wondo

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hello Wondo

Hard to say isn't it? I cannot figure out the business side of it at all. Surely the EOS R5 at 4400 euros is an important release that makes more profit overall than a more niche C200. So either it is internal politics that have played out badly, or possibly a buggy cripple algorithm. But really I do not have the answer. Canon owes us that. It could even be internal sabotage for all I know.

The strangest things for me are the following facts:

- Canon marketed it as 'comfortable on C300 III productions' and made a big thing about the 8K RAW, so were marketing even aware of the limitation?

- The cool down times are unreasonable. After a shut down at 62C, I can leave my camera on a desk for 1 hour turned off and come back to find only 5 mins 8K. There is no chance in hell any silicon or metal stays above 60C for that period of time inside a device that has no power. I even removed the battery, took the lens off and opened the card door to vent the internals. No 'weather sealing' at play here.

- There is only a small possibility that the EXIF temp is a long way off the CPU core temps. Also the Chinese guys with the heat guns were able to read the real surface temp of the chip and back of camera, which correlate closely to the EXIF temp we read from the intervalometer shots

- Why go to so much effort to build this absolute cutting edge machine.... Only not to let us use it?

It's a mega camera. That they saw fit to do this is so far beyond any realm of understanding.

People talk about plastic melting or safety regulations... But none of it can explain why 46C after 30 mins causes the camera to shut down immediately when switched to video mode, but 46C after 2 mins allows you to record 15 mins of 8K.

46C or even 62C are so far below what is considered unsafe.

The camera is not even hot to the touch.

Pulling the Cfexpress card out after the max 8K recording time is up, and that is hot but not uncomfortably... all normal. It gets hotter in my ProGrade card reader.

hey andrew,

what puzzles me most is how naive and irrational this whole thing is.

as you said, marketing it as perfect companion to a c300II without knowing about the bugs? those guys are not 3 year olds or us president....

so there must be a plan or an idea behind this... just not sure what it is! 🙂

i think there`s a guy above the r5 AND cinema eos guys, and he surely owns a pocket calculator.

canon is a company that is on the stock market and that rules out that decisions are made just because somebody is too proud or too vain. 

if andrew is right, the big question that remains is why did they do it??? and why did they do it in such an excessive way?

if the camera had a hardware flaw and they would do a lot of pr to downplay it i would totally understand that.

but crippling a camera by firmware to a point where it becomes unusable does not make any sense.

limiting it to protect cinema eos sales?, ok, limiting it to protect sales of the next model?, ok, but totally ruining it?

development of this thing must have cost tons of money, and even if they wanted to protect cinema eos sales, there is still a bit of math do be done to understand whether this is reasonable by any means.

cinema eos cams are pretty much a niche product and i don`t see why they would protect them at such a high cost?

andrews findings are shocking, and if true, i`d really like to know the reason they did it?

there are a lot of statements on here about how much of a scandal this is and how bad canon is behaving, and given the fact that canon is not a chinese two man brand run by lunatics makes me even more eager to get to know the "mechanics" behind this...

problem solved! 🙂

you just need to cut your nostril hair before using the viewfinder!!

problem solved 🙂

two things really puzzle me when i read through these posts.

a: i don`t think anyone is forced to buy this camera but a lot of the posts read like people already did and now live in a constant nightmare.

b: from looking at the whole thing it does not seem like canon is trying to keep the issue under wraps, they gave pretty honest info about it, so where`s the scandal? of course they aimed for the middle ground like any other company would do.

canon took a big gamble to have 8k on the box just in time before the olympics. well, the olympics are called off and canon has to deal with quite a mess. question is, was it worth it?.

we all know that there is no "ultimate review" that is right about everything, answers all questions, and is totally unbiased.

and it should be common knowledge that you need to read a lot of them and then take home the pieces of info that concern you. and right now there are not enough reviews out to get a clear image.

quick question... where do you guys watch 8k material? or even 4k?

so i would have to pay for a 12k camera just to get insanely sharp 4k images and then put a shitload of filters on the lens, and probably a net on the back, just to get nice cinematic images?

this is nuts!

who needs this? and why??

andrew,

forget about that paycheck argument, and any "proof" about being a pro cinematographer or not. you can not measure this way.

i always worshipped your honest opinion, and an emotional outburst just proofs that there`s a human being behind all of this, that does not write reviews on his pocket calculator. admitting that you went a little over the top just underlines that.

another big plus for you.

the PR machinery has chewed up a lot of unbiased coverage these days and i never know wether all the praise was bought or is true. except on eoshd!

for me the latest canon coverage was the final nail in that coffin, how can anyone with a sound mind write something positive about this thing? well, you probably can if you`ve been to hawaii...

and what`s the use of that BM event (for us readers) without any attendee being allowed to shoot a single frame himself? what we as readers end up with is just a bunch of blog posts that basically read like the tec specs list of the camera, i could have gotten that info from BM`s website a lot easier... 

best,

wondo

andrew,

i know you and the fact that they fear your honest opinion honors you.

so don`t worry about not being invited etc.. and maybe rant a little less about it...

i know an honest review if i see one and i`m pretty fed up with the "friendly" ones that come as a return favor.

so please give less of a shit about what mediocre tv shooters that are on bm`s payroll say and keep up the good work!

best,

wondo

​sorry andrew, but now you`re really loosing it....

