stephen

Engadget published some specs. 1. It comes out February with a price tag of 2000$ or less. Wow this is definitely a surprise for me. 2. UHD content can be recorded at 200 Mbps, and output in a full live feed via a mini-HDMI port (thanks to ALL-I Intra mode) to display on a computer or record to a hard drive. Or footage can be recorded straight to an SDXC card -- a UHS Class 3 prototype variant tuned for such a task was on display 3. It can take pictures while recording video. The most interesting part however is missing. Will it be able to record 10bit 4:2:2 ?

Question is will the new camera deliver something like 10bit ProRess 4:2:2 or RAW. 4K not important

The writing is on the wall. Already posted this article on another thread: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/market-readies-flood-4k-cameras-599612   “Companies like Blackmagic Design have offered the earth at no cost, and it has forced other manufacturers to take note,” said Young. “I believe you will see far more activity from the more mainstream manufacturers that will blow those kind of solutions out of the water.”    BHphotovideo store is now shipping BMPCCs preordered in April. Number of pre orders is in the thousands for this model alone and for this store alone. It seems to me this is a fast growing niche :)  Don't think big Japanese camera makers will stay still and watch BMD playing alone. Other sources also tip Japanese companies have spotted the niche and will respond. Technology is already present and available basically for free, just look at Canon cameras.  All they need to do is:   a) Add a USB3 instead of USB2, which Pentax already did in K3, stream the live view video feed and let external recorders companies know the format. OR b.) Place a better processor in the camera and use some sort of visually lossless codec as Cineform RAW for example. That would be a little bit more expensive solution but will save money on external recorder and fast storage. So they can sell such cameras at higher price.    If till now Big Japanese Camera companies have hold back on RAW video to protect their higher end and much more expensive models  or because few years back storage was still slow and expensive or because it was a very small market for them, this is no longer the case IMHO. The genie is out of the bottle. With BMD cameras on the market and ML hack, RAW video is already available at very low price point even with some quirks. So what choice do they have :     a.) Stay and watch BMD taking the niche with all the profit and glory and possibly growing stronger. We don't know how small or big this market is but for sure it is growing.      b.)Prepare and start selling their own cameras with RAW video at the same price levels.   Not everybody needs RAW and not for every project. Agree with ScreensPro: You don't need RAW to create a masterpiece. Chrales Chaplin's movies are still among my favorites despite being black and white, low resolution without speech and some of them don't even have constant 24p  :)   But it's great to be able to use the new tech and enjoy the image quality and explore the exciting opportunities it opens. Never such a high image quality for movies/videos was so affordable and widely available (well almost as BMD still struggles to ship their cameras in quantities :) ).    So yeah RAW video in 1000$ to 2000$ cameras from Big Japanese companies is coming. For me it already came in the form of ML RAW hacked 5D Mark II. :)  Despite the quirks it's amazing and I am happy.  Especially after watching this guy  :) :  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8m5d0_everything-is-amazing-and-nobody-i_fun

IMHO at this price point NEX 9 or whatever Sony calls it won't be very successful. Rumors say price for body only will be close to RX1.  http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-nex-ff-only-15-bigger-than-the-nex-7-available-in-october/   For amateur photographers there is no point to buy NEX 9 when Canon 6D and Nikon D600 are much cheaper now at 1500$. Even D800 can be found at around 2500$. For the price of NEX 9 body they will come kitted with lenses and everything.    My take is NEX 9 will cater for PRO, semi PRO photographers flock and there will be nothing exciting on the video front. Combined with some Zeiss lenses in 24 - 80mm range where size can be kept in control and lenses can be reasonably small (big), it would appeal to the pros and semi pros looking for highest possible image quality in smallest possible package but at high price. This is not a big market but there is some money to be made and Sony will take any opportunity.   There are cheaper tools for stealth photography too:  http://www.43rumors.com/gx7-tets-by-magnum-photographer-thomas-dworzak/   Miniaturization doesn't seem to be an important factor for the majority of photographers and/or usage cases. Sales figures seem to prove such a conclusion. So far expectations that mirrorless interchangeable camera systems with electronic viewfinder will blow DSLRs out of the water doesn't seem to materialize. Yes there is a sound logic behind mirrorless - removal of mechanical parts and as result cheaper, smaller, lighter bodies, better suited for video etc., but sales reports and analyzes doesn't indicate such a shift http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2013/08/09/weak-demand-for-mirrorless-cameras-hurting-manufacturers http://www.dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking&view=all   One interesting thing for the majority of us in NEX 9 could be RAW video. But Sony has serious video camera business to protect. Their recent track record on video in NEX and ALPHA systems is rather appalling. Don't expect any revolutionary changes.   Having in mind that market will be flooded with affordable 4K cameras in next 6 months and most likely this will be true for RAW as well, it's better to wait and see.   http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/market-readies-flood-4k-cameras-599612   My bets are on Nikon. If you remember they started this whole video DSLR frenzy with D90. They don't have video business to protect. Rumors are upcoming D400 will have a very large buffer which kind of hints for possible RAW video. V3 may use the new Aptina 1'' sensor, which can output 60p in 4K and will be announced in next month. So let's just wait and see but I doubt NEX 9 will be my next camera.

