kidzrevil

@Vesku trust me man as beautiful as that image is that is not a 12 stop image. A true HDR image on an HDR display looks far different than this. The sensor may be 12+ but the tone curve used to store and display the image in 8 bit srgb isn’t. It will always compress the DR to fit the rec709 spec. Using different picture profiles merely redistribute the DR i.e. raise shadows, lower highlights, compress midtones etc. to display what the sensor sees in accordance to rec709 or rec2020 specifications. HDR10 & Dolby Vision allows the user to see the 13 stops of lets say a GH5 with details in what was once the textureless highlight range of these tone curve without the use of highlight compression. im still learning the intricacies of how HDR works myself but I currently understand and work within the constraints of SDR material.

With what picture profile because they all employ serious highlight compression. Cinelike D for sure doesn’t have anything close to 12 stops of DR. VLOG is at 12 and that has to be converted from LOG to linear to watch it. And if its 8 bit the file is definitely being saved in a rec709 format so you definitely cant choose not to talk about rec709 when your DR is being limited to a set value because of it @Vesku

@Vesku I think you may have misunderstood how SDR displays work as well as the camera itself. What you are seeing on you 1080p capable television is a rec709 2.2 gamma image. Rec709 will not exceed 6-7 stops thats why HDR was made. What your camera is doing since it is fully capable of going pass 7 stops of DR is compressing the stops of light above the 7th stop (roughly at 90 ire) and you can start to see the image losing texture. HDR maintains the texture in those upper ranges. When I mentioned shooting for that limited DR of rec709 its simple. You just make the decision of where you want to maintain texture : in the highlights (clipped shadows but highlight texture), the midtones (balanced image) or in the shadows (blown out highlight and sometimes midtone areas). That’s it. All HDR is doing is giving you a greater margin of error in comparison to SDR...it doesn’t matter the DR of your camera rec709 cant display as much as rec2020 and hdr

A camera is only as good as the operator ?

@mercer yeah ! Its from my gh4 days

@mercer a voigtlander 25mm f0.95 with slr magic anamorphot 50 worked really well for me

I do want to come back to it ! I will let you know if I ever get my hands on a cheap one ! @lucabutera

@jonpais a friend of mine went out there to live and teach english after we both got out of the military. They put her in an LG smart house and she couldn’t stop going on about how far ahead of the times South Korea is in comparison to the states. When I went to Japan I noticed tech that hasn’t come close to saturating our market is pretty common out there. If I was was working outside the states I would absolutely, positively abandon SDR and start practicing with the newer tech or face being left in the dust ! Sadly America’s consumer market aint as tech driven so it takes way too long for things to become a standard here I do hope our market prefers dynamic range over resolution because the race to 6K right now is complete garbage and not worth it over better color & dr.

@jonpais Don’t get me wrong im not opposed to anything thats going to up the quality of a production. Im all for the latest and greatest bleeding edge technology. I played PS4 in HDR for the first time yesterday and was blown away at the highlight rolloff. It was a great experience seeing HDR but for my specific uses & clientelle its a very faddish thing for me and im sure other freelancers can relate. When more displays and consumer phones support it I will jump on it without hesitation. I mean im still taking my 0-255 and compressing it down to 16-235 because anything outside of that range clips on most devices so I think you can understand why im not so eager to entirely abandon my current SDR workflow. 7 stops of DR is plenty if you know what you are doing.

@jonpais broadcasters never required 10 bit. If you go off of BBC standards the Canon Xc10 was considered a Tier 1 camera and it was most definitely 8bit. 10 bit displays haven’t even saturated the market and its 2017 theres no way broadcasters could require 10bit. Thats too much data to push to a coaxial cable. I agree that HDR is a step up but its not that serious. High dynamic range in the wrong hands is as much of a disaster as it was when we had SDR cameras. HDR will in fact change industry practice its not something production studios have accounted for in the past. I really still believe HDR will remain an “icing on the cake” feature for at least a couple of more years. If the demand for it increases it will become a standard but it will have to survive a couple more years in this consumer market to be a thing i.e. 3D tv

@Mattias Burling I LOVE the character of those lenses man ! The dof and microcontrast looks like a painting

Damn @lucabutera how come you couldn’t have made this when I owned an NX1 ?! Lmao good job man it looks really good

@Axel damn HDR comes out now everything is a crap camera. Funny how the world works huh ? They were just fine and were something to talk about but the minute HDR gets announced they belong in the garbage huh ? Lol

I wonder if we will ever get a SLOG to HLG/HDR LUT ? If SLOG is able to capture an extended dynamic range then in theory it can be converted for HDR displays. I’ve done some research on LG tv’s and hear they amongst many allow HDR with an 8 bit display. I even read somewhere that they consider their tv sets to be HDR compatible because they cover the whole luma lange so it doesn’t matter if their tv’s can fill the color gamut. That makes sense because a lot of HDR tv’s and Sony A7riii HDR mode is 8 bit color as well. My display for what its worth is HDR but only covers a limited amount of the dci-p3 coor space. This leads me to believe if tv manufacturers are ok with 8 bit color if their displays can render HDR’s luma range then 8 bit color maybe effective for HDR even with sgamut

@anonim Its hard not to fall in love with Tiffen’s diffusion. They work magic on digital sensors

