IronFilm

It's late 2023 already?? Where did the year go!! Scary, scarier than Halloween was. 
Just limiting ourselves to cameras released within the past year? 
The easy top three cameras of note for me released in 2023 are: 
Sony FX30 (came available for sale in stores later 2022, so just barely-ish squeaks in here if you look at the past 12 months or so). Is the latest S35 cinema camera from Sony, and also their most affordable one ever!
The L Mount camera from Blackmagic. Finally, another mirrorless mount cinema camera from BMD! Been a long time since the P4K was released. 
Blackmagic Design Micro Studio Camera 4K G2. It's a big upgrade from the previous Micro Studio Camera, especially for film shooters as it's now so much more than "just a studio camera". If you're an OG BMPCC user who thought the BMD "Pocket" 4K was too big for you, then this Micro Studio G2 is the upgrade for you! Plus it  is cheaper than ever, is priced at sub US$1K, even cheaper than the Pocket 4K. Don't be fooled by the "Studio" in its name, yes it is packed full of studio specific features, but in a way this is also their new "Micro Cinema G2" camera as well. 
 
Opening it up to any cameras that exist? Then "it depends", just whatever is suitable for the job at hand. 
Even a super old Sony EX3 might be the right buy for me these days. 
Although I think I'm going to sell my Sony FS7 soon, and just not buy anything else for the foreseeable future.  Juggling working kinda full time in the Sound Dept plus studying CompSci full time too, means there simply is not enough hours left in the day to devote to chasing down camera gigs too and developing my craft. I've done very little of that this year. 
And I think if I ever do try to take the camera side of things (rather than an exclusive focus on the Sound Dept) more seriously, then I think I'll be doing one of three options: 
1) just shooting ultra low budget indie drama stuff, not really caring too much about the money, simply doing it for the love of it, and whatever 
That means buying one of: 
Going fully nuts and getting an ARRI ALEXA Classic, splurging an amount that doesn't make any financial sense at all (but the Alexa Classic is so dirt cheap these days, it's not that much to indulge in as a hobby passion. Many people spend more on golf / fishing / drag racing / Ironmans ) 
Going more sensibly low budget with a Blackmagic (be it a dirt cheap P4K or BMD Micro Studio Camera G2, or a secondhand URSA Mini Pro) 
Or continue my love affair with CineAlta, and get a dirt cheap Sony PMW-F55. 
2) going into the multicam live streaming niche, this probably is where the overlap of my skillset / personality and business opportunities overlap to make the most sense from a financial perspective 
Which means one of these options:
Buying up a handful of old Sony EX3 cameras on the cheap (maybe mixing in a few other Sony models, such as my Sony PMW-F3 that I'm stll keeping)
Buying a handful of BMD Micro Studio G2 cameras. Gives a better image, gives me 4K as well. Integrates nicely with the BMD ATEM ecosystem. But it could be marginally more expensive for the whole setup, once you've rigged out the Micros with everything. And I have a lot of questionable suspicion about if even brand new BMD cameras will be more reliable than secondhand old Sony PMW-EX3 cameras. Plus a Micro vs EX3 looks less "impressively pro" at a conference / sporting event, if you care at all about client impressions. (which do actually matter a lot) 
3) going hardcore into some ultra techy geeky niche, that has relatively little competition. Such as 360VR filmmaking, although sadly 360VR turned out to be a fleeting fashion fad which these days there is no interest in. (maybe it is not too late to jump onto the hype of virtual productions such as The Mandalorian used? But that's more about massive time and money investment into computing power / workflows and huge LED walls. And not at all about cameras you'd be buying for it) But if I was to go into 360VR, then I'd do one of: 
Multiple Sony RX0mk2 cameras, for the first ever 4K 10bit and waterproof multicam rig for 360VR
Multiple ZCam E2-M4 bodies, this seems like a fairly well proven and very low cost option for high quality 360VR filmmaking. Definitely the safest bet option out of all of these I'm listing in the 360VR category. 
Multiple Sony FX30 bodies, a bit higher cost than the E2-M4, but I get to carry on a love affair with CineAlta into the 360VR world. However, this is an unproven configuration nobody else has done. And the body form factor is much more awkward than the body E2-M4 bodies. 
Multiple BMD Studio G2 camera bodies, another unproven configuration that nobody else in the world has done. But their form factor should be ideal for this, and might make for a better image quality (or at least a more familiar workflow for productions, an equally important consideration, or arguably is an even more important) than the ZCams have. But, one big benefit of this choice is I could also use these multiple Studio G2 camera bodies for multicam live streaming! Multiple revenue sources? Just need to swap out the UWA MFT lenses for B4 zoom lenses with adapters.
Multiple Panasonic BS1H camera bodies, this is the dream! It would be a low light monster, the best the world has ever seen with 360VR filmmaking (although... this means this is also an unproven configuration, as nobody has ever attempted this. But the BS1H form factor is at least good for this). Although, this is the most expensive option by far! However, the BS1H has seen such a massive drop in price recently, that if I could get a little bit of funding behind me for a 360VR web series, then this could be a viable option to go with. 
 

