amweber21

5 minutes ago, sanveer said:

The accompanying video by the japanese guy outlined a lot of the specs. I don't remember whether it had a frame of the ProRes though. 

It looks limited to 5.7K 30p. So 1900 mbps is about right... Prores 6K 422 HQ at 30p is 2121mpbs.

Kodak is actually a M43 member with a camera and a couple lenses.

9 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

In all seriousness, I did want to love and even purchase several of these little buggers, but it didn’t ‘quite’ hit the mark for me and I fear any future one wouldn’t either.

I'd still recommend the original fp to anyone wanting to do only video, but it is a much better stationary camera than run and gun. I think your Lumix cameras would serve you better for wedding videography.

Although, in my last wedding I hung the fp L with a clamp high up as the ceremony space was extremely limited. With the small size it was  hardly noticeable. The tally lamp let me verify recording and the crop zoom let me use one my I series lenses with a small crop to get the frame I wanted. Recording raw directly to SSD and ran no problem for almost an hour. All handheld video was with the S1.

In situations like that it works great. I think there are a few revisions they can make to the next one to entice me to upgrade, but let's see where they take it. 

Just now, BTM_Pix said:

No word yet on whether that will adopt the new Canon industry standard metric for hybrid cameras of taking 8 seconds to switch between....

Unfortunately, the switch is still near instantaneous. Hope we get the glorious 8 second wait soon..😉

I have a Sigma fp L, and it is a fantastic camera. Sigma documented in it's lens firmware updates that the regular fp camera will get it's firmware in April.  

On 1/24/2022 at 12:34 PM, MrSMW said:

I presume no benefit for af users?

I have the: 35 f2, 65 f2 (my filming workhorses on the S1H), the new tiny 18-50 f2.8 (for static tripod and gimbal video work on the S5) and the still relatively small, 28-70 f2.8 (paired with the S1R) for stills.

Might pick up the 90 and the coming soon 20 this year depending on need…

Big fan of recent Sigma glass with L Mount!

Nothing for AF, other than the 35mm AF noise being reduced. I've updated my 35mm and 65mm and they work with linear support on the S1 perfectly. I am hoping it will work the other way so I can use my 24-105mm on the fp L with linear MF.

Looking to get that 20mm also to round out the kit!

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Nice, thanks. As an FP user, I also found this line quite interesting...

* SIGMA fp will be supported by updating to firmware which is scheduled to be released in April.

I wonder what else they'll be adding to that firmware.

We should know soon. The fp L 2.00 firmware is coming this Thursday the 27th. Other than the linear focus support, if there are any new additions we will most likely see them come to the fp in April.

Sets the cameras to match each other, and surprised they look the same. One of the dumbest exercises I've seen in a while. Full frame is nothing special compared to M43 by the same logic.

Thinking that DOF is the only reason to choose a sensor size is ridiculous. MF is often shot at the other end of the aperture spectrum where the detail, dynamic range, and physical size of the optical and sensor area provide an advantage in image fidelity, or retaining the DOF while stopping down where a lens preforms better.

Alas, a typical Dpreview video.

23 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

The supposely wrong info was taken from the bh website. The author from diyphoto stated that in the comment section. 10bit photo raw is what my lumix g6 did in electronic shutter mode, lol. Must be wrong.

They must be referencing the HEIF format in stills. Only thing that makes sense. 

13 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I like the concept of the R5C. It’s the better FX3 from Canon. No IBIS is a slight bummer but RF lens IS + digital EIS will get the job done for static handheld. All the rest of the features are great to see. I wonder if the DR comparison with R5 is exactly the same. 

Is digital EIS even possible while shooting raw? I would think not, but I haven't seen it specified. 

I have been curious about doing something like this since the evf-11 was announced. I haven't yet bought it for my fp L, but it would be nice to at least relocate the evf on a rosette arm or similar for shoulder mounts, etc. I was thinking of converting my supplied HU-11 (that I never really use) into a mount with a fixed hdmi/usb cable extensions in place. It would need to be popped open to extract the 2 needed wires coming off the pogo pins. This no doubt supplies the evf-11 power. The 2 wires can be combined with the hdmi and usb extension (making sure to use cables that support the data throughput) into a single 6-12" heat shrink tubing wire lead.

The other end would be more complicated because it would need to mount onto something fabricated. One could either mount the evf-11 to an arm via the 1/4" 20 with possibly incorporating the locating pin somehow and just "plug in" the ends of each extension, or a more permanent base could be made. I suspect, using Sigma's provided CAD files for the fp and accessories would help to 3D print the terminal portion of the fp. The mounting could be customized depending on your need.

