Django

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

I think you'll be fine because even with old manual lenses that aren't even recognised by the camera (you enter the focal length when you mount the lens) the IBIS performance seems historically to be as good as with Panny lenses using body only.

While it's true that Panasonic only offers one lut for all models, there is only one V-Log curve (except for V-Log L which is the same shape as the regular curve, just truncated at the top) and no matrix options for prosumer models (there are on the Varicam). I hear you that Sony and Canon offer a variety of transformations for different log curves and matrices, but do they offer model-specific transformations? If not, then the situation is effectively the same as for Panasonic, whereby a a transformation is offered for a given gamma and a given gamut, the only difference being there is a single gamma and gamut for V-Log and multiple gammas and gamuts for S and C-Log. This can't account for the differences in colour response between sensors. Maybe Sony and Canon cameras don't vary as much in that regard, who knows?

Canon tweaked their CS with the mirrorless line. You have the option when shooting log to choose either original or neutral.  I have tons of official C-Log transform LUTs including (non official) model-specific ones . There is quite a big resource around Slog & Clog. I don't follow Sony so closely but they have for sure tweaked and improved their CS. They also provide S-Cinetone derived from VENICE.

I guess I'm just kind of surprised that Panny, a company often touted for its cinema specs, has only got one V-Log curve. Even Fuji who's only had log curves in recent cameras has introduced a flatter FLOG2. 

So I guess my follow-up question would be how does V-Log compare to S-Log3, C-Log2 & FLog2? 

Hmm wonder if that means the same holds true for native lenses also? Kinda strange, usually IBIS+OIS = best stabilisation.

 I'm doing some research on L-mount lenses and it seems very few lenses even have OIS? Few zooms and zero primes.

Guess I shouldn't be too worried as Panasonics IBIS has such a good reputation..

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I didn't quite say that. I said it had "a half-assed curve", and go on to explain what I mean by that (a mild contrast curve with elevated blacks where middle grey is not at the correct value). It's an easy fix for anyone who knows how to use basic colour correction techniques, which I presume you do.

Hopefully, I'd rather not have to spend time fixing the curve though.

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Pannys colour conversion is basically sound, with the caveats that colour is not entirely accurate and that the same conversion is used for different models with different colour responses. But I'm sure that's true for Canon and Sony true.

Actually no, Canon & Sony offer a vast amount of conversion sets that fit just about every gamma profile / curve. So its usually just a matter of finding the one that suits your camera model. Also Canon & Sony cameras offer 3 log curves with various color matrix settings. Panasonic just seems to have "VLOG". Across all cameras, is that correct?

6 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

All log profiles take some time to get used to, but I really don't think Vlog is any more difficult to work with than other log profiles. I don't mean to downplay anyone's opinion in that other thread, but they're just that: someone's opinion and there's only a couple of people giving them in there. You'll find tons of folks who have differing ones. 

No doubt, which is why again I'd love to get my hands on some footage and test it out myself!

Switching systems is way too big of a deal to simply rely on someone else's opinion. 

By the way it's not just Vlog but overall colour science I'm also curious about.

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

Don't be put off by that! I would assume that the observations I make there regarding V-Log colour are the same for other flavours of log, ie: that different methods of gamut conversions (or non-conversions) will be more or less accurate to objective colour.

I don't see how working with V-Log would be more difficult than C or S Log.

You are the one in that thread that stated the official V-Log to V709 LUT was "half-assed" and that in Resolve color space transform, the conversion brought issues.

The rest of thread is people saying how exposing V-log is tricky..  and that "REC709 monitoring is trash on Panasonic".

All of that seems very specific to Panasonic / Vlog. Never heard such issues with C-Log / S-log.

All Log footage doesn't grade the same, so I'd like to see for myself. Perhaps you could provide some S5ii Vlog footage to test?

29 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The ability to shoot in 3:2 is a big selling point for the people I know in that realm, because they're creating content for multiple platforms that all favor different aspect ratios and resolutions. For those types, the combination of that, the IBIS, and the autofocus, is a really compelling combination. And the thing about them is, a lot of them aren't heavily invested in lenses for the cameras they are currently using. A lot of them may only use two or three lenses. 

That would be me. The 6K 3:2 is the number one appeal. Mainly for multi aspect ratio purposes but also anamorphic use.