XDCA module was part of Sony's legacy design. On the FX9, it allows for much more than 16-bit RAW and 4k 120 (S35). You can power a giant B4 lens, for example, and offset the weight. You can also stream and transfer files. It's a full professional feature set for those who need it, especially broadcasters and those in field recording. This is all before they integrated RAW output into the body of the FX6. It will be interesting to see how they move forward with the FX9 II design in case they drop the module or modify it.
At the moment, we have the aging FX9 at $10K and the brand new Burano 8K at $25K. That's a huge price gap in the Sony cinema lineup that they need to fill. The "Burano 6K" could fill that gap nicely and still separate itself from both cameras. I believe the "inflation adjusted price" for the F5 was $3000 over MSRP, so I'm not sure how that will work.
I think you will find buyers for the FS7 who don't want to pay FX6 prices. It is still a capable camera and perfect for many applications. I still shoot with the C500 (original) and the image is great, especially in RAW. The only problem is the size/weight of the camera and Odyssey recorder when all rigged up.

I didn't need to even wait until my next gig on Monday! I'm here at a Halloween Party 🎃
 
And totally unprompted, Captain America himself brought up "The Creator" and that it was shot on a Sony FX3: 

Indeed and pair it with it’s even tinier 10-18mm sibling and you would have a 15-27 and 27-75 combo

It’s not just weight. It’s about balance. Where can you put the center of gravity.  The lenses make it very very front heavy. You have to then push the camera way back to balance.  And then you can even start hitting the physical dimensions.  If the camera is too long to push back farther to get the center of gravity forward. 
 
I know some of the crew and it’s all about the director who was operating (not the DP) using the shoulder mounted ronin as a hand held / gimbal hybrid. 
 

Sure, we're seeing oversaturating as we're people who post on EOSHD but it is leaking out to a wider audience. If I tomorrow at work asked around "hey have you heard about that new blockbuster scifi film shot on a mirrorless?" then I'd probably get a few bites. 
Plus it is a "hook" that even mainstream channels might spur them to write a report on or do a video on, even if that aspect is only a glancing mention in the overall reporting. 
Yes, but how much worse would it have done with even less press? 
"a pretty compelling story"
Isn't there is another name for that? 😉
It's marketing! 
  
