it, so here also... It seems to me the best so far done/looks (at least what and how I've seen) achievement of GH5s...

It seems to me the best so far done/looks (at least what and how I've seen) achievement of GH5s...

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

@EmanuelLet’s assume for a moment...

I'm not optimist...

@Matthew Hartman

Maybe, we'll see... I'm slowly warming-up Jester with broken English

BTW How nice is your surname - I immediately imagine of whom of to-me-dear creator are you descendant - the Nicolai Hartman, the Heinz Hartman, the Karl Amadeus Hartman...

Nice theme, I think. Simply, I need a more complex language to express - or, better, striving to express - more complex thoughts and feelings.

To be honest, I don't think that photography could be (for Westernian type of mind) in all extensity - repeat: in all extensity - form of art as great literature or classic music. Yes, it has precious dignity of skills and taste and knowledge. Yes there are great photo testaments of compassion and capability to extricate significant moment from banality - and as so, help to better experience the world. (And yes, I little disagree with Susan Sonthag and agree with Walter Benjamin.) Maybe it is similar to haiku poetry.

But it is impossible to express - or, better - to completely involve, as sort of full-senses initiation, other man in haiku as in, say, Beethoven's Eroica.

Further thinking, it seems to me that photography maybe is much more closer to sort of feeling/thinking/expression of Eastern mind? There always existed that wonderful feeling for moment, for profound non-ego encounter with mistery of nature and existence.

Western greek/judeochristian civillization and state of mind always relayed on inner and outer drama, complexity, struggle, personality - and its picks of art and distinctive philosophy are such that can embrace world of turmoil complexity, as in Servantes, Goya, Shakespeare, Dostoyevski, Beethoven-to-Mahler/Shostakovich symphonies...

Probably that's the reason why I'm longing for video/movie as language, greatly respecting type of mind and spirit that stay behind profound photography masters.

Just to confirm that this orientation indeed have sense. In one of the topics about new lowlight capability of GH5s I upload the same shot done with GH5 but with Resolve's temporal NR, both at iso6400 - result is near identical. So, I expect that it is possible to smooth-up macroblocking artefacts, but, of course, result is - smooth.

Neat Video temporal reduction is better, but much much slower than Resolve. Spatial NR of Resolve is extremely slow and demands very powerful computer to work.

@jonpais

Oh, if you didn't already try Blackmagic's and raws, allow me to suggest it... and enjoy with you. Claiming from the most beautiful and most sincere and creative point of view - as pure aficionado - working with BM raw clips is another league of enjoyment.

But why I didn't keep them? First - to finance further exploration. Second - I hate (well, not exactly) rigs, cables, looks of serious cameraman. Third - when I had BM cameras, there's no yet Zhiyun crane quality and price.

Allow me just one point: I have always with me some movies. One of them is Malick's Knight of Cups. Why? Every single shot is max 3 sec. long... camera is in constant unsettled flow... angles are strange... light is always natural... Lubezki did it without preparation, without burden of instruments. I know you already understand... freedom. With GH5 (or Fuji or BM and gimbal) we can make pure poetry, no worse than Knight of Cups.

But we first have to raise and carry such malick-ean poetry in ourselves. That's what is missed, and what is extremely hard in West consumer world. Culture. Education and, moremoreover, self-educational passion. Sensibility and compassion. Malick's work on Heidegger. And... not to, sadly, ask and feel cool: is the hermit from Varanasi crazy?

@kidzrevil

Thanks, but allow me to say that I really know all of that - just because I have certain experience in these matters. Answering you, I feel little bit ashamed to wrote the same thing third or four time (more over because you already downvoted it once)... Judging from showed clips, I think that Fuji is great especially as photo-result tool; what I suspect is that longlong string of images manipulated in such brilliant manner (very precise and subtle color balance, sharpening and saturation, inward illumination) become distractive or, trying to say in other word, too selfexposing... That's all. For my taste and shooting goal/specific task - I'm searching for the most natural reproduction - of course, as I subjectively see it - not for the most beautifull.

BTW your works are very instructive and interesting examples of not-being-seduced with modern ideal of sharpness, even detailness. Calling some examples from history of art - Isaac Levitan instead of Ivan Shishkin...