This would be fp specific, but to use it on a different device you would need to figure out the correct power requirement to supply the pins. There must be some type of 2 way communication between the evf and camera body, however. The switch on the evf tells the body to either supply power/video to the unit or disable it and use the lcd display. I have no idea if this is down through usb or the pogo pins somehow.

I would say it should be possible to do it on a fp body, but questionable on a different body. I would recommend to get a usb and hdmi extension cable and 2 wires for the pins, and just bridge the connections. See if it operates at all. I'd be happy to hear what you come up with!

Nice to hear! The Panny 1.8's might have made more sense, but I can't get over the build and craftsmanship of those Sigma I series lenses.

I've always felt a 50mm was the odd one. Not quite wide enough for wide shots, not quite long enough for portraits. And the 85 is a bit too long for general use. So the 65 for me has become the sweet spot sitting exactly in-between.

I'd like to try the 28-70, but I worry the CAF wouldn't come close to my 24-105 or even my 20-60, but I've noticed the Sigma zooms do a little better than their primes in this area. Should be faster in 4K 50p/60p as well.

On 11/24/2021 at 12:43 AM, MrSMW said:

Indeed. This is a feature of my full frame Panny cameras that I have been using recently.

For stills anyway…

For video, I’m already shooting APSC crop mode because I shoot 4k 50p as my default, but for stills I have a fn button assigned to crop mode which can be set as APSC or 1:1.

With my S5, I’d set it to the 1.5x crop mode but with the S1R and it’s 47mp, the 1:1 mode makes for a great option with about the same resolution as your average 24mp camera!

The added bonus is that when shooting raw, the full res image is preferred and you only see the crop in your image editing software.

I shot my most recent wedding this way using the Sigma 35mm f2 as my indoor lens and at 35mm and ‘70’, plus the 65mm f2 outdoor as 65mm and 130.

It’s like having a twin lens set up on your camera but ideally, the harder you crop, the more megapixels help with quality!

I just received my 65mm f2 yesterday to pair with the 35mm f2. Great lenses!

How was your experience using them on a job? This was exactly my thinking for a two camera setup.

Later I want to add the 18mm 1.8, whenever that comes out, and have a 18+27, 35+52, 65+97 kit with 3 lenses.

Good for my S1, but even better for my fp L which I use 1.5x but also 2x on. Being from m43 the 2x 15mp image isn't something I'm scared of. Most of the time for video I would use the 24-105mm for it's OIS, which has crazy good stabilization even without dual IS.

I just wish the 28-70 had OIS. I'd have no problem cropping to get the 105mm.

You absolutely do not need V90 cards for 6K. I have used my cheap Lexar 95MB/s cards with it which are V30, but you might as well get a V60 card to take advantage of UHS-II interface and are still far cheaper than V90 cards.

3 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

Sorry for the delay. I didn’t receive a notification for this post. Regarding your questions, I haven’t noticed any aliasing with 12 bit at all. And with respect to all of the, for the lack of a better term, pixel peepers, those things really don’t concern me. I just ensure that I have the proper composition, exposure and focus. Whatever “artifacts” that are there doesn’t dampen my goal, which is to just create some lovely artwork. Now if I’m experiencing some heavy moire, for instance when I’m downscaling from 4k to HD, then yes I’ll be mindful. However as I mentioned, these “artifacts” don’t bother me. 

Understood. Thanks for the answer, and, yes, it gives a beautiful image regardless of it's setting. I only notice when I'm doing specific technical testing with it, nothing in motion. I see something similar when shooting 1080p instead of UHD. Seems to be better to downscale in post if possible.

I guess my question is if it is capable of using the crop zoom function while kicking out a raw signal. I'm sure it is, but I haven't been able to confirm. Not only for the previous concern, but also because I like the ability it gives of "zooming" with primes.

3 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

Gerald’s review of the fp is based off his usage, which is a personal thing and since he’s influential, his personal tastes are passed on to the sheep of the earth. 

For my personal needs, this camera exceeds plenty! I had the chance to purchase a BMD12K, Komodo, a GFX100 and a FX9, but decided on a pair of Sigma cameras. A fp and fpL kitted out with some lenses from Irix and Dulens. I also paired them with two Atomos Ninja Vs. 

I really watch these YouTubers just to get perspective. I make up my mind by simply testing and knowing what fits the workflow I want to use. 

I really like your setups, especially with the smallrig side handle.

