tomastancredi

This discussion thread is still going for a few good reasons.  It touches on an important consideration in film-making.
For instance, I made a short impressionistic travelogue film on the 5DMII 8 years ago.  Shot it with one old 50mm prime lens.  I think it looks great and I'm proud of it.  The fact that it's Canon's ho-hum 1080p is not the reason that film is received well from my targeted audience.  It's the material -- and the fact that what is there appeals to the viewer regardless of resolution.
Also in my library is a simple corporate film from 2009 that used a XH-A1, shot on VideoTape, for goodness sake. The location was an Audi design studio.  The place was illuminated like a giant soft box; looked great, featured a bunch of cool cars, and I made a bunch of weird creative choices in the shooting/editing.  That little vid still generates work for me.  Simply because of the brand name, content, and the overall look of the work.
If we talk about what is really necessary, let's be sensible.  It helps to consider that craft still carries the day.  Always has and will.  As it should.
That said, I shoot 4k when appropriate.  It's there to assist in the craft not define it.
Seeing as this thread is over a year old, I can probably imagine I've posted the same thing on here months earlier!

For anyone looking for a cheap 4K travel camera with a 30x zoom (!) that can have cinelike d then I can confirm that it can indeed be done for the Panasonic TZ80 
And if you are travelling through Stansted airport then if you go to the Dixons tax free shop then ask to buy the demo one as I've just been there and left it already enabled on C3 for you
 

OK
So for anyone wanting to try this, I have made a really simple method to do it.
I have tested this numerous times on my GX80 and it has lived to tell the tale but obviously do this at your own risk.
All that this process does is fool the camera into thinking its talking to the smartphone app and then the commands it sends are exactly what the smartphone app sends. Or would do if the smartphone app thought it was talking to a camera equipped with Cinelike D !
So as such it is only getting sent what the Panasonic app would be sending to it so there are no hacky or sneaky debug things getting sent to it. 
Again, though, proceed at your own risk.
Although I would say, if you’ve tried that region switching hack on YouTube with the 10 million key press combos during power up then you’re already brave enough to try this!
Bear in mind that my unit is a GX80 and the firmware is version 1.0
If you have a GX85 or have got a different firmware then I just don’t know because obviously I haven’t got any other devices to test it on.
 
Here we go then….
Follow these instructions exactly and you should have Cinelike D on your GX80/85
You will need a laptop or a phone with a browser, the camera and to download the simple html file attached.
 
1) Switch on camera and turn on wifi as though you were connecting the app and you should see the waiting screen on the camera
2) Load the Deploy Cinelike D.html file into your browser
3) Select ‘Handshake’ 
4) You should see the browser page change and it confirm that its connected to a GX80
5) Hit the back key on the browser
6) Select ‘Connect’
7) You should see the browser page change to say ‘ok’ and the camera give you an ‘Under Remote Control’ message
8) Wait until the camera screen shows you a live view
9) Hit the back key on the browser
10) Select ‘Deploy’
11) You should see the browser page change to say ‘ok’ and the camera should NOT now be displaying the Photo Style you had selected (i.e. Standard, Vivid etc) 
12) Cinelike D is now active on the camera
13) If you go into the menu on the camera and select Photo Style you will see that it is blank and you can’t navigate to other Photo Styles such as Standard etc. 
14) To restore the Photo Styles hit the back button on the browser and select ‘Restore’ and the camera will display the Standard photo style and you should then be able to go into Photo Styles and change them.
15) Repeat 9-14 to switch between them to your hearts content!
 
So, like other settings, the Cinelike D profile will persist when you switch the camera off so if you want to use the other Photo Styles again then you MUST go this process again to re-enable them.
However, if you would like to switch between them without using this method again (and who wouldn’t) here is a neat way round it.
When you’ve done Step 12 and got Cinelike D on, set all your other parameters (4K24p etc) as you’d like them and save these into C1 of the custom settings.
Then go to Step 14 and use the ‘Restore’ to get your standard Photo Styles back, set all your other parameters (4K24p etc) as you’d like them and then save these into C2 of the custom settings.
Now when you switch the camera on, you simply choose C1 to have Cinelike D or C2 for the standard Photo Styles and forget about using any nonsense about using browsers and wifi connections!
 
In couple of weeks I’m hoping to show you how you can do stuff like this and some other useful bits and pieces from a little hardware gadget that will work on the Panasonic cameras but have fun with this in the meantime.
DEPLOY CINELIKE D.html

Maybe he means the Tascam DR-10CS? (or DR-10X) I've mentioned it a few times. 
Doesn't have a mic built in however. 
Tascam have a few models kinda like the H1 as well, like the Tascam DR-22WL.