There is rather little difference in weight between a stripped down FX6 and a stripped down FX3, plus when you're using heavier anamorphic lenses like they are, then it makes it easier to balance the gimbal if your camera is a little heavier rather than weighing nothing at all 

Have they ever???
Even when REDs were more popular on production, a few years back, it was still easy enough for producers (especially in big markets such as LA or NYC) to demand the latest. Because there was a big oversupply of RED shooters vs jobs suitable for a RED. 
Their RED Raven and RED Komodo pushed them rather close to consumer territory 
RED even at the best of times never really gained heaps of traction. 
Their market segments were:
1) RED fanboys 
2) cutting edge experimenters, who would dabble with the the RED ecosystem when it was new. Probably got burnt by RED. And would move along to abandon RED as soon as something better was available. Be it a Sony PMW-F3 / Sony FS700 / ARRI ALEXA / or whatever. 
3) people who needed a compact cinema camera , be it for a drone / gimbal / crash cam / whatever
4) people who want "higher quality" but can't afford the best. (i.e. ARRI ALEXA cameras, or Super 35 film, or something similar-ish such as Sony F35 or F65)
#1 has been in decline for years. 
#2 has completely disappeared. 
#3 got very gradually chipped away at with the likes of better mirrorless cameras + BMD's BMCC & BMPCC. But the release of the ARRI Alexa Mini almost completely demolished this niche for RED. Then the P4K / VENICE / FX6 / etc killed whatever small teeny remaining niches RED might still have in this market. 
#4 initially this gap for RED to live in used to be very big. As when the RED ONE was released the ARRI ALEXA didn't exist at the high end, not even the Sony F35 existed yet. And the HDSLRs didn't exist on the low end. So RED had all to themselves a massive huge market between the likes of Panasonic DVX100 etc on the low end and shooting on Super 35mm (or perhaps the Sony PWM-F900R) on the high end (which is VERY expensive!). Maybe RED's most direct competition was Super 16? (it's a middle ground between DVX100 vs S35) So it was easy to make a strong case for RED. 
But within a couple of years things very quickly changed:
ARRI ALEXA & Sony F35 etc got released, which meant the very high end for digital was no longer RED's. 
HDSLRs & HD camcorders such as the Sony EX3 got released so that the low end HD was no longer RED's. 
But as each year went by, it became worse and worse for Sony. 
As quickly you got RED being squeezed and attacked from all directions:
1) HDSLRs / mirrorless got better with 4K and even 10bit, killing even more of the low end market for RED. A filmmaker that in the past might have been happy to financially overstretch themselves to the max to try and get Scarlet-X for their thesis film, is now happy to shoot it on a newly released Panasonic GH4 with an Atomos recorder. 
2) Mainly Blackmagic (but to a lesser extent ZCam/Kinefinity/AJA/etc as well) killed off a lot of appeal for RED in the low end raw/ProRes niche of the market. And even attacking them hard in the mid range once the URSA Mini came out. Plus once the likes of ALEXA XT etc got released, making older ALEXA Classics increasingly more affordable to rent, then that too killed away the mid range for RED> 
3) The low/mid end for slow motion got killed by Sony FS700, and once the Phantom cameras came out they killed the high end for RED. And with time this just got worse and worse for RED, as more and more cameras could do better and better slow motion. 
4) compact cameras (for gimbal / steadicam / crash / cranes / etc) on the high end got killed once the ALEXA Mini was released, and had already been chipped away at by the mirrorless and BMPCC on the lower end
5) the low/mid range for documentaries / corporate / advertising / etc got massively eaten away at with the release of the Canon C300mk1 & C100, and then full on demolished once the Sony FS7 came along, almost no point for using RED at all. 
What was once a big area for RED between S35 level vs DX100 level filmmaking when the RED ONE was released has shrunk now to almost nothing. 
Remember too, that the camera rental is a very small part of an overall budget for a production in many cases. The difference between renting a RED Gemini vs an ARRI Alexa Mini is a rounding error for them. So why choose the RED?? 
And if someone is super strapped for cash, will they want to splurge on renting a RED Gemini or will they be happy to settle for the likes of an URSA Mini Pro or a Sony FX6 or Canon C300mk2 etc? (and probably, these cameras will be even better suited to the nature of this type of filmmaking) 
 
 
Indeed, you might have missed the boat on getting your hands on your dream camera! They're unaffordable now. 
ah right, two totally different sensors
Would make more sense to compare a Epic-X vs Scarlet-X that are both using the same MX sensor. 