I am invested in Canon but mostly EF. I'd only need to sell 2 RF lenses, none L so minor financial loss. 

The IBIS, PDAF and video assist tools all check boxes too so really on paper its a very tempting option.

Again, for me, it is how the files are going to look and be treated that concerns me. 

I can grade Clog & Slog in my sleep but Vlog is a mystery and even threads like this don't inspire confidence:

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/

hmm.. but doesn't the Sigma MC-21 adapter kinda invalidate his point? As a Canon user myself, the above AF results on EF adapted lenses are rather impressive and could bait me to switch. I've said it before but the S5ii is the first ever Panasonic camera I've got on my radar.

As for GH6, I think its target remains M43 lens lovers. Most of them use manual glass so AF is maybe not as important, and the camera still has some exclusive features such as internal ProRes and the dual gain sensor.

I do suspect the very delayed release of S5iiX to be calculated in an effort to avoid cannibalising S5ii & GH6 sales. I find this strategy kinda sneaky. For only $200 extra why would you go with S5ii over S5iiX once both are available?

Anyways I look forward in testing out some S5ii Vlog footage. How it grades is really the main question mark I have regarding switching. Hopefully maybe someone here can provide some! 😉 

12 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

Holy **&t you are shooting Paris FW? Now I am seriously jealous, I shoot all of the big fashion shows here in FL with the biggest being Miami SW. I was invited to NYFW and Paris FW, but no one was willing to pay for my travel. For fashion shows I've got my kit down to a single Lowepro bag and a tripod....I shot Miami SW with the C70 and R5. This year I plan on trying just the C70 and R7.  In the bag I've got my mini XLR shotgun mic, Sennheiser wireless transmitter/receiver + lav mic, side handle for the C70, C70 in a cage, and R5 is just rigged with a shoulder strap for photography. I was able to shoot all of Miami SW, interviews, vendors, models, promo videos, etc. with just that setup.

As far as color grading VLOG goes, I think anything can seem like anything if you pixel peep, if you just get out and shoot and grade until the footage looks good to you and your customer that's all that really matters. When looked at from that viewpoint, VLOG was no worse for me than CLOG.

This year I plan on trying the R7 to see if I can add a bit of walking as well without a gimbal and to be able to switch between the R7 and C70 for video. The R7 will take over for handheld video and photography, C70 for interviews and the runway walks. I tried the monopod thing and couldn't make it work, monopods feel so limiting and still not as stable as a tripod or as dynamic as handheld, even without IBIS I would rather handheld over a monopod.

It does sound like the R3 checks a lot of boxes for you as well, you definitely cannot go from a fully rigged R5C to photography very easily. I don't get why the R5C is so bad on battery life; it doesn't have to power IBIS and its the same sensor as the R5. You could set it up like I did with the C70, where it slides easily into a nato rail V-mount battery setup for long form and slides off into a handheld setup for shorter shoots and gimbal work. That is also how my R7 is setup.

Below is a picture of my setup. The S5 is in the picture but the C70 and R7 both slide right into the same top tripod mount. I use the bottom tripod plate to mount the whole thing to a tripod. For fashion shows I setup the tripod and nato/v-mount (and to hold my spot in the pit), then slide off the camera and go shoot b-roll until the show starts. Of course you still would have that IBIS problem with the R5C and the slower AF......so there's no way around that if you go with the R5C

I know PFW sounds impressive but being based in Paris it’s really no big deal, its local work for me. It’s a big scene, I focus on a tiny part of it. Mostly doing BTS stuff and indie shows so no real pressure, I’m rarely even in the pit. Yet still, it’s definitely more intense than what I’m used to. These are situations when gear choices become key and sometimes less is more (a body or two vs three/four). 

Speaking of runway fashion, I remember you were complaining about the R5’s EVF lag making you miss some shots like during hair flips and what not. It seems you have sorted out those issues but that is one area where R3’s stacked sensor should give ultimate confidence with no lag, fast refresh rates, top AF and that eye-control AF sounds nuts. I just have a hunch R3 would actually be great for fast paced events. It’s another reason why I’m leaning towards it.  