Same for me. Was thinking to get the BMPCC but now with the RAW hack am leaning more toward 5D Mark III. Already own GH2 and a couple of m43 lenses and always considered 5D Mk III bloody expensive for amateur like me.  So BMPCC seemed the more logical path, but not anymore. Magic Lantern team really made my life difficult.  :)   Not a fan of shallow DOF and full frame aesthetics either but 5D has some key advantages over BMPCC.                 1. It doubles as a great stills camera. Stills photos are important to me. 5D is in fact one of the top stills cameras. With BMPCC will need to have GH2 in my bag with me and GH2 is far from top in stills photo department.                     2. With BMPCC wide angle lenses are a problem. Have 14mm and 20mm pancakes but they become 40mm and 60m on BMPCC 2.83 crop factor sensor.  And without the GH2 in body correction, they show heavy barrel distortion. You can correct it in post but not sure how good the result will be for RAW video. And it's going to be time consuming. Will need to buy SLR Magic 12mm f1.6 and most likely speed booster + something like Tokina 11-16 to fully cover wide angle. Total damage 2500$ to 2600$, which is very close to Canon 5D Mark III price.  And Tokina 11-16 + speed buster is not small anymore, which is one of the BMPCC advantages.                 3. Great low light capability of Canon 5D.                 4. 1:1 crop factor on Canon 5D, if this works reliably. Suddenly you have the BMPCC s16 crop factor sensor and full frame sensor in one camera. Choose the aesthetics you like. 1:1 crop factor comes also with much better low light capabilities than BMPCC.                 5. Like the image coming out of  5D Mark III RAW  video more than the one from BMCC. This is very subjective and depends on proper grading etc. but most of the time 5D image is more pleasing to me.   Biggest problem with 5D so far is hack reliability. BMPCC offers easier workflow with ProRes and use of cheaper flash cards. So for the time being still using my GH2 but again 5D seems to be the better solution for me, if ML team can make the hack 100% stable at 1080p.

DXOMark rates Canon 50D close to GH2 in term of low light performance and in general. 5D Mark II is one stop and a half better in high ISO including dynamic range. The difference between 15MPx and 18Px is not that big. For example 20D and 30D were 8MPx cameras.  There is no serious evidence so far that 50D will be as good as 5D Mark II in low light.    But one of the two sample footage we have shows less moire and aliasing than 5D Mark II. We have to see some good comparison  before drawing final conclusions.    So far 5D Mark III is outstanding: 1080p clean with great detail, low light performance, very little moire and aliasing. Mark II is second with less resolution, still OK when up scaled to 1080p but some really pronounced moire and aliasing.    We have to see if the image from 50D will be better than Mark II at least in daylight. It would be interesting to see how 50D and 5D Mark II perform against 5D Mark III in RAW video.   Until we see some real good footage from 50D am holding my purchase. So far none except 5D Mark III gets me excited about RAW. If am going to spend hours and hours on the computer to process RAW footage better have a good reason to do it. Time sometimes has more value than money. Would rather spend 1000$ on BMPCC.

Some say there is a half stop light loss with the converter. So the lens becomes f/3.2-3.5. Which seems very logical and reasonable to me. But interestingly GH2 still displays aperture f2.5 with the converter.  Maybe the lens tricks GH2 to believe it's a f/2.5 while it is f/3.2 ? But there is no change in histogram and exposure parameters with and without the converter. Don't see the light loss in the LCD or viewfinder too. So don't know what to think but let's be realistic and say there will be some half stop of light loss, even GH2 doesn't detect it. 

This is what I call the poor’s man wide angle lens for BMPCC :)   Currently use it on my GH2 and it will work even better on BMPCC. It’s a 14mm Panasonic lens + Wide Angle Converter.  In my case Sony VCL-ECU1 converter instead of the original Panasonic one. When I bought mine Panasonic one was not available yet. Learned about this strange combo on a forum a year ago. With the converter image is probably slightly less sharp in the extreme corners but still perfectly usable and OK for me. Much better than what I typically see from C Mount lenses. And it will be even less of a concern for video. There is some distortion but still acceptable for me. Fairly compact, light and relatively fast as f2.5 is retained with the converter  Don't know how they do it but there is no light loss. On BMPCC  14mm will become a nice bi focal lens - 40mm and 30mm at f/2.5 (0.75 conversion ratio ) Not bad for 350$ that paid for the combo. On BMPCC extreme corners will not be visible as the camera will use only the central portion of the 14mm lens frame. Distortion and slight blur in the corners will be pretty much gone. I am satisfied with this solution on GH2 and it will work even better on BMPCC. It's not the fastest lens but with GH2 on ISO 1600 it works in most of my low light shooting scenarios. On GH2 it’s the equivalent of 22mm lens and I rarely go that wide on video.  Interestingly Sony converter clicks on 14mm Panasonic lens and it’s fairly stable.

IMHO the exact ratio of BMPCC to Full Frame is 2.88 Full Frame Active sensor area for full HD video is 36 x 20.25mm diagonal = sqr(36)+sqr(20.25)=sqrt(1706.0625) = 41.30 BMPCC active sensor area 12,48 x 7,02 mm diagonal = sqr(12.48) + sqr(7.02) = sqrt(205.0308) = 14.3189 41.30/14.3189 ~ 2.88 Which is the same if you simple divide the long sides - 36/12.48 ~ 2.88 Most C-Mount lenses cover 2/3'', 1/3'' and 1/2'' inch sensor sizes. Probably only 10 to 15% of all C Mount lenses cover the 1'' sensor size needed for BMPCC. So most will vignette heavily on BMPCC and among those which do cover correctly the 1'' sensor size there may be still problems. Like: 1. Will the lens work without modification on a C- Mount to m43 adapter. Some don't. Can't focus on infinity and need some rework. 2. Is the image quality good enough. Most of those are surveillance camera lenses not optimized for high quality photo/video/film work. From what I've seen image quality on GH2 (tele converter mode) doesn't look good. It doesn't make sense to buy BMPCC which is supposed to give great image quality and stick a poor soft lens in front of it. My hopes are in Metabone Speedbooster for m43.