majoraxis

Using 3D LUT Creator I did a rough pass at trying to match the 4k with the 6k both at 5 stops under. You can see the color shift required. Major shift from magenta to green, but it was not possible to achieve this with just the tint, temp sliders which were only tweaked slightly using auto white balance then tweaked further to dial it in. I also increased the dynamic range slider which made it have more contrast without having to use the contrast slider. I also added saturation. Also slight tweaks on the color web to skin tone color area. So it seems there needs to be a dynamic shift in color, contrast and saturation based on the under exposure level for each pixel of the image for the Pocket 4K.

As we see in the under exposure test above that difference between the Pocket 4K and Pocket 6k image is more than resolution. I hope that Blackmagic can fix the color issue with the underexposed images with the Pocket 4K. If so, it is a much better value. If not, and the Pocket 6k had a MTF mount, I would pay the almost twice the price cost difference for it - I think many would. The Pocket 6k has a great image, which is very forgiving when it comes to variable/low light conditions and it will pay for the difference in price by missing less shots over the life of the camera.

I find it interesting that Pocket 6k is in stock at B&H and the Pocket 4k is not. Also, last night I saw a used Pocket 6k on B&H for a little over $2k . It’s gone today, but it goes to,show how available the 6k is.

Super impressive performance for 5-stops under exposed for the Pocket 6k then brought up by 5-stops in post. The underexposed performance of the Pocket 6k was also evident in Tom Antos' USRA Mini Pro, Pocket 6K, Alexia and Red Tests. It seems to me that if you are shooting in natural light the Pocket 6k is the way to go. I knew there was a reason I liked the Pocket 6k over the Pocket 4k - now if Blackmagic would release a MFT version of the Pocket 6K - I would purchase it. From this: To this: Wow!

I am really hoping for a micro 4/3 version of the Pocket 6k as the Pocket 6k has about 25% more resolution at the same size sensor crop vs the Pocket 4k. I would not need a Pocket 4k for M4/3 lens, I would just use the Pocket 6k M4/3. At some point, hopefully sooner rather than later, Blackmagic will offer this as I believe their is lots of demand for it and the engineering seems like it would be nearly trivial.1 Along with M4/3 mount, in camera scaling using the super scale algorithm from Resolve would allow me to crop based on the lens' image circle and output, 6k, 4k or 2k. This would cover all of my lens and output file size requirements, basically making one camera to rule them all.

It’s welcome, but I am not buying a new tv just for this. Maybe some people will and maybe that’s in part, the reason why they are introduced this. So don’t charge me extra for turning off features and it is a win... also, I would be interested to see if with high brightness panels they would be able to tune it to work with the light on in the room. I assume part of watching a film is being in a darken room...

If you’re looking for a production package to rent, try Sharegrid. Often people have packages they would like to rent. The thing about ShareGrid is that it can be a lot less than a rental house. Beyond that it seems like looking for an URSA mini pro package as an A camera to the Pocket 4k’s as B camera may be the way to go.

Any other company besides Tilta and I would say they are trying to make some marketing noise to take advantage of the momentum of the Pocket 6K with a "compatibility announcement" about their logo. But it's Tilta and they have provided fantastic products at a good value so I'll take it with a grain of salt and say thanks you updating your logo for compatibility with Pocket 6K. ; ) I purchased a Title cage for my BMCC and it was so well build that I have complete trust in their product when I see the Tilta logo, so Tilta logo compatibility is a good thing come to think of it.

The results are in for the Pocket 6k / Arri Alexa Mini / USRA Mini Pro / Red Raven 2019 Cinema Camera Tests by Tom Antos. If you have not watched the previous video with the blind comparison you may wish to do so to form your own unbiased opinion before watching this... I had picked the Pocket 6k as my favorite in the blind test, the general public picked the USRA Mini Pro which was my number 2 choice. If I were shooting in low light, from this test, I would pick the Pocket 6k compared to the others. For high light recovery, from this test IMHO, the Alexa Mini is still the king.