Getting back to R5C and its poor battery life, its mostly due to the cine OS. All those assist features pump a whole lot of juice, I wish Canon would implement some kind of energy saving feature because it’s kind of a deal breaker. As gt3rs said, the battery grip is the most practical solution, so probably what I’d go for hybrid shoots. But losing IBIS is another big one. That’s two strikes against R5C as main body.

C70+R7 sounds like a solid combo. I’d love a C70, have been eyeing it since release. Love the DSLR type form factor. Like I said I was a C100/C200/C300 + EOS combo shooter for years, but shifted to Sony FS7 couple years ago, mainly for chunky 10-bit and because Sony is more of an industry standard for video. I rarely do everything in-house so have to play ball with editors, colorists etc. But now that Canon has finally given 10-bit and compressed RAW to its entry C cams, I might revert back. It kinda sucks being on dual systems even though it's been a good business strategy for me. 

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

It sounds to me like you've already talked yourself into the R5C 🤣. Nothing else short of the C70 will give you all of those tools in that form factor and obviously the C70 has its own long list of downsides.  I think its going to come down to how important is IBIS to you and are you ok dealing with the external battery pack. Keep in mind too that the R5C is lighter than the C70 so handholding it without IBIS would be even harder unless you just plan on using a gimbal a lot more. 

No I haven't talked myself into anything yet, still weighing options. My first choice still remains R3 as it ticks off IBIS, battery life, overheat, best AF, vertical grip, 6K RAW compressed and 4K60p oversampled.. only a bit more expensive than a rigged out R5C and a much more elegant solution imo. No more cine features but for critical condition shoots, my atomos could always help handle things. 

R5C comes in second but no IBIS and poor battery life is a major PITA. So I'd end up rigging R5C, either battery grip + cage or external battery + cage. Add a top handle and a side grip or shoulder kit like in the video you linked and you've got a decent weight/balance rig. Still not IBIS level plus you are no longer that versatile for hybrid video/stills shooting.

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

One thing that does counter the missing IBIS is lens IS so lens IS combined with digital IS on the C70 made life a bit more tolerable; thats if you have lenses with lens IS. I would imagine that the R5C with lens IS and possibly some digital IS would make it more tolerable along with a cage and handles.

Yeah lens IS + EIS is always an option but it severely limits my lens use and adds that small crop. Its a workaround but not the most flexible solution. I've gotten so used to shooting FF no crop everything handheld on my R6, that going back to that feels so limiting. I really like shooting handheld on my mirrorless hybrids. And with all kinds of lenses including EF primes with no IS.

FWIW I've been shooting Paris FW events this whole week on my FS7, BMD cams and multiple EOS bodies for stills shooting. Tripods, shoulder rigs, gimbals etc. Honestly such a PITA dealing with all that gear on a crazy hectic schedule. Sucks the fun right out of it. I feel like either a R3/R5/R5C plus a monopod could have almost been enough for the job (not including R6ii/R7 as some parts of the job required RAW).

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

I loved VLOG out of the S5 and I was grading it within seconds in Davinci Resolve. Now though I am hooked on DR's managed color and I don't see a VLOG managed color option so that would be a step backwards, but I definitely didn't think it was hard to grade and I am far from a colorist. Not sure about CS, the XLR module stopped working with my S5 and it took them 2wks to fix it (towards the end of COVID restrictions) but it did get fixed; not sure if Canon would have been better. Of course I am just one user; overall it would surprise me if Canon didn't have better CS.

I have no idea but keep reading about grading issues such as in this thread here:

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/

Also if I was even considering switching over to Panny it would definitely be the S5iiX I'd want and that's not out until May.

The other alternative is Sony since I'm also invested in that lens ecosystem but the only options are FX3 which has no EVF so no good for my style of shooting and A7S3. 12MP stills, 4K max resolution and no internal RAW are too severe compromises though. Crazy because Sony is number one in the industry yet so behind tech wise in the mirrorless world..

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Its not easy being a Canon owner; as always with Canon you really need to pick your compromise 😄. There is one small detail though; the R5 is also dual ISO, its just rarely talked about. It's native ISOs are 800 and 3200. I did forget one big downside to the R5 which is that ridiculous 30min recording limit is still there. No idea what Canon is thinking leaving that in place.

