Hanriverprod

34 minutes ago, Stronz said:

The R5 was primed to be near perfect - on paper it had everything people wanted for a reasonable price and then Canon went and throttled it.

So instead they offer this, “a proper video camera” with essentially the same form factor but smaller sensor, no ibis, no viewfinder, and looks like no flip screen?

So you’re paying $2,000 more for what? Built in NDs and the permission to use the camera without it locking down due to “overheating”?

I’m curious what about this C70 is better than what the R5 should have been?

They put the fan you're supposed to hold up on the port side of the R5 inside the C70. That's at least $1500 right? So then they threw in the NDs to cover the rest of the price bump for good measure.

8 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Yes I see them now, maybe it's only a 2 and 4 stop ND filter, I just can't imagine how they will cripple it, I've learned though thanks to the R5 and R6 fiasco; never underestimate Canon's cripple hammer creativity.

 

I'll bet Canon wishes they could only offer 1080P and get away with it. I think they won't offer RAW, probably no CLOG3, no XLR, no more than a 4 stop ND filter, definitely no IBIS, oh and it will overheat but only if it detects that you haven't yet purchased a Cinema camera. With the purchase of each cinema camera you'll get an unlock code for the CLOG3 and removal of the overheating timer in the C70.

Super 35mm 4K DGO sensor (same as the Cinema EOS C300 Mark III)
No IBIS
RF Mount
Internal ND (10 Stops)
CLog 2 & CLog 3
4:2:2 10bit onto SD cards up to 4K120 and 2K180
No RAW capability internally at launch
BP-A batteries
Price: $6299 USD

Supposedly these are the leaked specs making the rounds on the internet.

$6299 for 10 bit 4K 120 and Canon colors or $3500 for 10 bit 4K 120 and zombie skintones you gotta fiddle around with masks and cc for hours everytime there's a face in the frame.

They'll give you 4k 10 bit line skipped/pixel binned mush but the 4k 8 bit will have high bit rates and also 16k RAW!

Get your stacks of 15 TB drives and your A.I. editing workflow with unlimited teraflops ready to add at least 3 layers of color correction and titles!

Dan Watson "If you didn't think this was controlled by a timer, this is definitely controlled by a timer."

I guess now that a big youtuber has said it outloud it's finally become real.

Yeah it's getting a little weird in here. I saw a review where Jordan went in depth that the camera has serious overheating issues. Also it's youtube. You make videos there for ad revenue. It's basically the largest home shopping network on the planet. I'm not sure how honest we can expect youtube "reviewers" to be. These guys need to maintain corporate relations, push affiliate links and keep some semblance of integrity while being entertaining. That's what it is. That's their job. They're not freedom fighters lol

I find it funny and sad that R5 owners have to be worried about Canon's firmware "update" disabling the workarounds users have figured out to make this thing somewhat usable.

3 minutes ago, horshack said:

Only because it's the home base for my camera-related tech posts for the past 12 years. I started my involvement in the R5 technical investigation there so it would be odd to not continue the discussion there.

I see. I was just wondering because they seem much more interested in the photography side of these hybrid cameras and the community here is much more interested in the video so after the first link I was like why am I keep being sent to dpreview. Anyway thanks for the answer.

Why you keep posting it on dpreview and not here? Just curious 

They added five minutes lol

Taking photos still kills your 4K HQ recording times.

It still takes hours to completely "cool down" (ie reset the timer).

I'll wait to see how the R6 handles but I'm not optimistic.

Canon has drawn the line and is making it clear they don't want their hybrid cameras to be used for professional video with professional photography. If you want to use the Canon ecosystem professionally as a photog/videographer you need to purchase both a body for pics and a separate cine body for videos. Uh no thanks.

35 minutes ago, karoliina said:

I paid 4900 euros for the camera and expected to be able to shoot at least 4K HQ with it as much as I can when placed preorder. I aknowledged that there could be problems with 8K video, but I was not worried because 4K HQ 10 bit 422 would be fine with me most of the time. And it turns out the cripple timer cripples also the 4K HQ. 