Saramonic is bringing out a recorder as well:
http://ironfilm.co.nz/saramonic-sr-vrm1-new-xlr-sound-recorder-coming-soon/

Im going to throw Panasonic into the equation, I just shot a Feature film with 6 Panasonic G7 cameras with Nikon Glass and Metabones XL speedboosters and Gini Rigs cages
 
G7 in 4k is an amazing camera I tested it at length against a RED Epic and Arri Alexa and we all prefered the image fom the Panasonic especialy in low light it out performed the Epic , so much cleaner image off the Panasonic no noise or fizz in the blacks like the Epic had.
I shot the movie with these lenses
Nikon 80-200 f2.8 'Bourne Lens'
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 'Bourne Lens'
Nikon 20-35mm f2.8
all on Metabones speedbooster XLs to give a Super 35mm field of view on the G7 it also made the f1.7 contant apperture zoom .
The Nikon Glass with the Metabones XL gives a look very similar to Zeiss Master Prime lnes its that sharp and good.
with those 3 lenses you can shoot your entire movie
 
 
 
 
 
see pic

Based on your guys highly valuable comments, here is another series. This time i compared STD -5/-5/-5/-5 with STD -5/-5/-5/0 to see how the image looks like with a "neutral" saturation.
Lets start with the OOC shots (4K 25p):
STD -5/-5/-5/-5

STD -5/-5/-5/0

And here is my grade:
STD -5/-5/-5/-5

STD -5/-5/-5/0

My conclusions: I had to lower the saturation by 25% for STD -5/-5/-5/0 to avoid turning my skin orange. After that, both shots look pretty similar. The -5/-5/-5/-5 is a tad darker and the -5/-5/-5/0 offers more detail in the shadows, yet has a bit more noise (although not unpleasing). If wanted i can supply the video files as well.

Mattias seems to have better search engines than I do for his 1dc and 5d3 pricing.  Everything I've seen is the 5d3 is holding onto the $1800k US mark (Plenty of people tried the Sony route and are buying back in; tired of adapters, poor ergonomics and fiddly adapters).  Hell it may have gone up a bit price-wise in the last few months IMO.  I'm on my 3rd 5d3 now having owned the first one for 2+ years.  They never stopped working; I just buy and sell too much gear.

Thank you very much! I have two layers, one with 7 nodes, another one on top duplicated and in Hardlight layermode- with two of the nodes altered.
I think one of the main things is one of the nodes of the lower of the two layers as seen on the Davinci screenshot below. Also attached a framegrab of a duck with colors I was really exited about to find in that 50p 28Mbit codec, with additional twixtor like slomo added!
cheers and regards

Indeed, amazing colors! beautiful...
how did you get that green? 

I dunno.... I think it is a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other!

I went with the Samurai Blade for my F3 and I keep on kinda wishing I had got the BMD VA instead.....   but deep down in my heart I feel sure if I'd got the BMD VA instead I'd be wishing I'd got the Samurai Blade instead! ha!

"Grass is always greener on the other side."

Hallo John!
loving your findings. Went for the A3G3 and A3M9, but on my G6, outside in the late afternoon sun with WB at 7200 Kelvin, shot at Natural all -2.
The image out of cam looked so lala. I don´t know if the Canon FDs "attract" IR polution. The 28mm definately has not its strengths in strong sunlight compared
to the 20mm 1.7 Pana Lumix lens. Paired the FD with a China Booster.
But what amazed me was what kind of color I got from grading the footage, as always with my G6 I am amazed by the "hidden" color in that 24Mbit codec.
Curiosity enough, I shot 50fps for slomo, so only 28Mbits for twice the frames per second. Still, codec holds up amazingly well.
So can you explain your reasoning behind the A3G3 a little bit more. I don´t think I completely understood the technical aspects you were explaining.
 
By the way, grade is from the 28Mbits for 50p, so almost half of the 24p bitrate per frame!
 
Thanks a lot for your awesome contributions!
 

Thanks for that Mark. Seeing that the crop isn't so massive and the 20% discount I found made me order it.
Will see how it preforms next to the a6300.
(If any fellow swedes are interested the 20% is for the 20mm f1.7 kit at cyberphoto.se)

Comparing at ISO 6400 the GH4 and the GX85 in 4K (UHD) - same Lumix 25mm f1.7 lens, at f1.7, 1/60th shutter, AWB, ISO 6400, NR -2, histogram used to equalize exposure by manipulating the light source. No re-compression was applied to the files, so they are exactly what the cameras produced. You can see the greater crop factor for the GH4. GH4 is first.
 

after running around with the GX80 and the voigtländer 25, i have collected so much material i will be busy with editing it for weeks  In my opinion, the GX80 is not too small for it, at least for me. The more I shoot with this combo, the less I get why I ever abandoned it...