Yeah I just looked into it and indeed R5 is also dual ISO but just not officially. On R5C there is a base ISO mode (kinda similar to Sony's EI mode) that locks you to ISO 800/3200 only. Kinda cool. As for the 30mn time limit, yeah that annoying. Canon removed it on R3/R5C/R7/R6ii. Don't forget R5/R6 are just second generation Canon mirrorless. It usually takes that third gen for such quirks to be ironed out. Same with Sony A7S series.

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

It is definitely a tough decision, I think when it comes to the R3 two more downsides would be the battery and the fixed grip. The battery because only other bodies that size use that battery so if you got a second body it would most likely be the smaller batteries. I really like being able to swap batteries between my R5 and R7. In fact, you probably already have some batteries left over from the R6 that you could use in the R5 and R5C.

I do have leftover R6 batteries (just realised it yesterday when going through camera bag)! But I disagree that the R3 battery is a downside. The LP-E19's hold double the capacity so that means less swapping and less charging which is clutch. I'll take that over multi body battery interchangeability. 

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

The other downside is the fixed grip. I know you would probably never take the grip off of the R5 if you got it but I personally have never used a camera with a grip on gimbal. I would imagine balancing a camera with a grip would be a PITA on a gimbal. With the R5C and no IBIS I would assume you would start using a gimbal more often. So it would be nice to at least have the option to take the grip off for gimbal work.

In the R3 video I posted above, the guy uses a gimbal just fine it seems. Keep in mind the R3 body is mega light despite its size. an R3 is lighter than a R5 + grip! That said I'm sure not any gimbal works with an R3. 

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Of course we could go full circle to the S5II, but there's the lens situation which locks you into L Mount or EF with an adapter.

No matter how you look at it though, its great to have these kinds of choices, will be interested to see what you pick.

Yeah the S5II does give you a whole lot for very money. Even has open-gate. But I saw some latest tests and the AF is still a work in progress, you can tell its first-gen PDAF. And yeah whole other lens ecosystem. Also been reading stuff here about Vlog being hard to grade and overall CS issues. This is where Canon really shines imo, you can throw anything at Clog and it always comes out good.

2 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

I also think a pro/con of the R5C specifically is how many options it gives you when it comes to the needs of a video shooter. From the codecs and monitoring options to the resolutions and the crops. Basically, if you want to just hit record and shoot, maybe the R5C is not for you - but if you're ok with having options AND remembering to adjust those options depending on your needs for any given shoot, then the R5C is great imo

To me this is a big pro for R5C. But I'm used to cine cams. I want all those options. You can have the ones you use the most inside My Menu. You can assign buttons for Q&S. Shutter angle alone is fantastic, set it to 180 degree and you no longer have to fiddle with shutter speeds when changing frame rates. Punch-in while recording to check critical focus. WFM, false color etc. On R5/R6/R3 all you have is that histogram that disappears once you hit record. Its a joke for serious work or complex scenes so you have to use an external monitor which adds weight and clunkiness. All of a sudden R5C with an external battery doesn't sound so bad! YMMV of course, as we see above depending on our requirements and user cases a pro can be a con and vice versa. It is interesting to hear how others shoot and view such things though!

@herein2020 I absolutely value your input, many thanks, but it ain't that simple. I've been shooting Canon since 5D mark1 and have had numerous bodies since, including cinema line (C100/C200/C300). I'm not just upgrading blindly from an R6. So I do really value the cine OS features such as focus/exposure tools, LUT support, XF-AVC, RAW Light, anamorphic de squeeze, unlimited recording, TC, smart hot-shoe etc. Those are the video features I'm missing. R6 was just a stop gap because I refused to spend 4.5K at the time for an overheating R5. C70 ticks a lot of boxes but no IBIS, S35, no high resolution, no stills and high price tag. 

In view of that, R5C is a mix of C70 & R5. The cine features, the fan, FF & 45MP. Downside is no IBIS, no NDs & battery life. The smart-shoe allows for the Tascam XLR unit so that's also a big plus. R5C also has dual iso so although the same sensor, better usage. And 4K60p isn't line-skipped.

R5 gives you back IBIS and ok battery life. Still need a grip. No smart-shoe. Potential overheating. It sort of feels dated and not really much of an upgrade from my R6 aside from 8K.

Then you have R3. up to 6K60p. No overheat. Pro body. IBIS. Stacked sensor. Best battery life. Killer stills specs.