Have you felt the need to drop to 1.3x crop on your fp L to avoid the aliasing similar to 12bit cDNG? I usually shoot 10bit when I need the width (which still looks great) but the raw output being only 12bit I suppose you cannot do this. Gerald complains about the raw output softness of the fp L but it's a sensor speed limitation and not really Sigma's fault.

I'd recommend the original fp for strictly video, but I love my fp L.

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Definitely not ideal for run and gun though its definitely doable. I think I would end up making a rig with a Vmount to power everything. Now its no longer a DSLR looking camera though. 

Yeah, I've been there owning various Ninjas and the original video assist 5" and 7", but all for shoulder rigs, where I didn't mind the size and weight and actually needed the monitoring function to view. And used anton bauer batteries to power the rig.

The Sigma fp L has spoiled me for being the smallest raw capable setup I own. Something that I can use my S1 with it's IBIS and keep it small all while shooting raw, would be perfect for me. 

I think the other problem is I know both must be working on something with the age of their recorders. Something more sleek and power efficient, smaller bezels, and smaller media type (at least for Atomos). The Ninja V+ went the opposite direction, but here's hoping there's something else coming. 

Yeah, I'd be more inclined to get that one than the Ninja. (probably due to BRAW though) On a set or tripod based it's not really an issue for me. It's personal projects or just filming for fun I don't want to put up with the weight. The 12G is still 400g + 2x batteries ~290g= 690g and that's just too much for a hotshoe to accommodate, in my opinion, unless you are keeping everything perfectly upright and straight the whole time, so we need mounting options. I also don't want a flimsy ballhead that doesn't stay straight so a hefty one of those plus a cage or at least a half cage and you're almost at 1kg or more of additional weight. It's like carrying a camera on top of your camera. 

It might work for some, but the same internals, just without any screen could shrink it down to less than half the size and probably consume half the power. Even with the same port selection. 150g body + single battery 145g = around 300g would be around that of a small flash and a much lower center of gravity. Far much more inconspicuous as well.

Great to have both options now. I just wonder which of the two companies, Atomos or Blackmagic, will be the first to design a product for people that don't want/need a monitor but still want raw. 

Atomos ninja star 2, or new hyperdeck shuttle, recording to sd uhs-ii, cf-express or, better yet, m.2 2242 with caddies, between 100-200 grams, internal battery/usb-c/battery plate/single np-f plate options, minimal OLED screen for settings, 1/4" mounting points, fanless design. Physical buttons, but recording triggered by hdmi.

After using a Samsung T5 on my fp L, I think wouldn't do a set up much bigger. I like to be handheld and a  500-600+ gram monitor plus the framework to hold such a monstrosity (I will never put that kind of weight on a bare hotshoe) is just too much. My Shogun 7" is hardly used anymore. 

I doubt we will see any of these raw formats used internally for a good long while, so this is the only way I think I'd be tempted to get it.

I have a strong suspicion we will still see DFD in the GH6. While I would love them to make the move, I feel the (presumably) stacked sensor might be all that is needed. We already see the massive difference in AF performance going from 24p to 60p. Read off speed and the amount of frames will determine it's effectiveness. If we can get a "AF Boost" mode in the GH6 that captures at 4K120p and then down converts to what ever frame rate you want 120,60,30,24 etc., you could get the benefit of fast DFD focusing at any frame rate. It would probably limit to 30 mins or whatever the 4K120p will be set to, but could be switched off to get unlimited 4K or to use 5.7K (probably 30 mins also). Without high frame rates it will no doubt faster than what we've seen, but I think 24p always hampers it's potential a bit.  

This seller is beginning to sell a pretty cool looking SSD enclosure for the fp cameras. It might appeal to users who dislike any cables hanging off their cameras or a super compact setup.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w4004-17359871405.19.79642ef0r1p5zA&id=645136995058

I hoped they would have updated the design. I would have like to see an end to the 2.5" drives, especially the unnecessarily expensive and proprietary atomX drives, in favor of an m.2 enclosure. Would have a far smaller footprint and makes room for a return to dual battery slots. The unsymmetrical weight distribution bothers me. An updated 1500-2500 nit screen would be nice as well as a reduction in bezel size. Wonder how long they will remain the only game in town for ProresRAW recording.

I wish I had an original fp to compare to the fp L, and due to it's dismissal by most of the "popular" sources I wouldn't hold my breath on many of them doing tests. There are a few videos comparing the still aspects of each so that might tell you something.

Personally, I wanted it for both stills/video but an emphasis on stills, so the fp L made more sense. If you want strictly video the fp would be the better option. As with any high res camera it is not as good in low light, and little more rolling shutter. The only catch I see is the bit worse read off in full sensor 12bit, that the the fp doesn't have. It is most likely a limitation of the sensor. It doesn't bother me, but it might to some. Under good conditions they should be visually identical in quality, and miles better than most. 