I think apologist attitude "oh yeah Canon has all the right" smells deeply rotten. I don't care what Canon thinks, they have ruined the video capabilities of the expensive camera I purchased and traded my 1DX mark II (which did not overheat even in 4K 60p) to. I expected the new camera to be better than the 1DX mark II in video. And it came with Jesus-specs that would show Sony who is the king of video. Then it turns out, after already paying the camera (had to pay in advance to actually get it), that it has timer that ruins all usable video modes. The low quality pixel binned 4K mode most definitely is not what I traded my 1DX mark II for. Because 1DX mark II was able to do high quality 4K all day long, no C-log, but it had EOSHD-C-log installed which was fine. With this timer, my choices are worse image quality than the camera it replaces or live with the timer I never expected to even exist. Canon has betrayed me as a customer. I am not so rich that it would be indifferent to me as a customer if I get fooled by a manufacturer that sells intentional lemons instead of products they marketed.

Canon has no excuses to treat its customers like this. It is despicable. I have no reason to be kind and with apologist attitude towards Canon and than them for ruining my video shooting experience in contrast to the previous camera I had from them. I did not buy this camera for its 4K low quality mode. I could have bought Sony A7RIV instead, if I wanted a camera with pixel binned low quality video, high dynamic range sensor and high megapixel count for still photography. I bought the Canon instead because I expected it to perform better as a hybrid camera than the Sony A7RIV as it had all the things I had been wishing for: 10 bit video, raw video, full sensor readout, Canon DPAF, eye-AF etc. in the same package. It looked like the perfect camera for me. However, Canon completely ruined the video shooting abilities of this camera to category "not suitable for shooting video", unlike marketed, and unlike what I paid for. 

I will use any hack available to shoot video with my R5. And if Canon "fixes it" in the next firmware releases by removing these hack capabilities, I will never upgrade the firmware.

I think as a paid customer you trusted them and gave them the benefit of doubt but they ruined that trust and gave you a very expensive subpar product so you have every right as their customer to voice your disappointment at this camera and their overall attitude towards the people who actually keep them in business. You should call up your local Canon dealer and give them a piece of your mind and also write Canon customer service and let them know how you feel about spending close to 5000 euros on a product they marketed for professional usage INCLUDING VIDEO but is completely and utterly broken.

1 hour ago, kye said:

That would rule it out for me.  I've already invested in a lens collection that is at my preferred focal lengths, I don't want to have to re-buy my lenses to keep the same FOV as what I have (or in the case of the 7.5mm Laowa I simply cannot replicate the FOV as there is no equivalent lens).

Your suggestion is half-way to suggesting a FF GH6, which exists - it's called the S1H.

"Native Field of View for Any LensImagine having a 4K video camera that could utilize any number of lenses, of various formats and sizes, and the camera just knew how to properly map the pixels on the sensor chip to properly frame your lens of choice ... Now, stop imagining. Thanks to the revolutionary technology we call Variable Scan Mapping, VSM for short, the GY-LS300 lets you choose the lens you want as it enables the camera to maintain the native angle of view for a large variety of lenses including many popular Super 35, MFT and Super 16. "

from:

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/4k/brochure/gyls300v3web.pdf

Am I understanding this wrong?

• Super 35mm image sensor and a Micro Four Thirds (MFT) lens mount
• pdaf or dpaf
• 4K up to 60p or 120p at 10 bit 4:2:2
• 4K internal raw 24p and 30p
• electronic ND
• dual iso

Delusion is strong here. Canon is gonna try to go out of their way not to give us shit.  If anything they will close all the loopholes in using these features professionally and claim it’s to protect the camera. Maybe they will give in a little and give us something like 10 more minutes but they are not going to suddenly let this camera loose and out perform their 10k+ cinema cameras. 

Hi Dilara! Welcome to the forum!

He’s not trying to kill anyone. He’s trying to scare everyone. 
 

Looks like Canon got caught with their pants down again. 

They need to be careful with what they “fix”. They don’t want to admit anything was intentional. And they certainly don’t want to give their customers anything that might even lead to second guessing a cinema line camera might not be necessary. Maybe they have strong data that shows there is a large crossover between a hybrid with good video features and their lower end cinema cameras. I personally would just buy another company’s hybrid mirrorless before buying a canon cinema body but maybe the market of people who are choosing between the two is much larger. Which still doesn’t excuse any of their atrocious behavior over the years. 

Maybe panasonic is content with their 5% of the market. Or they are listening to the “real professionals” who are telling them AF is for amateurs and little kids and “real professionals” like to use their wrists 👋💦

Before anyone takes this personal I’m just kidding. 🤗

I hope they drop their current af so I can hopefully use their new cameras on a feature production.