@Jonesy Jones yeah im not opposed to the format at all I just think its too young to worry about it at the current moment. I do debate ditching all my 8 bit bodies and settling down with a GH5 to meet the upcoming standard but I am currently focusing on mastering the current standard. Im waiting for when HDR eventually becomes more widespread and saturates the market

Well I can say this much : I am not switching over to HDR anytime soon. Its too new of a display technology and there are as many arguments for it as well as there are against it. Lets not forget each displays manufacturer adds their own mojo to their display units to stand out from other companies color science thus creating Yet another variable in how your HLG content is displayed. Even though some of these TV’s claim HDR and wide gamut color most barely hit 60% of DCI-P3 color space. These are one of the many reasons why I am personally sticking to SDR until the tech matures. HDR is reminding me of the 3D tv hype and thats my personal take. Shooting with an HDR camera is one thing...how it will be displayed is another. “Shoot for the lowest common denominator” is my personal mantra and it has not failed me yet. The lowest common denominator is still 1080 rec709 8bit @ 2.2 gamma. I know if my images look good within that srgb color space and exposed so the important details falls within the rec709 6-7 stop dynamic range its going to look good everywhere period. If your display set has upscaling (which most do for full hd content natively) it’s going to fit in with the rest of the content in your home theater i.e. bluray movies ,tablet and mobile device.

I think you are overthinking this. Maybe you should consider working on the basics like color, lighting and composition because those are both really good cameras and one is not gonna make your work look better than the other. The only thing you are going to get going between those cameras are a full frame aesthetic vs. super 35mm. Don’t be fooled by the legions of people that say Sony has bad color, they simply do not know how to grade properly or they picked the wrong profile. To answer your question though I have never shot with the nikon before but I seen excellent footage with it. I have an a6500 but I find it to be useless without a battery grip and a thumb rest accessory added to it because the ergonomics are terrible without it imo. The image quality (yup even in SLOG3 8bit) and the noise is almost non existent until you hit 1600-3200. It’s usable up to a very high iso like 6400 but its clean because of image processing. I think the a6500 covers the needs of most people BUT if you are doing this professionally you may want to keep the Nikon D750 because when a client or an agency asks you what you are shooting with they are going to google your camera model if they are unfamiliar. A “pro-sumer” camera has locked me out of certain jobs from agencies unfamilar with me or my work. So yeah keep the Nikon if you are doing pro work. Is the quality better ? No.

You can get a panasonic gh3 for cheap. That camera was a beast

Same. It’s not going to add or take away from my work especially when TV sales are plummeting and there are few devices that support the newer technologies. I will continue to shoot for the lowest common denominator which is 1080p 8 bit delivery that way my shit is viewable EVERYWHERE and as I intended for it to look ?? Dude you are so right about that ! I bought a 43” 4K LG tv so I can get a glimpse of how my work would look on bigger screens and I was shocked. I couldn’t tell the difference between 4K and 1080p at normal viewing distances. I know @Mattias Burling ran a couple of tests before proving that most people can not see the difference between 1080p & 4K. Now im seeing 4K has more benefits as a capture format than for delivery. As far as HDR is concerned I don’t think it’s going to be the holy grail people think it is. The average user can barely distinguish the 16.7 million colors we already see with 8 bit so the billion+ shades in 10bit most HDR displays can’t even display the whole color gamut. Some 4K displays are listed to cover 98% of SRGB which we were lead to believe was such a teeny tiny outdated color space another thing we are forgetting is that some of us will have to relearn how to expose our images for that extended dynamic range and more importantly how to use it artistically. Last but not least if one exposes the image for HDR delivery then your video will not look as intended when shown on SDR. This is going to be another gimmicky gold rush like 3D tv’s were. Production companies aint about to rework their hardware and their workflow to cater to the 2 people with HDR displays. Its going to end up being an “icing on the cake” feature not an industry standard.

So apparently the g9 does have better noise performance than the gh5. Im feeling an “I told you so” coming LOL https://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-g9-beats-gh5-raw-comparison/

@anonim yeah the magenta bias is pretty intense. I’ve been biasing my color bias towards green hues when using pro color gamut but I need to test it a little more. I always take Yuryev’s tests with a grain of salt & run my own instead of relying on his assessment.

@mercer yeah I meant the mark ii ! I cant keep up with these manufacturers man ? I always slept on it cause I hear olympus is bad for video but those specs aint bad at all. It kinda looks like Panasonic is positioning the g9 specifically to go after the olympus cam

The hack is absolutely beneficial. I refuse to shoot an nx1 without it ?. It takes care of the macro blocking and that was my main issue with the NX1. Install it and shoot with 160-180 mbps

@jonpais that etc. mode sounds super effective for super 16mm glass that doesnt cover the full fov...hmmm sounds like something worth experimenting with ! I can see a nature videographer making good use of that feature for sure @mercer is the em mark iii compatible with the speedbooster xl ? IBIS is such a valuable feature for my work. I can’t say I’ve researched the olympus much but it sounds promising. As far as the g9 goes I really like the size of the grip and the fact that it has 4K 60p now. If the image processing truly is improved we can expect better low light as well. What Panasonic REALLY should do is give us a 8-12 MP GH5s for clean lowlight up to 6400 with bigger pixels. That would be a CRAZY 4k camera