It isn't an easy decision, there is no clear cut winner in everything. And I really just want one body that'll do it best.

2 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

 LP-E19 gives you two hours per battery which is the same as the battery grip option. The cost of an LP-E19 is $169US. Two LPE6NH cost $150US. Sure you need to buy the grip but once you do, I don't know that there's really that much of a difference tbh. But hey maybe I'm missing something? 

Here in EU, LPE19 is 169€ and 2xLPE6NH is 190€. R3 comes with a dual charger and I'd rather charge 2 batteries than 4.

R3 is lighter than R5C + grip, has IBIS.. and overall more solid/pro feel. Here's a video from a dude that switched from R5C to R3 and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points although in the end its kind of a toss up:

scratch that about the R5C+grip cage, it exists:

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-camera-cage-for-eos-r5-r6-r5-c-with-bg-r10-battery-grip-3464.html

@gt3rs Thanks for all the info! I actually used the same black mamba cage for my R6, didn't realise it also fit the R5C.

However it can't be compatible with the battery grip, which kinda sucks. Battery grip = no cage.

I did find a shop that sells the grip for 300€ so cool there are better deals but still 600€ with 3 extra batteries. Of course the benefit for me is vertical control for vertical shooting which again I do a lot (especially stills).

But the grip only takes 2 batteries so that's a whole lot of swapping, charging etc. I honestly don't like this solution, too much room for (charge) error, too much swapping which could happen in the middle of an event, missing key moment.

So yeah the external batteries seem better suited for long events. The Nano does have USB charging which is cool but yeah mounting it above the cage feels a little obstructive. The Anton Bauer is a lot more elegant imo, and indeed that Kondor D-tap to USB-C adapter/cable looks like an interesting solution as it also frees up your R5Cs battery compartment so you have internal + external power. I agree the cable looks clumsy with that box in between. Also it is backordered (like a lot of products on their website) do you know if they restock often ?

Gotta admit this whole battery conundrum is making me lean more again towards R3. I'd just need one extra LP-E19 to last me the whole day.

yeah I don't need 8K60p. so lets see, the grip + battery solution is elegant but expensive and you still need to swap batteries during the day:

3500€ body + 400€ grip + minimum 400€ (for 4 batteries). boom we're talking R3 money.

Kondor Blue Dummy battery ($40) to FXLion V-mount (180€) seems way more affordable plus no battery swap.

How is the V-mount attached to the cage? Almost looks like your on a hot/cold shoe.

What about Anton Bauer base battery kit (370€)? I like that it has quick release with mount holes. seems pretty elegant and they have a kit with dummy battery to P-Tap. 68Wh capacity should give you even more runtime than the FXLion?

Ok back to R5C. Taking a closer look at it and it does have a lot going on for it, including various crop modes, various RAW compressions, XF-AVC, 8K/5.9K/3K, anamorphic de squeeze, LUT support, focus assist etc. And active cooling (bye-bye overheat for good). I mean its basically like a high resolution C70 without NDs plus a 45MP camera. For 3500€. 

It's almost a no brainer on paper but I keep hearing about the dreadful battery life. I just have to wonder how bad is it? If the camera keeps dying on me this sounds like overheat caveat all over again. How many batteries do I need for a 4 to 5 hour shoot ? what portable USB-C external power works for it ?

Losing IBIS is going to suck but for handheld shoots I guess I could go for the IS RF STM lenses  (24mm, 35mm, 85mm) plus DIS.

Basically if I can sort out battery life and stabilisation, R5C could be the top contender.

17 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I know you can't wait that long, but I get the feeling the R5II is going to come along and really set the bar to another level, maybe the R6II would be a good stopgap until then since you consider the R7 a downgrade. 

Yeah I can't wait until R5ii and also Canon Europe will sell it with a premium just like R6ii which basically means 5K.

R6ii is 2900€ here which is equally ridiculous considering I can get an R5 now for 3000€ and an R5C for 3500€.

I'm trying to get best bang for buck which means not the latest Canon release.

@herein2020 Thanks for the feedback, good to know you've sorted out your issues with R5!

Well 8K compressed definitely tilts the balance more in R5 favour now. 

I really don't get why R3, the flagship doesn't have at least 6K ALL-I/IPB. Sounds like a real oversight.