I would much rather have a Pocket 6k with an MFT mount than an EF mount... seems like it would be a relatively easy adaption to offer, except there is cooling to consider. I would also rather have a Pocket 6k than a Pocket 4k and not just for the extra resolution. There is an effortlessness to Pocket 6k footage that the Pocket 4K does not embody IMHO. The 6K footage just looks closer to right to me, dynamic range aside. I have owned two Pocket 4ks and returned them both as I could never get comfortable/satisfied with the Pocket 4k image - as they say, it just wasn't for me. Also, I think it has been said before, but based on the size of the sensor pixels, the Pocket 6K has greater resolution over the same amount of sensor area as compared to Pocket 4K. Using the same lenses on a theoretical Pocket 6k MTF, you would have approximately 23% more resolution if you windowed Pocket 6k to the Pocket 4k sensor size as compared to the Pocket 4k. The Pocket 6k is 266 pixels/mm. The Pocket 4k is 216 pixel/mm. (266-216)/216 = 23% So you would be gaining resolution (and dare I say a more pleasing image presentation IMHO), by using your MTF compatible lens configurations, if Blackmagic offered a Pocket 6k MTF for you to use them on.

Hypothetically speaking, assuming Apple wins and some of Red's patents are no longer valid: will Atomos products become cheaper to purchase? Does Nikon finally roll out Pro Rez RAW recording HDMI implementation? Does Blackmagic add/turn on Cinema DNG as a recording option? Do camera manufactures implement RAW recording without concern? Etc... What are the upsides of Red losing for the pro / semi pro video camera user/purchaser and why should a potential cinema camera owner care (practically speaking, moral out rage aside...)? What are the downsides of Red losing?

Shooting 6k in BRAW on this and delivering in 4K seems like you would wind up getting a true 4K image after the 6k BRAW- Demosaic-Debayer processing. So it seems that USRA Mini Pro 8k is not far off, certainly by NAB 2020, as this will definitely eat into USRA Mini Pro 4.6k G2 sales once comparisons are made, if people don’t see a “costs more than twice as much” difference in dynamic range.

I speculate: 1. New 4k Micro Cinema Camera based on the Fairchild MST4323. https://www.fairchildimaging.com/products/scmos-sensors/mst4323 with 4k @ 120 and 1080p @ 240, great low light and excellent dynamic range, dual micro XLR inputs with phantom power and SDI 1080p output via brake out cable shipping by the end of October, priced at $1295 with Resolve Studio. 2. BRAW codac update with improved my gradation and true 12 bit performance 3. Pocket 4k and USRA Mini Pro G2 offers Cinema DNG recording options for $99 license fee. 4. Resolve 16 is out of beta.

That is great information. Here's link that contains other lens exit pupil distances. It also mentions the Blackmagic 2.5k as having an optical sensor stack of 2.4mm so assuming the Blackmagic Pocket 4k's sensor stack is 2.5mm, an older used metabones speed booster made for the BMCC maybe a cheap alternative with caveats like vignetting and corner sharpness to be considered. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/sensor-stack-thickness-when-does-it-matter/comment-page-1/

I wouldn't rule that out with this one just yet... @BTM_Pix any chance that the Tilta Nucleus M could be supported directly (so it would be camera agnostic)? Thanks! Mark

@ currensheldon - thanks for the info - I really appreciate the insights! It seems like the less expensive FF Raw cameras will be using the same Sony sensor, so each one will have its key features and priced to sell accordingly, probably all higher than the FP. So regardless of if the FP has all the features one would want. there will be another one around the corner to fill the demand. Its hard to image the RAW output from the same sensor in a different box will be dramatically differently, but may the best color science, feature set and pricing win!

What are the alternatives if you want the equivalent of Cinema DNG 4k 12bit full frame video recording? and at what price? I admit it, I have not done the research as it was not on my radar before this announcement. I hope that those who were already in the market could share what alternatives there are that this will compete against. I'm thinking that this is a good value (pending the price and total configuration cost to shoot Cinema DNG) because of people's reaction to the announcement.

That was fast - I had just update yesterday (literally) - I'm look forward to even more improvements and increases in stability - thanks Blackmagic!

Resolve 16 beta is fantastic - they are on the 5th 16 beta update. So far the Resolve Studio updates have been free with no update fees - which is unheard of for the amount of time this product has been out. Getting this type of power included with the camera is a huge benefit because they are designed to complement each other. I think of the Blackmagic cameras and Resolve as part of an eco-system where the sum is greater than the parts. In the camera comparison above the I think that glass, gaffing, and grading will make a bigger difference regarding which camera appears to have the better image than the actual camera it self - except for green screen work where all things being relatively equal, the better, sharper, higher resolution codec will make a significant difference. Blackmagic will eventual release a relatively affordable 8k camera, so investing in the Blackmagic eco-system is a pretty good business decision for the long run.