Looks like a winner on the FX30. Gimbal one and done lens maybe

Yeah boot times don't bother me too much. I am used to them with older red cameras or Alexas. 

2k 444 is ideal for me codec wise. Should be pretty nice if its downsampling from the 4k sensor. 

Rolling shutter is a bit annoying but 15ms is very usable. I have honestly never noticed rolling shutter ever across my life shooting videos, other than for strobe lighting. 

So the old RED cameras don't get any credibility anymore?
Wow..  considering how great the image is, and considering RED was never perceived as a consumer brand, it's a pretty fickle attitude!
However did you guess?!?!
❤️❤️❤️
Actually, after recent releases, the second hand market for them might have gone vertical!

Look around what are people local to you shooting with? 
Most likely they're using Sony FX6 (or perhaps FX9) bodies. So just follow the herd and do the same. 
But there are pockets of local groups of people around which have gone in another direction, such as they're mainly using Canon C500mk2 for documentary / corporates / etc which have a reasonable budget. Often all it takes is just a few key leaders or production companies in that local region to go together down a certain path, and the whole local region follows them, and there isn't a single Sony camera in sight. 
However, if you are working purely for yourself / in house, then it doesn't  matter what brand or camera model you choose! 
But if you are working for others, then following what others use matters a lot. 
Had a friend who purchased the Sony FS7 right when it was released, did pretty well working with that, and he got to a point that he felt like he was "outgrowing the FS7" and had the money to buy something better. 
By this point in time the ARRI ALEXA Mini had been out for a couple of years, had proven itself, and no longer did you have crazy insane long wait list times if you wanted to buy one himself. 
But a ALEXA Mini was way outside is budget range. 
So what is the natural upgrade from a FS7? The F5/F55 are "upgrades", but are more similar than different. Definitely not what he was seeking. 
What then? He settled upon the Panasonic Varicam LT, which had recently been released (came out the year after the ARRI ALEXA Mini). He sold his Sony FS7 to raise extra funds, with his extra saved up money, he purchased a brand new Panasonic Varicam LT. (but he only got the Varicam after very extensively testing it, renting and borrowing it from others. Not just to run tests on it, but to use it on real world productions too. I worked on a couple of those productions which he shot with a Varicam LT, prior to him buying his own. He really did very very thoroughly all of his homework before settling on a new camera to buy)
Seems like a rational decision. Was the next step up in price (over double the price of a FS7) and quality from a FS7. Has much better low light performance, & much better color science than the FS7. Plus did timecode and raw better than the FS7. In a way, the Varicam LT was even "better" than the ALEXA Mini, with better slow motion, better low light, better audio, and true 4K. (only downsides being it is bigger/heavier than a Mini, and it is "not an ARRI")
Well, what seemed like a great idea on paper, in reality was one of his worst financial decisions. 
Because for the higher end jobs above the FS7 level, then usually they only want an ARRI camera. He's not landing the higher end jobs with the Varicam LT. (plus ARRI cameras are cheaper than you think, relative to the total cost of a project. It doesn't make sense for them to pinch pennies and settle for the cheaper Varicam LT)
Thus he wasn't earning any extra money due to spending almost double the FS7 amount on a new Varicam LT camera. 
But it was even worse than this, the Panasonic Varicam LT was losing him money. 
Because the bread and butter FS7 jobs were no longer hiring him as much, as they don't want to go with some weirdly different new camera, they want the tried and trusted Sony FS7 which all their other shooters use and slots perfectly into their workflow and productions. 
Owning the Panasonic Varicam LT was a lose-lose situation for him. 
Quite sad really, even though on paper the Varicam LT was undeniably a much  "better" camera than a Sony FS7 (even "better" than an ARRI ALEXA Mini in a fair few ways as well).  