Std -5/-5/-5/-5 with WB cloudy preset (A3G3) & Tiffen Ultra Contrast. ooc.

The image from gx80 might be usable indeed. Here's some CC I've made. Thanks Jase for a source. I went for a kodak portra look, so forgive me a low key, hi saturated, a bit out of date touch. There is a slight muchy digital-noise but I presume in movement It would vanish in action. From story point of view, I'd be more than happy with this kind of image on full screen.
Question: has anybody tried to use external recorder and prores workflow? What about 10 bit 4:2:2 hdmi output claim from few pages back. Is it confirmed/rejected?

Dug up this thread by chance. So how does the math figure out in favour for or against the BMD Video Assist now the Samurai / Ninja Blade has fallen to 495 and the Ninja 2 is only 295!! :-o

The 20mm is a super high resolving lens, maybe 3rd place or better of the Panasonic Leica lenses, after the 25mm 1.4 and 42.5mm 1.2.
Some curiosity, it seems to be 1/3 EV brighter than it´s 1.7 Fstop. So it´s a super compact, high quality bright lens with slow autofocus for
photo and not useable AF for video. I myself think about the 15mm 1.7 Panny Leica. On the 4K crop it would give me a classic moderate/normal wideangle FOV for video with very fast AF.

This time it is the Panasonic 20mm paired with the obvious tiffen ultra contrast filter.

If you also shoot a lot of stills its a no brainer and super cheap. If you shoot 50/50 its a good deal. Only if you are 100% video is it questionable imo. But then, why buy a stills camera at all.
What's currently holding me back is that I'm back to exclusively shooting film for stills. So not sure if I would use the Fuji for stills. And then there is no point in not getting a real videocamera.

Hello,
I`m new to this forum, but a long term reader, because it is the best forum for information about NX1 (which I own).
The Fuji got my interest for its pleasing colours.
I downloaded two original files from http://www.dkamera.de/news/preview-beispielaufnahmen-der-fujifilm-x-t2/
and discovered, that the codec implemantation may not be very good.
It uses a "High L5.1" variation of mp4 at 102 Mbps with no CABAC and no B-frames unlike for example Sony RX100IV etc.
One I-frame followed by 30 P-frames according to mediainfo and avidemux.
Just like smartphones, but at a higher bitrate.

Just bought one, very happy. I hoppe my obssessed quest related to camera acquisition stops for years to come. The image I see coming out of this cam does not make me want anything else while all the others do.

It is NOT a serious video tool at all  A more serious camera should at least have 10 bit 4.2.2. All of these cameras have terrible rolling shutter. If you do a move it has an unpleasing jumping, skipping and blurring effect. I'm quite happy and still exploring the new Lumix GX80, which is worth attention for just 599 euros. But not for $1599 :))) If you're ready to spend this amount of money for such a camera, then it is worth attention to rethink and raise the bar.

The D16 isn't retro, the A7, X-T2, GH4 etc are. They look like old film SLRs. The D16 looks like a Cinema Camera

Any who, its all just a shame. Ive seen it happen with other cameras as well. People get hung up on some pseudo thing and it doesn't catch wind.
The BMCC and BMPCC did as well.
Before the "Fire sale" they where the most hated and talked down cameras on the internet. Totally trashed by reviewers because of their "odd shape" (non retro/DSLR). "Where is the viewfinder", "No stills", "NO bla bla bla".
Then the price drop and people actually used them, the rest is history.

I just hope we get another cinema camera that is as complete and low cost in the future. Sony, Blackmagic, Red, etc have all failed so far. They can deliver cameras with a good image and some cool features. But not all at once.

Luckily time and technology moves on so there will be plenty of cameras to love and hate in the future
 
 
 

Yes!
Seriously though, why do most mirrorless cameras being made today still follow the form of SLR's? 
 
Also I would urge most people who haven't tried the D16 but seem to know a lot about it to actually try it. It is an absolute joy to use. There is nothing that can do what it does at that price point. Don't even start with bmpcc ballwashing. It's a great cam too, but they are NOT the same beast. I'm sure Mattias can attest to that, he actually has tests with both!
Also, s16 and 16mm are lovely formats. So are s35, ff35 and medium format. I wouldn't cut sushi with a hammer, but I wouldn't say a hammer is useless. Aranofsky makes some pretty cooool films no?
PS: I think super shallow depth of field needs to retire with wedding videos from 2012. Her eyes are in focus but her nose is soft, and everything is a giant piece of high shutterspeed jello... why man...

Now even FujiFilm (the brand for a hipster's purest photography) of all people have got an affordable 4K camera!!!! Says an awful lot when even FujiFilm is beating Canon in the filmmaking stakes.