Caleb Genheimer

4 hours ago, kye said:

I find this conversation to be quite amusing.  

Maybe we should rename it "videographers discover cinema cameras aren't designed for them" 🙂

Neither is the grip equipment required to support a Classic 😂

On 8/24/2021 at 1:56 AM, sanveer said:

Oh ok. Thanks to China (Fauci, Bill Gates, etc too?), Covid has slowed down the world, and ensured most peoples lives are seriously disrupted. Also, the super shady behaviour of the UN (Tedros) and others is extremely strange.  

 

 

I feel the Panasonic autofocus part can be explained in 3 parts.

'Of course, we have received various opinions from our customers, and we recognize that image-plane phase-detection AF is superior in terms of subject tracking. On the other hand, as represented by deep learning, we are improving AF performance by strengthening algorithms that utilize the video signal processing technology which we are good at.

We are currently developing the next-generation system with the aim of making it even more practical, so please wait until the day we can provide it.'

1. "we have received various opinions from our customers, and we recognize that image-plane phase-detection AF is superior".

This means Panasonic know how urgently customers have been asking for AG to be improved (which for many, may be the sole thing lacking in Panasonic cameras).

2. "... as represented by deep learning, we are improving AF performance by strengthening algorithms that utilize the video signal processing technology which we are good at."

Which is corporate gibberish at its finest.

3. "We are currently developing the next-generation system with the aim of making it even more practical.."

Either they're reinventing the wheel or giving us some unbelievable story regarding DfD, which is quite unreliable, and needs to be phased out on new cameras.

If they don't fix the AF, it may be aufweidersehen for Panasonic. Which would be sad, because Panasonic seems to have gotten most other things right. And the failure of the G7, G9, G95 and others as Student Indie Cameras may mostly be due to bad marketing. 

I’m more than a little suspicious that either:

A. Sony agrees to make sensors for Panny under the condition they stick to their current AF tech on chip, or-

B. Panny has unspoken knowledge that if they were to ask Sony to build them such a sensor, Sony would decline.

Sony makes great sensors, but Panasonic has a proven track record of being significantly better at utilizing those chips, and Sony I’m sure leverages their position to keep the playing field even. I suppose it is possible that there are patents on alternative AF tech which have been blocking Panny from switching, but it seems like Sony and Canon at minimum have AF well sorted, so it is surprising that Panny can’t seem to do the same.

All that being said, the various interviews in the last month strongly reinforce that Panny has zero intentions of switching up their AF tech, which is very disappointing.

On 8/6/2021 at 2:08 AM, Vintage Jimothy said:

Yeah, I'm honestly shocked that Panasonic have been taking so long to release their own top end Large Format cinema camera to compete with ARRI, RED and especially Sony. The Varicam was really popular with a ton of Netflix shows, but it's quickly been replaced for a ton of those productions with the Sony Venice. 

I’m fairly suspicious that using Sony sensors involves use-case restrictions, not slapping the S1H sensor into a cine body could be one of those.

29 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Compared to everything else on the market, there just isn’t anything that comes close for my requirements.

If (a big if) the next S[ ]H camera has proper AF AND internal ND, I’ll consider buying it. Otherwise, as soon as the next-best-thing hits market, I’ll enjoy that sweet and savory S1H price drop that we all know will arrive along with the new model release.

7 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Trust in these small, bullet proof cameras in any professional environment

Panny REALLY has their stuff “on fleek.” Bulletproof indeed. I’ve wandered off to Samsung and Blackmagic, but I always end up back with Panasonic, they really nail everything down. AF may be a bit behind the competition, but everything that works REALLY works and is 100% dependable.

There are some deals floating around on the S1H that I might just bite on soon, it seems like a decade kinda camera.

11 hours ago, currensheldon said:

BGH1-style

My body is ready for a BS1H like, YESTERDAY. I 110% would not complain if the “S2H” ditched hybrid form-factor entirely and went full cube-cam. For crying out loud, the S1H is already a significantly different chassis versus the S1/S1R/S5. ONE of the four could totally be a cube-cam, and it could still remain a hybrid in function (if not in form). Heck, plenty of stills cameras have historically been cubes anyway. 

16 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I have a MixPre6 II that has this and its pretty incredible. I doubt it will make it to any cameras anytime soon especially hybrids. Audio is an afterthought for most of them and their approach is if you want something better use a separate recorder. Panasonic's XLR module is excellent though for what it is and I use it all the time with the S5.

I use the same kit. It’s recently all over lower price brackets though. Zoom has a tiny body pack LAV recorder with 32bit float for sub-$200 USD. I’d say that indicates the chipsets are just as economical as whatever they’re currently putting in cameras, now it is more about people pressing them to add that feature.

Edit: if they wanna make their money, an XLR Module with 32bit float would definitely end up in my bag. But if the camera is capable of writing that to the card, may as well put the same tech in the camera body itself too… heck even for onboard scratch mics it’d be pretty handy.

