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I was thinking that over when I saw the S9. For me it's a toss up. I wouldn't use either one as a primary video camera, but fwiw I vastly prefer my travel/photo camera to have 10 bit compressed vs full raw, IBIS is quite useful for photography, and the rotating screen is great when you need it. On the other hand, I don't know if I could live without an EVF, and the Sigma at least has one as an accessory. And then there's the S5, which I got used at a fraction of the price of either one of them, and does basically everything I want but in a slightly larger package. It will certainly be a new sensor generation before I change anything.

(Re)updated list: Pros for S9 258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Cold shoe Pros for S5ii EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body Hot shoe for flash photography and XLR adapter Full-sized HDMI Clearly, if anything, the S9 is a true testament to how good the S5ii is in terms of engineering and size. For the form factor and l mount, would you prefer the almost 5 year old Sigma FP or the brand new Panasonic S9? The Sigma is 64g lighter and has a fan, but no IBIS or decent AF.

It's not a release that entices me at all but props to Panasonic for putting recording limits so people at least know how long they can record for. If you're absolutely deadset on releasing a camera that has overheating issues (ugh) the least you can do is be honest about it. Now if only other camera manufacturers did that.... I really don't know what to say about that lense, though. I guess it'll appeal to Street shooters?

Trends come and go. Vista vision film peaked and declined before digital was invented, and now as a size format it's returning. Anamorphic comes and goes and comes back. It's possible that 10 years from now we'll have another super 16 craze, and Arri will build an Alexa with a tiny sensor to fit that need.

As someone who shot exclusively on a 5D3 with magic lantern for ~1.5 years during which I was shooting every week, it is far inferior to most of today's prosumer offerings in every way, including plain image quality. If it's what you have, then yes, a 5D3 with ML produces beautiful images and it will continue to do so. However there is no situation in which I would recommend it as a purchase.

The image from the 5D3 and ML is simply incredible. @mercer swears by it and the images speak for themselves, there is an organic magic to them that is seldom seen regardless of price or form-factor. Apparently it's pretty stable too, no crashes etc. The 5D camera body is excellent but is ageing, and the sensor isn't the best in terms of modern specs, but prices are also very reasonable due to these things. EF glass is also plentiful, cheap, and optically excellent. The lack of stabilisation and the lower DR really suggest that it's a good camera for controlled conditions where DR and lighting ratios are within a manageable range. If you shoot controlled scenes then the 5D with ML certainly would be a good choice for having one camera.

Looks pretty good.... The poor-shooters Alexa 65?

yeh, i understand your point. this is why hollywood pros only use several top brands and never explore (there are exceptions, like shane hulburts). my point is, an amateur who wants to get into the video world, may start an indie short film with 5d3ml, and the camera limitation is almost gone, even facing the big boys like f35 and alexa ev. this is thrilling, even now, not to say in 2015.

personally, i think that 5d3ml makes amateurs on the same ground as hollywood pro dps, even they use alexa ev, f35, varicam 35, etc. 10 years ago, this was the highest standard in videography in terms of cameras. nowadays, there is not much revolution in the camera world. maybe more convenience, cheaper and easier to operate, more portable, something like this. this is why tech savvy people are not interested in camera talk like they were 10 or 15 years ago. to me, now the bottle neck is how to generate content, how to fully utilize my video cams, just like 10 years ago, i had the same feeling when i saw my collections of still cameras and mf lenses. i kind of losing the interest to keep update with the latest video cams and still cams of course.

Do you think that any cinematographer in their right-mind would use a 5D with a hacked firmware on a shoot that's $100,000 a day? Hollywood gets nervous if the camera is anything except an Alexa. If they get nervous about using RED, then you're dreaming that they'd even contemplate using a hacked firmware for anything. You talk as if you're familiar with the industry, but.....

hollywood pros use large format as a differentiator. if they really care so much about the sensor size, in 2015, 5d3ml 1080p full frame was already mature, yet many video pros bashed 5d3ml as unstable, amateur. yet, once alexa showed its lf and alexa65, the american cinematographer journal started to publish a series articles on how wonderful large format is.

Sure, but I recommend trying to be correct where you can. Early in my journey I read a lot on forums and I "learned" all sorts of things that simply weren't true, and it cost me a lot of money. Sure, casual readers of this forum aren't likely to be in the market for an Alexa, but if you're wrong about this then it makes me wonder what else you're saying that isn't correct either. Forums are not a group of people having a discussion amongst ourselves, they are more like a panel discussion where there are many more people that read the threads than who actually post in them. The technicalities of cameras and video are overwhelming enough without sprinkling in random statements that are factually incorrect.