Only problem I have with R5 is the line-skipped FF 4K60p.

It looks like for up to 4K60p R3 & R6ii are the best options. For higher resolution its R5/R5C followed by R3.

Decisions, decisions.

2 hours ago, gt3rs said:

From my time with the 1Dx II and 1Dx III I would say no, it does not really help that much the grip. And you can always use the grip on a R5 but is a pita on gimbals and imo does not help that much...
For vertical then is a another story but with R5 8k why would you shot vertical instead of just cropping as you have even more room to reframe?

I'm not sure that the video improvements of the R3 are worth the 1.5k euro difference vs R5..... if you plan to use a lot 6k RAW 50/60 then yes if not then imo is an overpriced R6 II.... 
 

I don't use gimbals much, I would definitely be adding the grip to R5 plus two batteries which is about an extra 600€ so now we're looking at only a 900€ difference with R3.

As for cropping in 8K or 45mpix, well like I said I'm not a fan of cropping on FF cameras. I shoot wide open a lot, close subject portraiture, and cropping doesn't suit that aesthetic. But of course high resolution does allow it when you have to shoot landscape. 

You do raise a valid point about the 6K RAW. I didn't quite realise R3 didn't shoot 6K Mp4 files. Whereas R5 does 8K h26x right?

Yeah I know about all those tips. I have an FS7 with no IBIS and use various techniques to stabilise.

He's using a huge URSA mini cine cam so not really relevant to the mirrorless world where small bodies need stabilisation.

I hate using gimbals and do a lot of handheld so IBIS + lens IS just works wonders for me.

But that does bring upon body size and ergonomics and that's imo another bonus for R3 imo. 

The bigger size and grip probably balances bigger EF/RF lenses better than the smaller R5/R5C/R6.

@gt3rs Thank you so much for such a detailed response! 🙂 

Price wise here are the best deals I've found:  3000€ (R5), 3500€ (R5C), 4500€ (R3). 

I need IBIS as I shoot indeed mainly 35mm/50mm/85mm. (with occasional 16mm).

I also need decent battery life and R5C + battery rig would price it not far from R3.

Downsides for R5 is line-skipped FF 4K60p & still some degree of overheat.

R3 has best battery life, 6K oversampled 4K60p, lowest RS, better low-light, best AF, best EVF etc..

MPix for stills is not important to me as I mostly do portraits and never crop.

So I am mainly leaning towards R3 for my needs as it just sounds like a solid safe bet. I shoot a lot of vertical (both stills and now video) so the grip form factor is really appealing. The long battery life, the stacked-sensor speed. Even the eye-control AF sounds awesome.

But you're right I could also start with an R5, it is the cheapest solution, and see if that works for me. 

If only R5C had IBIS and decent battery life it would be number one but as it is I have to rule it out completely I'm afraid.

Tell me about it, I was there for the whole DSLR video revolution. But then Sony came in with the mirrorless FF revolution with A7S in 2015 and boy did it take long for Canon to join in and catch up. EOS R (2018) had that weird 1.7x crop. Then R5/R6 (2020) were plagued with overheat issues. I mean it basically took until 2022 (R5C/R6ii/R7) to start having non overheating no compromise hybrids from Canon. Like we're just finally there in Canon land, so yeah of course they lost a lot of ground in the mirrorless video sector. They've been trashed in this forum alone for years, still have somewhat of a bad rep. 

Panny are in their own world I feel. Very loyal customer base. Mostly solo indie shooters. I know a few jumped over to BM. They have been ultra slow to adapt to PDAF needs so I think lost a few others to competition but with S5ii and on-going releases will probably gain them back. Solo operators really like their cameras and I understand why. Great video features, reliable hardware, always at a competitive price.

6 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

Random colours way too saturated. Really muddy shadows. Waxy skin tones. A simultaneous green and magenta tint to different parts of the image (how is that even possible?). And it always seems kind of hazy, as though there was condensation on the lens the whole time or something.

This is with multiple different cameras and operators, both with log and various colour profiles, across different projects and in different lighting conditions and climates (from San Francisco to Sumatra). The first time I came across S1H footage was as the post supervisor on a series in Hawaii and I honestly thought it was a condensation issue. I was constantly checking his camera for signs of fog, even got him to change filter sets entirely in case that was the issue.

