Andrew Reid

I think I would prefer the dynamic range, 12bit lossless raw and 1 2/3 speedbooster over 100Mb 4:2:0 4k. But not having played with the GH4 (lucky you  :) ) I can't say for sure.

 

You see I prefer not to have that.

 

I'm happy to trade 1 stop dynamic range for some levels and an OLED screen / EVF so I can expose properly in the first place.

 

I'd trade 1080p raw for 4K 8bit, because of the more manageable file sizes, especially long term for archival of the master files. 4K on the GH4 grades extremely well as I showed in some of my production diary posts.

 

I still love colour in raw but again I am happy with colour on the GH4, and it makes for very smooth 10bit 2K 444.

 

1 and 2/3rd Speed Booster is nice on the Pocket but I would trade that 2/3rd of an extra stop for the better low light performance in the GH4 from the sensor.

 

Same goes for BMCC 2.5K MFT.

 

I am not all of a sudden a Blackmagic hater but I think the Ursa is not an appealing direction as far as I am concerned and I think the A7S and GH4 have more features as well as images which are a huge step up to what we had before from mirrorless cameras.

Since I have used the GH4 I wonder when I pick up my Pocket camera why I am not just shooting with the GH4 instead.

 

I didn't get the feeling with the GH3 because the image just wasn't as nice, but now...

 

Especially with 10bit 4:2:2 output and 4K it is nicer.

It can't do 4K in APS-C crop mode.

The integration of all the rig stuff you might use on a BMCC is a good idea on the Ursa but I think you are swapping one practicality mess for another.

 

The weight makes it impractical for a ton of stuff. How many times have we heard people sing praises of lighter cameras like the 5D or EPIC because it makes rigging lighter. Lots of stuff is shot form 3 axis gimbals and MoVi is pretty groundbreaking. I'd rather have that freedom of shot getting, than having to lug around 10kg on sticks like some nostalgic throwback to the film days.

 

Drones are great too... GH4 can go on one. This can't.

 

With the GH4 you can strip it down or build it up and buy 3, keeping each on set in a different configuration depending on the shot you need to get. Rather have 3 of those bespoke rigs than one big heavy Ursa that is only suitable for half the shots I need to do.

 

So much great work has been shot on location with the smaller cameras, without a large crew. I have tried shooting in a small crew with a heavy camera - the Kineraw S35 was very heavy - I hated every second of it. I was seeing shots and angles all over the place and the camera just wasn't nimble enough to go there quick enough.

 

Fact is big heavy cameras slow you down.

 

I am all for getting rid of the stupid spidery arms and bits hanging of DSLRs and BMCCs.

 

But this is wrong way to go about it.

 

All this time, effort and money - some of it ours - spent on two new cameras rather than updating the BMCC form factor to something much more usable. Like a Mini Ursa. It's a tragedy.

 

Just give us a BMCC in a small but integrated and capable cinema camera, that's all I want!

there is a mid price range of productions that will jump on this like music videos

 

Record companies have slashed video budgets this past 10 years as record sales have dropped , but you could buy this camera outright with the budget of one job these days, yet these productions would not buy outright an Alexa or Eric they just rent them.

 

Yes but look at what these guys are using already... C100, C300 and rental of Arri or Red.

 

What does the Ursa do that these don't?

 

If it has the same sensor as the Production Camera it will be unusable on a music video shoot because you can't point it directly at lights or flare up the lens. Black holes!

The DSLR form factor is hideous for anything but taking snippy-snap pictures.  They became useful for more than that despite their terrible design with respect to motion pictures.  They spawned new products designed to work around the faults of using a square peg in a round hole.  The previous BMD cameras were no worse in this respect and better in others but definitely no worse.

 

It depends on the DSLR.

 

DSLR as in 1D C - horrible to use for motion.

 

DSLR as in mirrorless camera / GH3 - actually pretty good.

 

I think the GH4 has come a long way ergonomically.

 

Peaking, OLED monitor, very high res EVF, CineLikeD, pedestal, luma settings, zebra, large battery, weather sealed, stronger magnesium alloy body, video optimised live view and video info display modes...

 

I don't agree with lumping in all the DSLRs into the same boat when it comes to ergonomics for motion.

but some jobs / projects / companies need this type of camera

 

I hope this is the start of an evolution of Black Magic cameras thay follow this style as it has a proven pedegree in film and broadcast

 

The jobs and projects that need Ursa already have Alexa or F55.

 

Surely productions that the Ursa is aimed at consider $6k as small. If they have the budget for a crew and all the other stuff necessary to operate the Ursa, then surely they can use an F55 or an Alexa?

 

The beauty of Blackmagic so far, for me, has been the high image quality for low prices in small boxes.

 

Very artistic tools.

 

The Ursa is more a workhorse in search of work.