4 hours ago, kye said:

I actually think that it's a pretty killer camera for cine uses.  

If you're a P4K / P6K potential customer then I think you're also an FP / FP-L potential customer because you're willing to rig the camera up for external storage, you're willing to deal with large file sizes, you're willing to deal with external power solutions (although that's way better on the FP than the BMs), you're willing to sacrifice RS performance for image, etc.

The compromises that prevented me from buying an FP were to do with the lower bitrate codecs and the elements that are more 'video' than 'cinema', but even those could be fixed in firmware updates down the track potentially.

And yeah, alternatives?  None.  Most cameras have competitors that overlap with all or almost all features, but even the closest alternatives to the FP or FP-L have quite a number of significant differences, so really there's nothing even close.

You hit the nail on the head. To say it has no users is ridiculous. It is in more line with a Blackmagic camera, but, in my opinion much less comprises and more "conveniences".

More reliable and far better built. Smaller and lighter even with grip or cage, better autofocus (seems about on par with my A7rII and A7sII), a more adaptable mount than the EF 6Ks, and the entirety of the stills mode.

But there are more similarities than differences. Mostly in it's use cases. Someone willing to be a little more manual, controlled, and methodical in how they shoot. This goes for photography as well. If you are mostly a single point, AFS/MF shooter like me it's great.

I would also like to see the addition of a more solid compressed video option, but the 4K8bit internal is actually better than most internal codecs of others. It's surprisingly rigid when pushing it in post even being only 8bit. A fair bit of recovery, zero compression, and all the benefits of raw. Changing WB/tint to get your colors set is still better than a 10bit file. I have to test more to see how well it can do with heavy gradations. The only issue is sd storage, but that will get better over time and if you have the money for it. 

The question is if you need 6K or are fine with a downsampled 4K. I like the idea of 6K and been using it on my S1, but shooting raw, carrying the extra data for 6K to downsample it to 4K in post might not matter. There is no way they could incorporate 6K30 or even 4K60 as the sustained data rates are too high even for most current SSDs (in cinemaDNG). So while excepting compression is out of the picture, I'm good with it downsampling and then retaining all the data possible.

There really are no alternatives, especially for full frame cameras. I feel it sits right between Blackmagic cameras and modern hybrid mirrorless cameras. A hybrid cinema camera if you will.

They do have some quirks, and are much more minimalistic than other cameras, but that's what I wanted. Clean, simple, and small.

I didn't get the evf, and while it would be nice to have, the screen is great and I've had no problems outdoors. Might pick it up used one day. If you know which shutter speeds to use and which to avoid in artificial lighting you can get around banding pretty easy. The couple manual lenses I tried worked great. 

I can't say much about rolling shutter. In cinemaDNG it's apparent if you whip it around, but improves a little the tighter you crop. It's not an issue for me in normal shots, and there are modes to use if you need a shot with a lot of movement.

I didn't think I would utilize internal raw much, but after testing the 8bit UHD, it's impressive. When not needing maximum dynamic range, it is not a big step down from full 12bit. I do not have a v90 card, and even the highest capacity will give you only 10-20 minutes, but in the coming years I'm sure we'll get 512/1tb cards that will solve that. If you're fine with 1080p raw you will get longer record times and the ability to use cheaper v60 cards with 8/10/12bit available. The samsung t5 I use isn't too unwieldy though as I attach it directly to the grip. So it screws on in seconds.  

All in all a lot to like, despite the negativity it's received.

Received my fp L this morning. I have to say I'm very impressed. I am able to customize it perfectly how I want, including all buttons and dials. Rear dial set to ISO control, and even the tone button as I'll never use that. I only wish they had a quicker option to jump into auto ISO and minimum shutter settings for stills. I am not able to figure out if you can set it to separate modes between cine and stills. Right now I must switch between M in cine and A in stills every time.

Battery life is not the best, but manageable. Auto focus is nothing to write home about (I'm a Panasonic user so no big deal). I see no problem with flickering or skewing in normal use shooting so far. 

Did a couple tests in video. 12bit at a crop of 1.0x-1.24x it definitely suffers from some line skipped artifacts and is noticeably softer viewed at 100%. The good news is everything else is great. 1.3x and on is sharp and detailed. When switched to 10bit all modes, including 1.0x, are good. I will probably keep it in 10bit when wider or when the scene is not too demanding, and when I can get away with cropping it I'll switch to 12bit.