NOBODY needs that kind of "talent" on screen or in the industry.

this is clearly a case where fame went to somebody`s head and made him think that he can get away with everything.

now the bbc told him that this is not the case, bravo!

best,

wondo

​+1

you will need new lenses for 50mp.

even medium format is on the edge at 50 mp... and this is a dslr.

so there`s a high chance that buyers will fill up their hard drives in a breeze just to have higher resolving details in chromatic aberration and soft images, where`s the point in that?

18/25/35/50/65/85 - T1.3 please....

hey andrew,

now look what you`ve done!

you put an f35 in a list that is titled "DSLR! video quality rank"....

now the forum explodes with questions about the c100, c300, fs7, and jcs even lectures about the f65!? brilliant! :-)

best,

wondo

... just googled f35 + odyssey q7..... very interesting.....

hdmi now also goes out to the back...

carbon fiber would be nice but i`m lacking the know how for that. 

well... let`s try sealing it with silicone and then wait how long it will run until it melts down :-)

i think there is a portabrace cover/bag available that will do the trick with rain and also serves as a hood for better viewing... but it looks very complicated.. not my piece of cake.

this cage has hdmi locks and is deep enough to cover the whole unit. you can now lay it on it`s back without resting it directly on the bnc ports.

BUT it adds 260gr of weight, the raw cage was 600gr and i took away as much as possible.

shogun cage prototype ready.... 

awaiting comments for next version. :-)

​just cleaned the screen and the bloody logos came off! :-)

well... makes it easier to apply a screen protector.

shogun cage almost ready, just need to reduce the weight... a bit like an iphone, first thing you have to do is buy a protective case...

the brittle hdmi connection bothers me most... need to find better cables with better angles and flexibility.

​well... you know my problem...

always looking for that little b-cam that can go seamlessly with an alexa, epic or f65...

just a couple of frames here, a second there, uncomplicated and reasonably small, one step below an extra epic body from the rental house.

by uncomplicated i mean that it should not be a nightmare to expose, with 500 different approaches for every setup, millions of menus to go through, and always haunted by that erie feeling that you forgot to set something way down in the menu jungle.

i don`t want to spend every lunch break with the dit :-)

shoots are stress and i have a million other things to care about, besides camera set ups, codecs, etc.

on the last shoots the a7s worked quite well on car interiors etc.

but looking at the setup now with the shogun attached this thing became quite a beast. and the hdmi cable that sticks out 10cm is an accident waiting to happen, especially when you`re not sitting under a tree doing a time lapse of a mushroom.

as you can imagine, my cnc is already spinning up for the shogun cage/armour, it needs a proper hdmi safety and is much too weak for a tough shoot. will email you pictures...

so for me a used 1dc is quite an attractive option, could use my 058w as a finder, not to mention the tons of L glass that sit on my shelf.

but before i make that decision it would be good to know if it is only marginally better or a real advantage over the a7s.

and andrew, one more thing, can`t you do a post about hdmi cables? i`ve been searching my ass off for decent ones, even bought the atomos cables (that don`t fit into the a7s cable safety, nor the movcam cage!) plus i never seem to find cables that have the right angle etc.. for the shogun for example the best cable for me would come with a 90 degree angle to the right and then go down directly to the camera.

best,

wondo

so doug`s comments made you tick? :-)

very eager to read about your findings...

but please don`t make the same mistake and write everything in the 1dc`s favor just because it was so expensive! :-)

hey andrew,

picked mine up today as well...

great monitor, interface, case, accessories, etc..

the one thing i`m not sure about is the build quality and the choice atomos made concerning the materials.

i`d rather have spend a few € more for a decent aluminum body, i`m pretty sure that the shogun will wear out quiet fast on a hot set, especially the screen.

from looking at it... this thing screams scratch! :-)  

best,

wondo

great! need to blow the dust off my 8X10 and start building....

first stop... ground glass without markings.. ?? and better fresnel... 

great job rich!

been thinking about this since the first dof adaptors came out...

next stop is 4X5" !! :-)

andrew!

where are the night shots? and what happened to depth of field?? that stuff looks sharp from the front element to infinity!!

sophisticated guess... no big nd`s available?? or nowhere to put them??