Was this shot at 4k then down sampled or shot at 1080 on the gh4?

Also, the copy link still isnt working, it would be awesome to get that working.

 

Shot at 4K and dropped onto a 1080p timeline, scaled 50% in Premiere.

 

Which copy link is broken? Let me know and I'll have a look.

Did Day 5 post just stop now that some company had a new 4K camera to show off? Its been 2 days now, time to see it. 

 

Frank has shot a ton of nice slow-mo stuff and I want to wait to see if any of it can be included on Day 5's diary because some of it is work for other clients and he has to get permission.

 

Also NAB has started and I need to focus on that, as well as finishing my A7/A7R/A7S lenses book.

 

So Day 5 will come later, kind of more logical that way rather than rushing something out that isn't ready :)

Look I am not saying it doesn't have a place at all or is 100% wrong, I just think it is definitely not for me and not really the form factor anyone who bought the Pocket or BMCC was really looking for.

 

With your own rigging you have tons of flexibility and it can be adapted to a job.

 

With this you are essentially stuck with 10kg of stuff whether you like it or not.

 

For crews and studio based stuff then I can see the purpose of it.

 

What about being nimble though?

 

It's really important.

thats what real cameras look like , they are square , boxy and sit on your shoulder,  all 16mm film cameras I ever used where like that, Aaton and Arri

 

'>

 

for me Im quite excited about this camera it has good form factor and on paper loooks great

 

OK glad you mention the shoulder, because I have no idea how URSA is supposed to go on there...

 

The 10" flip screen is way too big to be used on the shoulder. It would be smack right in front of your face. So it is necessary to close the screen... then that blocks the control interface and 2nd screen, along with a bunch of physical buttons.

 

Not ideal.

 

OK it does have the saving grace of the right hand side panel and good for a second camera op whilst the shooter concentrates on getting the shot with an offset external EVF on the left.

 

I thought the point was you didn't have to add any bits?

This is a lot more than a Sony F55. This is more like Alexa territory. Guess it suits their market - broadcast, TV, cinema - but I am quite surprised they did not go more aggressive on price to counter Cinema EOS and Sony. ETA is not till Q4 2014.

 

Press release from Panasonic -

does the a7s deliver 1080p at 120fps via HDMI, because the atmos recorder would acually support that, would be awesome

 

720p for 120fps.

Looks like Blackmagic brought these guys aboard...

 

 

 

Funny :) Now add 7.5KG + lenses. 10KG on your shoulder and 10" screen in your face. Ergonomics and Blackmagic don't mix do they?

The Ursa is like Blackmagic have acted on a satire and made it real.

 

It reminds me of that joke ENG box for DSLRs to make them look more 'professional'!

I don't understand the incredible backlash here.  No offense intended, but this piece reads like Andrew did in fact get fired from a job due to not changing the battery or media in a BMCC on time.

 

Blackmagic gets 10x the criticism it derseves and about 1/4 the praise.  Yes, they should have addressed their firmware issues before launching 2 new cameras at NAB.  Yes, their customers are fair to expect support first for their cameras.

 

But put it into perspective people.  You can shoot incredible digital cinema with the three cameras they already had out.  Whether the lack of in-camera card formatting or lack of time code, etc. are flaws that are so big to render the cameras not worth your money/time/etc.-- that's for you to decide.

 

But I can handle the unaddreseds firmware issues in order to get the stunning imaging these cameras provide.  If Blackmagic didn't offer these cameras, how much would you have to pay to get similar quality imaging out of another camera today, or a year ago?

 

Also, if it wasn't for Blackmagic's innovation, I don't think we'd be seeing Sony, Panasonic and others making the moves they are right now.  Their cameras and video cameras would liekly be crippled and less capable.  That's how those compannies make money-- not by taking big risks (like the a7s) that potentially kills off their big money makers (like the FS-100, FS-700, etc.).

 

Quotes like:

 

"Their existing Cinema and Pocket Camera user base is lost. It’s over."

 

"[BM] completely turns its back on [its] existing indie filmmaking user base."

 

"[The] trend is to go smaller and lighter. This goes in complete opposite direction."  (BM has done nothing but buck the trend with their cameras.)

 

"It smacks of greed to go after the production market before you have even satisfied the indie crowd."  (Greed? Just take a look at the Sony/Canon/Nikon financials as well as their business practices-- you might change your mind.)

 

These quotes are not just someone's rather venomous opinion- but they do harm to the very companies and interests we should be looking out for as artists/hobbyists/filmmakers who desire immense quality at a relatively tiny price.

 

Just chill y'all.  Blackmagic shoud've adressed the firmware issues first, but don't overlook the incredible thech they're trying to bring us at very low prices (or declare their effort failed and futile).  Nor should you be taking for granted the innovation they are driving.  (In other words, stop throwing the babay out with the bathwater.)

