Andrew Reid

Promoted to front page. http://www.eoshd.com/content/10507/it-lives-5-year-old-350-canon-50d-becomes-raw-cinema-monster

Above: "50D C" Avoid the inevitable price rises and buy your 50D now on eBay It seems the 50D is the best Super 35mm DSLR for raw video from Canon. The sensor resolves very clean highly detailed raw video with hardly any moire or aliasing, at a higher quality than the Rebel lines does. [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10507/it-lives-5-year-old-350-canon-50d-becomes-raw-cinema-monster]Read the full article here[/url]

This is nothing short of a miracle. ISO... 400?   1280x960 for anamorphic will be great, so you're getting nearly 1080 lines still, despite no 1920x1080. Impressive. 50D lives again!

Oh dear.

The response by TC says it all I think. Superb myth busting there. You're a credit to the forum.   For me there is no defending the C500's external recording requirements, and the pros I know who have shot with it say the same. External recorders are a PITA. It's a complete scandal that the C500 doesn't do raw internally like a $3000 DSLR or a $1000 Pocket Cinema Camera. Dumping uncompressed DNG raw to a SSD is trivial stuff. Canon chose to go for maximum margin, minimal design changes to the camera, maximum profit for their partners making the external recorders. One of them (I forget who) was even charging something like $4000 for the firmware required to make it accept the C500's raw output!! How do any of them think this kind of thing is going to wash in today's ultra competitive camera market?   Again it is a shame Canon took the beancounter route for the C500 as it could have been superb. For me there's no reason why they couldn't have added compressed DNG and a SSD slot, sold it for the same price as the C300 and then they would have had a worthy competitor to Sony. As it is the C500 is not competing.   I hope for your sake peederj you realise that your C100 + Ninja has a shelf life of about 1 year and huge potential for deprecation in price. It is already comfortably outgunned on image quality by raw on the 5D Mark III. I know you will confront this argument by saying the ergonomics are great, but I'm not talking about ergonomics I'm talking about the image. An external recorder is poor for ergonomics anyway - that's one of the things (spidery arm, HDMI cable) that pros were running away from DSLRs to avoid!   So your honest advice to people on this forum is to upgrade their 550D to the C100 and everything in-between is nonsense... Seriously are you a Canon plant? Just look at your own logic. Is the following nonsense? -   Blackmagic Production Camera - 4K and global shutter, free copy of RESOLVE 10 5D Mark III raw recording from full frame sensor internally to CF card - show me a competitor to that! FS100 and Speed Booster - incredible low light performance and flexibility with the lens mount plus 1080/60p Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera - ProRes internally for $999! Form factor a GF1. What's not to like? GH3 - 1080/60p at 50Mbit, 24p at 72Mbit ALL-I - does your C100 do that for $6000? No Not to mention STILLS on 5D3 and GH3 Blackmagic MFT 2.5K camera - beautifully cinematic and Speed Booster compatible KineRaw mini (2K raw for $3k)   You have to be practically blind, deaf and dumb to dismiss all that as 'nonsense'.

Sony hack was produced, but developer is no longer active and progress stalled a year ago.   http://www.eoshd.com/comments/forum/17-nex-hack/

Raw is the 'raw data' from the sensor. The sensor captures light, translates it into analogue data then to digital. In order to create an image that digital data must be debayered and processed. Usually this would be done on the camera, but DSLRs don't have as powerful processors as a desktop computer, and need to process the data in real-time at 24fps or even 60fps.   Also when raw image data is compressed into a video file, or a JPEG still, it gets baked. It is like cooking a stake. It isn't raw any more :)   With raw video you do your cooking later, with all the flexibility to cook the original image in post. You can change and grade the image far more than you can when the camera has already cooked it for you in-camera, and served up a much less tasty dish.   The camera is a bad chef.

Peederj is a C100 owner.

  Absolutely true.   There are too many people with their eye on the billions of dollars rather than the millions.   If they start losing billions instead of gaining millions you'll know who to blame.

No demand for image quality? Hmm. Think it though and get back to me.

  Is it really 0.01% though?   Stills photographers are pretty interested in raw I'd say...

I honestly don't think their marketing bosses even know what a follow focus is.   BTW 50D has similar video mode as 5D Mark II, but disabled in firmware.

It's funny that we could have had raw video on DSLRs in 2008.   You have to wonder - do Canon want to make money or not!?

Needless to say I don't recommend Dropbox!   I have fixed the links, thanks for the heads-up.   Please reload the page and try again.