That's what I have been saying all along!
I reckon "marketing reasons" was a big factor. 
Just like why people sometimes choose to "shoot on an iPhone" for a project, to promote it like this. 
Would any of us be talking about this film for 6+ pages if he'd  used a FX6?? (or FX9)
Good point. The FX6 was incredibly new then. And although the FX6 was announced a few months earlier than the FX3, the demand for the FX6 was white hot. It took a very long time until you could easily source a FX6, especially a large number of them like Gareth needed. Yet the Sony FX3 from basically day one you could walk into any camera retail store and grab a couple off the shelf. 
Many of us do underestimate just how very long pre-production takes on these big productions, they'd have long before been running tests on their cameras before they started shooting. So they needed the cameras ready and available to buy way back then. 

I'm saying "in the real world" as shorthand for saying in a professional setting working with and for others on a filming production. 
Of course, if it is just for your own personal pleasure, then just use whatever warms your heart! 
Even the Barbie Doll Camera could be the right choice for you! 
 
Nice!! Start up your own thread @QuickHitRecord to track your Scarlet MX journey? Would be fascinating to follow. 
 
Why was this so difficult and expensive? Just need a setup for V lock to lemo power ? 
Such as:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1597736-REG/indipro_tools_vmrdk_v_mount_plate_with_15mm.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1470774-REG/hedbox_unix_0b_v_mount_adapter_power.html 
Interesting... more prone to failure than the Scarlet-X?? That's curious
Isn't the Dragon sensor a bit better at low light? As well as a stop more dynamic range? Thought Dragon also has more naturally accurate colors and better skin tones? 
Cheers for that detailed analysis! I would have thought the newer DSMC2 body of the RED Raven vs the older DSMC1 makes it a slam dank case for the RED Raven (if they're both at the same price. Unless you want PL lenses, which the Raven can't handle. Which to be fair, is by itself a strong argument against the RED Raven)
That is just begging to be reversed engineered.... ! Make your own DSMC2 I/O module. 
Even though they've both got "the same MX sensor" I've heard others who prefer the RED ONE as well. Perhaps all that extra weight and processing power gives it a little extra magical something?
 

I have been considering the Scarlet as well. I do prefer the Epic image. But Scarlet's are so cheap these days. 

I just bought a Scarlet-X that I am looking forward to working with. So that's my answer to the question posed in this thread. I already had lenses, batteries, and a monitor, so I purchased:
Scarlet-X brain with mini mag side module with dual fan replacement 2.0 (important!)
2x 480GB mini mags
Side grip
Red Pro top cheese plate
Red aluminum EF mount
V-mount battery solution (pretty difficult to find at a workable price!)
Nitze top handle and monitor mount

All in all, it set me back just under $3K.

I did a lot of research on the other legacy Red cameras before making this purchase. The Epic-X brains seem prone to failure. The Dragon-upgraded Epics and Scarlets have three OLPFs to choose from: Low Light (which is basically the same as the OLPF in front of the MX sensors and offers clean shadows but more limited highlights), Skintone/Highlight (nice highlight capture but noisy shadows above ISO 200), and the "Standard" OLPF which seems to fall somewhere in between the two extremes. Ultimately, I decided that clean shadows were more important to me than extra highlight range so I opted for the older MX sensor/OLPF.

Regarding crop, the more budget-friendly Scarlet-Xs are in the same boat as the Raven. The max resolution (disregarding the 12fps at 5K) on the Scarlet-X has a 1.14x crop when compared to 3perf Super35 film while he Raven has a 1.12x crop but is limited to a wider aspect ratio at that resolution. So they are pretty close in this regard. One thing to consider is that the Raven requires the ~$1K IO module if you want to plug a non-Red monitor into it, while the Scarlet comes with both SDI and HDMI ports standard. This pushed me over the edge and I decided to go with the older camera.

I did some side by side shots of the Scarlet-X with my Red One MX and have to say that I slightly prefer the image from the older camera (which is softer, cooler, and less contrasty). My original plan was to sell the R1MX, but now I'm having second thoughts.