 

 

T

 

Unless I fired myself, no it didn't.

 

And I'm a big fan of Blackmagic which you'd know if you had read EOSHD for more than 5 seconds.

 

I have done a lot to put Blackmagic in the spotlight. Recently put them in a major print magazine in the UK on every shelf.

 

Don't lecture me on my opinions... I'm entitled to them... and this camera is just not for me.

It's a divisive camera.

 

Probably no sure right or wrongs in this. It will work great for some people and for others not.

 

I still think the trend for cameras in general is to go smaller and lighter though.

 

Look at Red as they went from Red One to Epic. Look at Sony between F3 and F55. Canon between XL1 and C300.

 

Lots and lots of people want the convenience.

 

I just don't see how that iMac screen on the end of a hinge is going to hold up to rough & tumble / rental either.

It looks like the story of 2014 is taking shape in the form of 4K on high end mirrorless cameras. Last year for me it was raw on the 5D Mark III which excited me the most and before that it was the Blackmagic Cinema Camera. This year is more exciting on the tech and creative front than any I can remember.

Let's look at exactly how the 4K shooting GH4 and A7S compare.

Read the full article here

"I think what he is saying is Panasonic actually finishes their low end products before pushing out newer high end products."

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I always thought this place was for the artist? The guy who will jump through hoops to get a beautiful image? The guy who will use a $200 Nikon to get a taste for 4K/Raw/60p?

 

Now, all of a sudden, a couple of firmware glitches (that I also want fixed, but don't live or die by) coupled with the news of them pushing on with a new camera and they are "turning their back on the indie community"?

 

In a perfect world, my £650 cinema camera would show me how much SD card I have left, but I just work out my GB per minute and guesstimate, erring on the cautious.

 

As long as BM keeping giving me huge bangs for bucks, they'll keep getting my bucks... A bit of firmware angst and some new cameras wont change that. They are still firmly the great shining light of the indie community.

 

In a perfect world? How about in the REAL world. We are talking basic functionality. Stuff that can kill you on a shoot and end up losing you your job. If you have a mega expensive unrepeatable shot ready to roll and the camera just cuts in the middle because the card is full without warning, I'd love for you to come back on the EOSHD forum and sing the praises of your £650 cinema camera.

spec wise it ticks all the boxes

super 35mm size sensor 4k and global shutter in a usable body form like an Alexa -

what more do you want

Blackmagic have listened to all the feedback off their other 3 cameras

 

indie film makers will jump all over this - superb!!

 

I honestly don't see it this way mate.

 

Trend is to go smaller and lighter.

 

This goes in complete opposite direction.

 

We already have the same 4K capabilities and likely even same sensor in the Production Camera. Rig a monitor up to that and you have Ursa without the bulk.

 

Also those ProRes HQ 4K files are virtually unmanageable when it comes to archiving footage. Be prepared to delete and compress a lot of master files if working with those. I am already dreading it with the A7S... And will be begging all the recorder manufacturers to come out with some lighter codecs for it.

 

The URSA doesn't suit me as a filmmaker but that's not to say I haven't considered the possibilities and who it WOULD suit.

 

I just don't think it's well conceptualised or designed to be honest. A massive heavy screen on a little hinge? A 7.5kg camera body? No thank you.
 

It smacks of greed to go after the production market before you have even satisfied the indie crowd... who are constantly asking for basic features and updates.

 

I'm afraid I don't be shooting any Blackmagic in 2014. What a shame.

Blackmagic are launching not none, not one but TWO new cameras at NAB 2014. One as you can see packs quite a punch with a quite revolutionary design. The aim of the URSA is to take all the accessories you'd normally rig onto a Blackmagic Cinema Camera and integrate them. That is a sensible idea. However the execution looks to have produced a 7.5KG monster. There's even an HDMI version of the URSA which has no sensor block or lens mount but a cradle on the front for any camera with HDMI output, such as the tiny Sony A7R. That would give you a full frame 4K URSA recording to CFast cards.

However the URSA is aimed at a large crew, large scale productions and in doing so completely turns its back on Blackmagic's existing indie filmmaking user base.

To make matters worse Blackmagic show no sign of any significant firmware update for the 3 existing cameras at NAB, which is what people REALLY wanted them to announce.

Read the full article here

Some more pics here '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

 

Discussion continues on that thread :)

 

This announcement fills me with dread.

I can guarantee this announcement will not please any of Blackmagic's existing user base, unless backed up by some really good news in the form of significant firmware updates for the Cinema, Production and Pocket cameras plus Resolve 11.

The latter is definitely coming and takes Resolve's editing capabilities up a notch.

Read the full article here

Many in same boat as you, simply edit in 4K and deliver as 2K. Many benefits to it.

 

Difference is a click of a button and that is it.