Any samples on Vimeo from the 50D? Does it sample the sensor cleanly with no moire or aliasing?   Does look like a great deal.   Don't tell ebay sellers!!

Without the JPEG preview, the problem appears to be that the raw data / EXIF is still stored in a subfile within the DNG, not like Cinema DNG where there's no subfile.   Does anyone know how to re-jig the DNG file so that it perfectly resembles a Cinema DNG file?   Cinema DNG is the answer. No preview, no subfile crap.

  Mainly researching Resolve at the moment and getting the DNGs to open in it. Rudi at Slashcam has found info that the PATA to SATA adapter slows down the PATA transfer rate, so it doesn't look like that is going to work for CF card slot to SSD unfortunately.   However there are recently announced memory chips designed for low power consumption / small CF cards, which are based on SSD technology and offer close to the 167MB/s write speed limit of UDMA 7.   I think better CF cards are on the horizon. 256GB at least, and 150Mb/s write speed.

Image by Daniel Schweinerr (5D Mark III SSD attachment research) Raw video recording on the 5D Mark III has been met with an overwhelming reception from users and a fantastic reception from most pros. Some are more guarded as they think their camera will blow up. What are the facts? [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10494/magic-lantern-5d-mark-iii-raw-video-and-camera-reliability]Read the full article here[/url]

  With a electronic rolling shutter, you will get strobe in your electric lights at high shutter speeds. So it isn't just the strobe from frame to frame and lack of motion blur that is the problem with high shutter speeds and an electronic shutter.   You will get jello in your stills with fast movement of course.   Still better to have a mechanical shutter or global shutter for stills.   Aesthetics are the least of the problem but it does pose an awkward dilemma. Sometimes you can get a sharp image at 1/50, but if you're doing handheld work stills will need at least 1/100, and that hurts the look of your video especially handheld.   4K global shutter stills from the BMCC will be interesting but breaking the 180 degree shutter rule still necessary for many kinds of stills.

  Here's my research... Resolve is taking the reduced-resolution image metadata for the Magic Lantern DNGs.   Cinema DNG has different EXIF data to stills standard DNG. For a start no reduced res image EXIF.   Resolve seems only designed to read the Cinema DNG EXIF data.   Since DNG and Cinema DNG are practically the same format aside from metadata, if they make the metadata Cinema DNG standard in Raw2DNG I think that might fix the problem.

The look isn't applied when you convert from raw to DNG, it is applied in your grading workflow, be it with Adobe Camera Raw controls (After Effects) or in Resolve.   The new Windows app looks good. A LOT of development to come on the workflow front.   Today Andrew Wonder's team and myself included are trying to get Resolve to eat the DNG files. Same issue right now as the Nikon 1 NEF burst mode stills converted to DNG. They don't work. Metadata isn't right and they're not Cinema DNG files.

It is a very low starting point to be judging raw quality from.   720p streaming on Vimeo, not even a download option!   Would rather see a direct head to head comparison of the 5D2 and 5D3 raw, because with raw there are too many user variables. It comes mainly to grading as to what kind of characteristic you're getting.   For me so far the 5D3's sensor looks the best, but I'm willing to be convinced by the 5D2 if I see anything that is genuinely the result of the sensor and not the user & workflow.   So far I haven't. Just a lot of aliasing and false detail, which in some ways makes the image pop.... But no thanks. I'd rather sharpen the 5D3's raw in post if I wanted this kind of pop and sharp image, than have unstable detail.

  A lot of bullshit spoken about Blackmagic there. Internal battery was an extra feature. It works as a UPS / backup power. BMCC uses an external battery as the main power source, like the Epic. Nobody complains the Epic has no internal battery like an iPhone. This is a consumer mindset. Try a filmmaking one.   If you think the dynamic range is 'disappointing in practice' on the BMCC, I can only assume you've never used one, and have picked up some quote from somewhere about usable DR being less than 13 stops. The BMCC excels at dynamic range. Vincent Laforet compared it to a 1D X raw still.   So their earlier attempts were crude? Dropped frames and moire all they had to offer? Really?   You are annoying.

  14bit to 12bit makes a lot of sense to me. I hope they find a way to do it.   14bit to 10bit I think would be trickier - wouldn't you have to remap the dynamic range to avoid clipping?

  Was the fix for this made public? Just curious to know what caused it, whether it was in the sensor readout or in the debayering (Raw2DNG). Cheers