lens compatibility is a valid point here. but they are exceptions, like sigma 18-35 f1.8, canon efs 17-55 f2.8, etc. saying 135 full frame is not significant better than aps-c, whereas, a lot of still photog will be unhappy about this. even in video world, there is difference. i remember that i watched many 5d2 videos on vimeo in 2008-2010, and 7d videos. somehow, 5d2 just feels better than 7d. you have to watch many to get the feeling. in the still world, there are more choices on sensors in addition to sensor size, like ccd vs cmos, kodak vs canikon, etc. even canon 1 series vs lower tiers. in the video world, such differences are not there. to my opinion, video world has fewer options in terms of sensor. video world spends a lot of time on codec, whereas, still world cares about only uncompressed raw, uncompressed jpeg, tiff, etc. probably, the major difference that the video world cares that the still world does not pay any attention is the rolling shutter.

i understand your point here. alexa 65 and alexa large format are equal or larger than 135 full frame. what i was talking was that the alexa classic and its direct followers like alexa ev, alexa 35, amira. especially, the alexa ev was about the same era as 5d3ml. the former is s35, 5d3ml is vista vision. alexa ev/35/amira have not one side win over 5d3ml. the same as f35. alexa 65 has three alexa ev sensors and alexa lf has two ev sensors.

It's also a strange comment to make if you've seen the PR videos of larger format cinema cameras where cinematographer after cinematographer gush about how the larger sensor will make all their dreams come true, and using all the words that forum fanboys use, and making all the mistakes that forum fanboys make around crop factor and DOF and FOV. I used to think that the pros automatically knew more about this stuff, but then I saw behind the curtain and realised that everyone is susceptible to sensor size envy. Since the Alexa LF and mini LF were released, the price of FF vintage primes has gone through the roof, to the point that a decade ago people were practically giving away sets of F1.4 primes and now the average cinematographer struggles to even put together a functional set of the F2.8 versions.

It's absolutely really, really average. I'm not sure that even Panasonic would object to that characterization. I'm not sure if the S5 II sensor was new when that camera was released, but even that model is about 1.5 years old. So this is a budget version of a camera that could hardly be considered cutting edge. Almost everything about the S9 screams that a couple of years ago, someone in Panasonic management asked "People really seem to love that X100 V, what's our answer to it?" And there's nothing wrong with any of that. It's kind of fantastic that there's now a $1,500 full-frame camera capable of 6K (including open gate) which includes PDAF. It could be pretty great with Leica M lenses for now. I'm admittedly not super familiar with the options out there for L mount, but one really hopes that it inspires a bunch of decent small f/2 or f/2.8 FF lenses for the system - and not just a kind of shit 26mm f/8 which will probably be a reminder of the Olympus body cap lenses for M4/3 (and not in a good way).

Here is an interesting take on the s9 and luts btw I really like the shots and color she gets out of any camera. tldr she raves about the high yield of jpeg soc and zero postpro.

Interesting to see how relatively lukewarm the YouTube videos have been about it. Particularly considering that an all expenses paid trip to Japan and an indefinite loan of a camera usually engenders a certain degree of "goodwill" from the "reviewers". For me, that means its either really, really average or they've all suddenly got religion. Which one is your money on ?

I guess my point is that, for whatever reason, these people don't consider it in need of "fixing," it's already how they like it. Maybe the real takeaway is that you and I are just old curmudgeons now lol.

The problem is when you look at the footage 2-30 years down the line or even after just a few hours in some cases. Some of that stuff will be impossible to fix. Hell, how long did it take Sony to come up with OK color science? They had engineers, colorist, and programmers figuring it out. Now, Panasonic wants Joe Blow to figure it out in unlimited lighting situations on a 3 inch screen. It doesn't sound like it's going to end well. Maybe I'm taking this way too seriously; after all, it supposed to be a fun camera. I can only imagine the dad/daughter conversation 30 years from now. Why do the videos look so weird, Dad? Was I ill? No, I put on this super cool blockbuster theme. I was going for the Micheal Bay look. Sorry.

Best update is the LUT features. The actual camera seems like a dud.

It's kind of fascinating how popular bad looking videos are. Lots of people take videos on phones, add snapchat filters on their 5" screen in direct sunlight, post, and people like it.

Finally, I will personally hold Panasonic responsible for effing up millions of hours of footage with Realtime LUTs. You're asking people (often beginners) to judge their footage on a 3 inch screen. What could go wrong. I'm watching footage from these youtubers that looks awful IMO! There's got to be a reason you don't do this in camera.

Updated list: Pros for S9 258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Cold shoe Pros for S5ii EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body Hot shoe for flash photography and XLR adapter The more I think about the S9, the more I think it really has a "it doesn't have an optical low-pass filter" as a feature kind of vibe. Also, I'm truly baffled by the 26mm fixed f8 manual focus "lens" for $200- WTF. What were you thinking, Panasonic?

Based only on specs: Pros for S9 258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Pros for S5ii EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body These are just off the top of my head and there are probably more. The S9 will never have those things, but I bet the S5ii will also pick up the S9's LUT features. That's a HELL OF A LOT for the price of 258g and $300 more. You'd really have to love the looks of the S9 I think (and it does look cool). If the S9 were sub $1000, maybe (for me).