Hi Andrew, 6.1 is the last version that has Cinema DNG. 6.2 adds BRAW and Removes Cinema DNG for the Pocket 4k, it can still be rolled back as it is only compatible with the Old LCD version. 6.2.1 is for compatibility with the new LCD and can not be rolled back if you have the new LCD. In this thread someone said that they could roll back from 6.2.1 to 6.1 https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90870 so I they must have the Old LCD. The 6.2.1 firmware identifies if you have the Old or New LCD and allows or disallows rollback based on the hardware identification. It makes sense to keep a copy if the installers for 6.1 and 6.2 so you can upgrade and rollback depending on the functionality you desire.

If it is the newer hardware version of Pocket 4k with the updated LCD panel, then it will not work with firmware older than 6.2.1, so you can't roll it back to get the Cinema DNG recording options. Here's how you tell, if you purchased your Pocket 4K new and it came with 6.2.1 factory installed, then you can not roll it back to 6.1 and get the Cinema DNG recording options. I tried it and it said something like your camera is up to date. Pocket 4k v1 - Cinema DNA enabled firmware rollback is allowed if you have access to firmware 6.1 or older. Pock 4k v2 - Cinema DNG recoding options are not included and it is not possible to roll back the firmware to get them.

@amanieux I'm not sure if this is correct. I think the non-beta public release of the first G2 compatible firm was with Blackmagic Camera 6.3 update. In the Blackmagic Camera 6.2 update it states: What's new for URSA Mini Pro 4.6K Removed CinemaDNG formats So there would have to be a firmware version earlier that 6.2 that is compatible with the G2 to allows it to also use of Cinema DNG. Of note: For the USRA Mini Pro G1 the Blackmagic Camera 6.0 update supports both CinemaDNG and BRAW and add ISO 3200 as well as generation 4 color science to Blackmagic viewfinder. Blackmagic Camera 6.1 update also should have the same functionality, but this update did not change anything for the USRA Mini Pro according to the read me. 6.1 was out in 05 Feb 2019, and the G2 was not even announced until March 5, 2019. All of the information I can find indicates that the USRA Mini Pro G2 never had Cinema DNG, which is probably good news for Pocket 4k owners as Blackmagic will want to improve BRAW performance on their flag ship product and it will trickle down to Pocket 4K.

I returned the the Blackmagic Pocket 4K I purchased as it could not be reverted to the firmware version with BRAW. I purchased an USRA Mini Pro G1 instead as it can do Cinema DNG where the the USRS G2 can not and the G1 was a so much cheaper used at the time. I anticipate that the USRA Mini Pro G1 and the BM Pocket 4K with the hardware revision that can do Cinema DNG will hold their value and be in demand for some time to come.

From the Laforet Youtube video description: “What’s impressive about this package is the micro four thirds sensor. This sensor has an incredible roll off of highlights that I seldom see which really opens up your ability to capture an incredible dynamic range, from the deep shadows to extremely high highlights all the way to the sunlight”. I wonder which Blackmagic Camera version update this was shot with to allow the sensor to display its "incredible roll off of highlights". Were they shooting 6.1 with Cinema DNG? Were they shooting 6.3 or 6.4 and Blackmagic has silently rolled in better highlight response or was it there the whole time and the newest Resolve 16.4 beta or some future release beta unlocks the sensor "incredible roll off of highlight"potential with the way it process BRAW. At 4:54 in this video, it illustrates and describes the highlight issue. If Blackmagic has some how improved the highlight rolloff characteristics with pocket 4k generated video files, it would be great to know what combination of Pocket 4k hardware version, Blackmagic Camera version update , recording format and recording format post processing to unleash this potential. If nothing has changed on Blackmagic's side, maybe Laforet could share his recording technique to achieve incredible highlight rolloff with the Pocket 4k because this guy does beautiful work, so I am hoping he knows something I don't know and will be willing to share his knowledge with the community, or that he will tell Blackmagic and they can share it with the community. Hopefully someone will clarify how this was made a reality.

I think I will wait for the 32" 6k iMac version... that would be a nice upgrade! Also, I think Andrew was right about $50k for the camera's people are shooting for Netflix originals on. I was looking for a counter example of a Netflix Original shot on an approved less expensive cameras in particular USRA Mini Pro and I was not able to find any...