Yikes. This along side the thread on Vlog transform issues is a total deal-breaker for an eventual Panasonic switch I was entertaining. These types of issues can be maddening although mixing and matching different camera footage is always a nightmare for me personally.

5 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

I think we're at the point where the image from most new cameras is good enough. Most pros in the mid-sector (corporate, lifestyle, web videos, social content, docs, some commercials, etc) understand that once you hit a certain level of image quality, other factors are far more important. They'll be more concerned about things like: Can I hand the footage off to another editor/agency and they'll know exactly how to handle it? Can I hire eight of them locally at short notice for a multi-cam shoot?  Does it still work if I need to shoot something that's not my regular style (this is where the Sony really shines as the FX6 is so versatile)? Will most AC's or 2nd shooters I hire know the camera well already? Are producers going to specifically be looking for owner/ops with this camera? If my lens gets smashed, can I find a replacement to buy/borrow/rent pretty quickly? These are the questions that form the difference between quality output, or a profitable business. 

These are the reasons why Sony dominates this particular market segment right now. 

Agreed 100%. Also why I invested in a Sony FS7 + lens system couple years ago. 

I've learned to appreciate the camera as a workhorse but still it feels utilitarian. 

I don't feel the need to upgrade to an FX6 and will probably just get an FX30 as a B-cam.

That being said, for smaller more personal projects and photography I remain faithful to Canon which is my preferred system (aside from a few stints with Nikon/Fuji). I just sold my R6 though and will most likely upgrade to either R5/R5C/R3.

But the Sony dominance is scary, it goes beyond just the pro video industry. When I show up with my Canon for a video shoot I get strange looks sometimes by random non pro people and even comments like " You're not using a Sony?". People are just kinda brainwashed to think video = Sony. Which ends up kind of being the case in the end!

Should also be mentioned R6/R6II uses full width 5K/6K oversampled image for their 4K60p. 

Versus a line-skipped 4K60p on R5. 

R6/R6II have by far the nicest FF 4K60p mode punching way above its class. 

5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Same here. That's actually what I love about the FX30. No crop at 50/60p. I can switch frame rates without having to worry about lenses and crop factors. With the speed booster, I can get FF up to 60p too without a crop factor if desired but mainly, I'm happy with APSC and the great lens selection that comes with it.

Yeah definitely a strong point for FX30!

41 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Ha OK I tried this today to help with the RS on the Canon R6 - and ran into overheating issues even quicker than I normally would. I can see it working great on cameras that don't overheat, but I guess that's not the R6...

Well yeah R6 overheats faster in 4K60. That's well documented. I shoot short clips and always turn the camera off between clips when shooting 4K60. On longer shoots I'd have the screen flipped out and even open battery and SD doors to minimise heat. By doing all that I never actually got stuck with the overheat but it was always something on my mind. 

Its the number one reason I sold the R6. No workaround was worth that stress.

Yeah from all the reports online, it seems like the 3.0 FW makes a substantial difference in video AF. A lot of users are claiming it is now finally on par with Canon/Sony. Interested to hear what owners here have to report. Is it really super sticky and no more pulsating/hunting? When multiple faces are on screen, no more hesitating?

1 hour ago, Al Dolega said:

 

Just to be clear, the RS halves on the S cameras when in APS-C mode as well. So the S5ii's 4K60 would be 10.5ms, same as my S1, which seems to be good enough for me. I very rarely see skew or wobble and I shoot fast action.

I mostly shoot 60p so that I have the option for slo-mo later (editing/finishing in 30p). I've been doing this at 180 degree shutter (so 1/120th), so when I use a clip at normal-mo it does have a touch of the "fast shutter" look, but I think this is less of an issue with 30p. I've been thinking about trying a 270-degree shutter with 60p (so 1/90th) to alleviate this, haven't tried it yet.

Oh yeah sure it will work on S5ii too but if you mostly shoot 60p then you are essentially paying FF for an APS-C cam.

When I switch to 60p I like the framing to remain the same so not a fan of cameras that crop on HFR shooting. It's a serious compromise imo.

Interesting thought about 270-degree shutter on 60p. I also often struggle with fast shutter look when shooting 180 degree (1/120) in 60p. I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks for the tip!