@Andrew Reid

If you keep a list of things to poke camera manufacturers about, add 32bit float audio to the lineup. IMO it would be a paradigm shift in “scratch” and on-camera audio to include even a decent float system. Heck, a simplicity-first company like Blackmagic Design could do away with audio controls in float mode entirely, opting only for a headphone volume control (or even auto level monitoring).

I use a 32bit float recorder at work all the time, and I literally don’t have to think about its operation beyond power-up, verification of the mic signal, and hitting the record button.

Honestly I think what hurts Panny’s L-Mount beasts is their very own S1H perched high atop the pile. It deserves to be there, but a LOT of folks tend to shop between flagships, ignoring tertiary models. In reality… The S1/S5/S1R compare to everyone else’s lineups, and the S1H just… sits in its own tier. If they had sorted the AF, I’d probably have procured two and hung up my camera shopping hat for the next two decades. 

I think whoever integrates BRaw in body outside of Blackmagic will see big time adoption. 
 

BMD I think might be prohibiting it to protect the Pocket line, but honestly they will see Resolve Studio/Pocket sales on the tail end as folks buy B-cams and full versions of Resolve. Heck, they could limit “third party” BRaw files to Studio version only. 
 

I can’t stress how much better Resolve is versus FCPX, ergo how much better BRaw also is versus ProResRaw. I really want BRaw as the “new ProRes” industry standard, and I think BMD could do it easily if they let other parties put it in-camera. They claim to hate Atmos with a passion, yet they compete in the same space with monitor recorders... they need to one-up everyone else by putting BRaw into third party bodies.

Panasonic seems perfectly positioned for such a move, and it’s exactly the kind of thing that would sell truckloads of MFT cameras.

On 5/27/2021 at 7:46 PM, ntblowz said:

Apple challenge it and lost, and Apple have highest paid lawyers around.

Yea, I read more than a few articles at the time which seemed to think it wasn’t challenged from the ideal angle, but I’m no lawyer 

I still don’t understand RED’s stranglehold on the RAW patent bs. Like, it’s a painfully obvious method for compressing RAW, based on already-existing open tech (even when they originally “invented” it.) 

What, did the lawyers tasked with contesting it a while back just do a crap job? Or does RED just have a bunch of Big Dick Energy lawyers?? It’s absurd, and I’m still baffled that the big dogs haven’t banded together to take that patent out back and toss it in the dumpster where it belongs. 
 

Everyone wants internal RAW, and the codecs exist to do it easily. That’s what I want in a GH6. If not, then at minimum, ditch the stupid HDMI and implement a pro-grade SDI connection.

I’ve also been dying for someone to put a dual-gain ADC audio system into a camera, with 32bit float audio file support. The preamps can be only half-decent, and it’s still a MEGA benefit to just plain NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CLIPPING. It’s like RAW recording for audio. If it can be put in tiny body packs, it sure as heck can be implemented in a camera body.

22 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wait till you see how much they love Atomos? I'm going to be tied up with HDMI cables forever it seems (for ProRes or RAW)

yep. They’re gonna lose me too if they keep it up with the external recorder crap. The AF is lame enough that I may as well get a better camera without it, it’s the same difference. Those are the two things they NEED to remedy this iteration: real AF and internal Raw.

ND would be nice but not critical.

The body shape is just... disgusting (and that’s coming from someone who owns and uses a P4K). They should just make the screen AND EVF each a $500 extra, and reshape the body into something more like RED/Kinefinity/ZCam/BGH1.

What, they’re gonna repackage Sony sensors? Good luck competing with Sony or Panny then 😂

On 4/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, androidlad said:

The sensor is capable of 3 x 3 pixel-binned 3882 x 2912 at 30fps from full width and height of the sensor. Fujifilm simply did not implement this. Also it does not sound as enticing as "over-sampled 4K" in marketing.

Also because of the 3 x 3 pixel-binning, the image will be very soft.

Define “very soft,” because I’ve seen my stuff on theater screens which have only ever been 2K, and it looked fantastic. 3883X2912 is very comfortably over sampled if delivering a 4096X1716 DCP, even if it’s “soft.”

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You have an anamorphic that covers open gate medium format?!

Yeah, I have several. I have a Kowa Anamorphic-35 1.75X (a variant of what most call an “Inflight”,) which, while for 35mm gate size, is easily usable on MF (considering everyone and their mother uses 16mm gate scopes like the 16-H on full frame cameras without issue.) I also have plans to modify my B&L CinemaScope Attachment II, which is natively for projecting 70mm prints, and has an absolutely ginormous rear element. 

I honestly don’t care how much my rig weighs, or how big it ends up being. I’m gearing up to shoot narrative fiction, not a YouTube vlog. I’m after unique, immersive and impactful images that feel at home on a theater screen, that create their own world on the screen.