14 minutes ago, jonpais said:

At the very least, I’d wait until they iron out problems with the camera freezing when adjusting audio levels, distorted audio monitoring, recording starting when touching screen to focus, after manually focusing with focus assist, picture not resizing when initiating recording, waving a hand in front of the EVF interferes with external recorder/monitor, top LCD not distinguishing between DCI and UHD 4K, when using external mic and switching to off in menu, audio can still be heard, when finished recording, camera takes too long before next clip can be recorded, picture size and menu layout structure in the EVF will change when switching between the manual focus mode and one of the other autofocus modes. 

Such quirks really are not "peanuts". I'm not even considering them yet... Regarding your advice, I'm now more tending to buy BMPCC - third time I had it twice and sold, and last time I told myself I'll buy it again and keep forever when it costs me about 400 euros. That is the moment... but know I swear that I really will buy one more camera (for pure enjoy) when Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5 with m43 mount first appear for 600 euros.

That's my little invention for curing GAsyndrome...

37 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

LOL What have you written, Dennis?! Don't dare to say a Fuji camera is better than any of the usual suspects when people already left their pennies for, especially in that subject sensitive matter... :D Fuji can't be more cinematic than any other because it is not! :X As simple as that hehe when people simply don't let it be so... *cough cough* Don't dare to say highlights rolloff are sweet and look like smoother than GH5 either. Even if you and me, we have been two of the best supporters Panasonic may afford... without demanding payback points to redeem whatsoever ;-)

It becomes strange... such a triumphal tone on scene... supported by onomatopeic signs: LOL :D *cough cough*... what's next level Emanuel? Did you sometimes read your lines and conclusions or always acts as baby: People that don't think as you are: "crippled by mother nature", idiots tied for objects thеy "already left their pennies for"... while you are martyr who was "crucified" in this forum, forced to keep "tongue at cheek". Now I'm professionally interested: what do you think, now when you are obviously show all of us your full selfadmiration glory after being crucified... will you resurect with Fuji roll-off traces to us ignorants?

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

@anonim And how are you set for lenses? Your two Voigtlanders aren’t compatible with Fuji. If you’re shooting professionally and $800 is a hardship, my advice would be to stick with the camera you’ve already got.

It's not problem to sell GH5 and Voigtlanders. I have long way behind in testing/playing/shooting cameras and lenses, and I somehow managed to always keep minimal and best suited for my needs. So it is not too hard to get also and Fuji - if it's necessary I have many friends and.... well, supporters, abroad. But I like to try, am open to every advance steps, although shooting is my third- or fourth-ish activity. I waited Fuji to get IBIS, playing with friend's XT2. But from what I've seen so far - all in all, as semiprofessional tool, it suits to my needs less than GH5.

@jonpais

Especially Fuji - no. But, I suppose more important - testing here is impossible... touch and buy. And most important - if price in USA is 2000$, here will be 2300 euros...

2 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

As far as color science is concerned, each camera is like its own film stock. Pick one with the colors and characteristics you like ! Oh & learn how to grade...even in 8 bit you have a decent amount of wiggle room to correct individual colors. As far as the data rate is concerned 200 mbps is more than sufficient. Thats like 5x the amount of data you need to stream 4K without compression artifacts. I think the X-H1 and any other camera made after 2016 is a great camera. Technology is advanced now and its only our creativity that needs to catch up.

Indeed - but I think that about every sentence you wrote we all here have consensus... or not?

Where my question begin is: I'm trying to understand/learn what "camera film stock" is best suited for concrete task.

Soon I have to shoоt one short movie, about 30 min long or more and I'm willing to jump to Fuji x h1 if I find it has advances for my need. But, besides ergonomic question, I've so far found that concept of color usage of this camera is very interesting, attractive, suggestive and likable at first 1000 glances, but - after some time, color concept alone becomes the main actor in my eyes - too noticable, i. e. as we are not naturally involved in scene, but being aware that we are obviously in reproduction of scene. Something in reproduction starts to call attention to itself.

"Arguments" in form of statements that Fuji color science is universally recognized as good, and some others not - or, as @kidzrevil in quotes generously/tutorially suggest, that today all are equally good and - just we have to learn to pick and use them - doesn't help too much.