If they release it with the 4k HQ up to 60 with no overheating and no 30 min limit I'll probably pick one up.

Good job Andrew! 😄

What really bugs me is when they say some company sent them the product but they are not sponsored and that we will get an honest review. It's like wtf. The whole reason your channel has relevancy is because these companies send you these products early for you to do your 'honest' review which consists of gushing over how awesome the product is except for one little flaw that's not a big deal.

Let's be real, these guys cream all over themselves to exchange emails with companies like Sony and Canon and Apple and Samsung about new product launches and there is no way they can be objective at all regardless of whether they say its sponsored or not. Either they got the product early or they are building their channel up to get the product early. And you can't do that by burning bridges.

So to mediate this conundrum they find themselves in they say they did not send the video to be checked. Doesn't matter. They are psychologically chained to make sure they keep these corporations happy so they can keep getting their emails and possibility of early product reviews.

They keep the video 95% positive and then mention some weak point every one already knows while basically showing a 10 minute commercial of tracking shots of said product.

They then every once in a while pick a product from a smaller company to trash or do a really honest review not concerned with a backlash from that company.

The only exception is when the corporation releases a real stinker of a product and everyone knows which gives them cover to post an 'honest' review.

These people are basically marketing mouthpieces and pretend like they are doing us a service when they are just basically a new cog in an overhyped consumerist economy.

Not to beat a dead horse but here are some pics of Korean productions. They are using dozens of camera operators using braodcast camcorders to camcorders to digital cine cameras to dslrs and mirrorless and many of them are using af. These cameramen will work on tv dramas, commercials, tv docs and even films so a lot of these workflows spill over into each other. And yes for af they are all probably using sony or canon. This is why panasonic needs to address their af to bring all this back to the subject at hand.

I mean some of that will be af not most. 

I’m talking about af here not mirrorless on a film shoot. Although there are mirrorless cameras being used on some shorts and microbudget features in Korea. And yes af is used all the time in docs and tv format shows here. I don’t know why people find this so surprising. On some korean tv shows they will have 5 to 20 cameras following the actors/hosts/subjects from camcorders to fs7s to mirrorless and all that footage will be intercut together. And yes most of that will be af. 
 

again I think koreans think very differently about tech like this. If it works they use it. They don’t debate about aesthetics or tradition that much. I apologize as well if I sounded defensive or argumentative. But I still think panasonic absolutely needs to deliver great af 🙂

But yes probably 99% of film production is shot on cine lenses with focus puller. But some productions will use an af lens on some shots like a long tracking shot with an actor. I don't know specific scenes from movies or tv shows but pds and dps have told me they have done this to save time and cut down on takes. And these are all from conversations the past maybe year and half so this is a new thing. Also, be aware that new tech is adopted quickly in Korea especially if it can save time and money. Korean productions move very fast with low budgets. I don't want to seem argumentative but I think af will be used more and more often for specific types of shots. I know this to be a fact because I am prepping a film and have personally discussed using af lens for some long shots in a tight interior location where it would just make more sense.

Anyway sorry to derail this thread but I think Panasonic definitely needs to sort out their af situation for documentary shooters, event shooters and even some indie filmmakers.

Do you know how many movies and dramas are shot in Korea every year? You mentioned two korean directors every redditor wanks off to. I just spoke to a Korean Producer who has a studio film in the korean theaters right now a couple of weeks ago about shooting long scenes with af lenses to keep track of the actors. I personally know dp's who have used sony and canon cameras the past year on all types of shoots using af. Why are there so many people on this site who think they know everything about what everyone is doing? And why are you interrogating me? But I'll play along.

No, I don't mean Bong joon ho or Park chan-wook.

They are using c300 mkii and fx9's and canon and sony lenses.

It's not for the whole production. Specific shots where they know they can save time and get the shot done. So yes most of the shoots are of course done with an ac/puller.

I personally know and have worked with these people. I have worked in the Korean film industry for over 12 years now and worked in film and tv in NYC since the early 90s. I am very aware of how productions work. I have done everything from tape dubbing to dping indie films to directing short films and theatrically released feature films.

And no I won't share people's names with you. Just deal with the fact the world is bigger than what your perspective might be.

Here's a rental house a few blocks away from me. A lot of productions in Seoul rent from houses like this. Go to the cine camera section and then the lens section and then draw your own conclusions.

https://www.slrrent.com/kr/