I love Nolan’s work on 70mm, especially Dunkirk and Interstellar. The Alexa 65 has also shot several films which really leverage the larger sensor to achieve a unique look: Bohemian Rhapsody, The Revenant, Rogue One...

I’m not saying smaller sensors can’t look great on the big screen, but a really big sensor leveraged the right way can’t help but look like it belongs on the big screen.

If prices drop on the S1H, I’ll very likely end up with that body, I’m just a bit bummed with Fuji (or perhaps Sony is imposing  limitations on the sensor,) because I REALLY like Fuji. I like their physical design philosophy, their color science, and their overall proclivity towards a “left-field” approach (like leapfrogging Full Frame straight from APSC to MF.)

I’m perfectly happy to wait out the market with my GH5S and Pocket 4K, they’re a great duo for getting the job done on contract work... but they’re not what I’m after from a personal creative perspective.

I can’t imagine Sony being very afraid considering they make the sensor.

I’m a broken record at this point but the big sensor feels wasted when there’s no open gate video mode. If it had that, I’d be all over it at $6K. Unfortunately the S1H is still a much smarter buy in the LF video arena.

Not sure how I missed this thread... I have one! Currently doing a rehousing project to use it on my 16mm camera at 18/24/50/70mm set.

Wow, this sounds way less oppressive than Adobe subscription plan! I’ll have to look into it!

I’m kinda with Gerald on this one. If it was a grand or so cheaper, I think this would be a very different discussion, but as it sits, it’s in a pretty tough bracket, where (IMO) being a bit out of left field in size and shape don’t set it apart enough to ignore technical deficiencies versus the other options. 
 

I hope they’re still building this platform in 5 years, because at that juncture, I think we’ll be looking at a very different playing field, where even the “alternative” brand offerings will have more solid feature sets. I’m absolutely in love with their size/shape/styling. If either of these had an open gate video mode, I’d already own one just on principle. 
 

Blackmagic REALLY needs to take notice with their “pocket” cameras. That 6K Pro literally made me instantly say “oh.... oh no.” Because it made it abundantly clear that BM thinks their pocket body is still an appropriate design. 
 

I want to like the FP/L really bad, but I just can’t quite bring myself to jump on board when it’s knocking on the door of buying something like the S1H.

Please have an open gate raw mode!

My GH5S is free-99 because it’s the camera I already own

AYYY

But seriously, most every camera in the last 5 years looks pretty dang good. 

19 hours ago, stephen said:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicraw

Blackmagic BRAW

Open Standard and Free to Download
Cross platform and license free!

For Panasonic and others Blackmagic is a competitor in camera business, so they prefer to use their own codecs internally. I doubt any Japanese camera brand will ever put BRAW inside their cameras. They didn't put ProRes codec too. Which is a pity because BRAW is very good codec and integrate so well with Resolve. And only Nikon and Sigma allow use of  Blackmagic external recorders.  Panasonic and Sony don't. Again for business reasons. 

It's another story if those buisness reasons are valid or not.

This is a free and open SDK only for cross-platform decoding as far as I can tell, not for in-camera encoding. Sure, they’ve made it free and open for 3rd party developers to implement it in their software, but I don’t get the sense it’s open-use for cameras. 

There may still be other reasons Japan wouldn’t use it as you’ve mentioned, but then they’re each going to end up with their own “RED Patent Workaround” RAW codec. 

I wish Blackmagic would work out a way to convert other RAW format footage in post into BRAW (ProRes, CDNG, etc.) because it edits so smooth and stores permanently at reasonable file sizes. 

Pretty much everyone is using Sony sensors, yeah? (Canon excluded). So it’s more about HOW WELL they utilize and package the sensor than the sensor itself.

Let’s be honest, the S1H (AF excluded,) whoops most all other offerings. It’s about the closest a hybrid could ever be expected to get to a cine camera. I think it woke the Sony beast, and they realized that gatekeeping small bits of sensor tech is not a guaranteed safeguard against other companies making better cameras. It’s probably why Sony is handing out S-Cinetone and perfecting their AF (still no open gate video though.)
 

For me, at least, the S2H will be the decisive camera. Either it will have reliable AF and therefore be the camera to get, or it will come out with minor upgrades, and S1H prices will at least drop enough to make the S1H a no-brainer upgrade.

More importantly, a large coalition of camera manufacturers need to band together and challenge that idiotic RED raw garbage. I simply cannot understand why Blackmagic Design doesn’t fully open up their BRAW codec to any camera manufacturer that wants it for internal recording. If they did there’s no doubt in my mind it would swiftly overtake ProRes Raw as the new de-facto compressed raw codec, simultaneously rocketing Resolve to the top spot as an NLE. It might hurt sales of BM cameras in the short term, but that would be a small price to pay, and it also eliminates the idiotic Atmos monitor/recorder setups plaguing the market segment currently.

Im sure Nikon will utilize the sensor admirably, but it’s “more of the same” in the segment can only last so long before some player finds a way to break loose.