It was marketing.
If it was shot on FX6 there would be zero press, but look at the social media frenzy that this film is enjoying - including this thread.  There are normally multiple feature films released per day, but how much press are you reading on photography / videography websites about any of the others?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187122/movie-releases-in-north-america-since-2001/

Such a shame the Varicam LT never took off. It really is an incredible cost/performance camera. Thought I guess it just sat in that awkward place between smaller and bigger projects. 

Nifty, can jump back and forth between 180VR and 360VR mode. 
That's often a downside of these dedicated all in one cameras (not camera rigs which are multiple camera bodies used together to do 360VR/180VR), they're only best at either one type or the other. 

A modern 2024 Sony a5100 and Panasonic GM1 would be really nice to have. 
  
That's a good idea, and a good little money maker to develop a plugin which automatically fixes moiré.
 
I too think the 1DXii is a small camera 😛 😉
 
Sorry, US$1M is far too little money for them to even answer the phone. 
 

My casual bed time reading for tonight. 
  
You don't happen to be Mark Lewis from youtube are you?? (I don't think so, by the IG story makes me wonder!)
You could get your own Sony RX1 these days now for "only" US$650 on eBay. 
 
Take a look at the Nikon Zfc (or Z30 if you want a truly small body) with a Nikon 26mm f/2.8 lens (a full frame lens!)
It is also a nearly 40mm FoV (on the Zfc camera body), but using a FF lens which is slightly shorter than even the Panasonic 20mm f1.7!!
Or get the massively cheaper (only US$149, but yes, it has autofocus!) TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 APS-C Lens for the Zfc. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1764445-REG/ttartisan_af2728_z_b_27mm_f_2_8_lens_for.html
Of get the 7artisans Photoelectric 35mm f/5.6 Pancake Lens for US$99 and pair it with the full frame Nikon Zf. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1628290-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a006b_z_35mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

A modern 2024 Sony a5100 and Panasonic GM1 would be really nice to have. 
  
That's a good idea, and a good little money maker to develop a plugin which automatically fixes moiré.
 
I too think the 1DXii is a small camera 😛 😉
 
Sorry, US$1M is far too little money for them to even answer the phone. 
 

My casual bed time reading for tonight. 
  
You don't happen to be Mark Lewis from youtube are you?? (I don't think so, by the IG story makes me wonder!)
You could get your own Sony RX1 these days now for "only" US$650 on eBay. 
 
Take a look at the Nikon Zfc (or Z30 if you want a truly small body) with a Nikon 26mm f/2.8 lens (a full frame lens!)
It is also a nearly 40mm FoV (on the Zfc camera body), but using a FF lens which is slightly shorter than even the Panasonic 20mm f1.7!!
Or get the massively cheaper (only US$149, but yes, it has autofocus!) TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 APS-C Lens for the Zfc. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1764445-REG/ttartisan_af2728_z_b_27mm_f_2_8_lens_for.html
Of get the 7artisans Photoelectric 35mm f/5.6 Pancake Lens for US$99 and pair it with the full frame Nikon Zf. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1628290-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a006b_z_35mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

Would love to check out a BS1H and a FX30. @IronFilm But that is just nerdom. And you already made me buy the awesome Cinealta F3 which I only have done test shots with so far.:) BS1HII with an inhouse clickon monitor like Red and a cooler name please.:)

Great input on the business side of operator-ownership! @IronFilm Even though your friend knew his stuff super well, it didnt prevent him from one of our and my biggest lacklusters, GAS, which even hinders creativity as @John Matthewshas pointed out in another thread. I didnt shoot anything meaningful this year and have been hiding behind lower end color grading gigs. That Varicam LT story is perfectly illustrating temptation and consequenes going along with purchases. It's also beautifully written. Thank you😊

FYI, the G9ii's manual is 832 pages long. Is that a record of some sort?