My simple conclusion so far regarding buying advice - if I have to shoot, say, music or presentation video, or fast informative documentary - this camera may suit for these purposes par excellence. For longer narative I'd rather choose camera with more neutral or "muted" color approach. Leaving aside questions of battery, codecs etc. - and question of post processing adaptability.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nope, still not impressed with F-LOG.

A bunch of mashed oranges and blues.

None of this early footage has any punch to it.

Yes, but as I learned from this topic, what you called mashed oranges and blues is highly esteemed image and make huge impression to some masters who are not "crippled by mother nature" - to quote courteous Mr Emanuel. Very interesting experience: trying to express some doubts about Fuji color strategy - judging from these examples - results here as hardest blasphemy!

1. Maybe preAI Nikkor set as very low budget - I think @kidzrevil largely use them and you can find many very nice footages of him here and elsewhere - especially if you prefer slightly softer movie aesthetic.

2. I personally tried also many sets of vintage glasses - so I have nothing to add new to extensively elaborate answers: Leica R or Zeiss Contax/Rolleiflex are equally wonderful long-time - and through many camera system - valuable sets with well known different aesthetics. Some of them are not too pricey (200-400e), some could be. Germany and EU are big market, you may find lot of nice offers.

You may look to very instructive youtube channels - Matt Rice, for example, or frequent member of EOSHD Mattias Burling...

Zoom about - Zeiss Contax 24-85 is some sort of vintage wonder... I also like Leica R 28-70. Neither of them is not too pricey today.

(Saying that, I'm sure you already know more than me - but lets pretend that it is not so

6 hours ago, Emanuel said:

@anonim@jonpais without mention more than an opinion their superior color science is a solid fact to everyone except those crippled by mother nature when only protanopia does them be unable to see...

 

Yes, very significant opinion... maybe just looks like little bit vulgar and achromatopsic.

14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would bet if Jon would have said the above pictures were from this new Fuji camera everyone on here would have said Shit, they look great, I am buying that Beautiful color output Fuji Today LoL.

Yes, but luckily in all similar selfie-myths there is one Bearer of truth who wake up in the last minute and come out against everyone else how blindly follow figure of seductive Moderator...

21 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

...it seems to me that they are just crazy homeless people? 

Old story, Inazuma, which repeats always in some kind of men.

Once upon a time there was in a Greek town Sinopa a man called Diogen who lived in the barrel. According to legend, Alexander the Great (you know, that one who was played by Colin Farrel in the movie) came to visit this guy Diogen - who was some sort of freethinker and freelancer. Alexander wanted to fulfill a wish for Diogenes and asked him what he desired. According to the version recounted by one historic, Diogenes replied "Stand out of my light."

So, he obviously was longing for pure and unclosed view to the Sun and its light.

Was he crazy? I don't know, but he has one similarity with m43 camera shooter: he loves light... So, he is dear to me, as also a guy from Varanasi.

20 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

You should remember when I literally am used to my customary tongue-in-cheek when people underestimate Fuji clips because of 8-bit output.

Emanuel, in spite of everything, keep faith with you... knowing that such examples of injustice were inevitable destiny of all profoundly Righteous ones...

1 hour ago, Matthew Hartman said:

@anonim

Couldn't resist...:)

 

Under your coaching, we together made new one... FujiFilm: "Want to be more real than atmosphere?... Answer is obvious: Fujifilm/Varanasi!"

(I know, I know - always when I'm trying to be witty, I come out stupid... but I'm still keep trying.)

Now I don't know what to think... two authorities which I equally deeply respect suggest me different attitude... Emanuel: "Imagery is not real, it is always fake!" ... Matthew Hartman: "Trust your eye"... And it seems there's no Mattias to resolutely resolve this dilema... Moreover sage Webrunner is still mute about that question, which is significant sign. There's no even good sober Jon Pais with his dancers from American in Vietnam movie to help... Damn!

All in all, I feel myself little bit confused and desperate... Last time I remember similar filling was when Krishna explained to me something about reality at the field of Kurukshetra, but I was too stupid to understand.