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Panasonic older bodies are good value. New bodies are not. S1R II sells for exactly the same price as Nikon Z8 which has faster and fully stacked sensor. If rumors are true S1 IIE with same sensor as S5 II will be 2800 Euro. Same sensor with very similar specs in the form of Nikon Z5 II sells for 1700 Euro. S1 II supposedly will have the same semi stacked 24Mpx sensor as Nikon Z6 III and will cost 3500 Euro. Nikon Z6 III current price at a local shop is 2000 Euro. I don't think Panasonic will be able to keep these prices. Andrew is right, don't see how new cameras from Panasonic can attract or entice Nikon and Sony users to switch. Maybe some unique features like open gate or anamorphic. For me Nikon becomes more tempting not only because prices are significantly lower for the same sensor and similar specs but because NRaw can be edited directly in Resolve, while ProRes RAW can't. Avoiding transcoding is a significant time saver for me if I want to shoot RAW internally. There are no bad cameras and it's good Lumix cameras have their fans and users.

Truth bomb and for me, it was the Tamron zoom's that swung it. I'm not really a big zoom fan, but the reality is, for my work, I just need them and the lighter and more compact the better and that is exactly what they are. I think for pure stills, then the Sony. For pure video use, then the Lumix. Hybrid, I could make a case for either, but again, for me, it's when the lens question is brought into the equation and that is where it tips heavily for me back to Sony. But then why I am interested in picking up the Sony 50-150mm f2 ASAP because surely that is quite big and quite heavy? Well yes it is, but not stupidly so and if it will allow me to lose a body and a couple of lenses and gain me something else in actually having and using it, then it makes sense. Yep. Also yep. Put an A7iv plus Tamron 28-75 against it, and I suspect very little difference in price on the used market today and as above, I'd give the nod to the Lumix/Sigma as a pure video tool, but as a hybrid or pure stills, then the Sony/Tamron. I think that is what it largely comes down to here, - use case. You could chuck the Nikon Z6iii with the Tamron 28-75 also into the mix and again, I think on pure video capability, the Lumix still gets the nod (mainly if 6k open gate is your thing) but probably pushes the budget up slightly it being a bit newer. Some might include Fuji, but for me that is something a little different. Canon RF I don't think really has the glass and everything seems to be priced higher. That's about the summary of it I fear. Had the cameras been a bit more 'pro' and innovative, then an argument could be made to justify 3.5k, but in this marketplace, I wouldn't drop that kind of money on them. But still waiting to see exactly what they are when launched, but I think we already know and there will be no surprise bombshells. Sadly, because I want to see them do well.

As i'm a freelancer and can discount VAT I buy most of my kit new. Each country and market is different. The Sony A7iv is going for around 1800€ and the Lumix S5ii for around 1300€ on the second hand market here in Spain. That's a decent lens price difference. When I bought the S5ii 2 years ago I got it with the Sigma 28-70 2.8 for 2590€. Discount the VAT and that's hard to compete with in my eyes. I looked at buying Sony but to buy a similar kit (2 cameras, 24-105 f4, 28-70 2.8 and 3 1.8 primes) was double the price.

Each to their own but for me it isn't just about the camera bodies, but the prices of the lenses. There's more affordable lenses and better value money lenses for Sony E-mount, Fuji X and Nikon Z than for L-mount. As for the camera bodies I look only to the real street prices for mint condition used bodies, and occasionally the new price if I cannot afford to wait 5 or 6 weeks for the first used ones <2000 shutter count to come around. Sony can justify their high pricing of the flagship stuff as they are popular and in demand, whereas Panasonic S1R II etc. is not. But if we ignore the a1 II and a9 II for a moment and look at the other Sony bodies especially used, the value for money is actually very good in particular the a7 IV at £1400. The a7r III used in mint condition can be had for as little as £900 or 1000 euro. That's an extremely capable stills camera with very good 4K as a bonus. The OG Sony a9 is also a good deal around £1200, with the stacked sensor, 20fps raw, and oversampled 4K. The ergonomic improvements from the original a7 through to the a7 III and a9 are significant as is colour science improvement. a7 III can be had for well under £1000 today. Looking at the newer stuff Sony a7r V mint condition is £2500 and brand new £3200. Panasonic has a direct competitor with high megapixels and modern video features, of course that's the S1r II. But it is only £200 less new and is in the same body as a lower-end camera, whereas the a7r V has the build quality and design of a flagship camera, if you put it side by side with the original Sony a1 for example you might even say it's higher-end. The value for money in Panasonic's range is in the lower-end stuff. S5, S5 II, S9, and the older Micro Four Thirds stuff like GH6 which can be had for ridiculously low prices now. If you are going to drop £3500 on an S1 II be prepared to lose £1000 immediately as you drive it off the forecourt, and another £1000 in 12 months when it drops to selling for just £1500 second hand like the a7 IV.

I keep coming back to price and value. The Sonys are about 50% more expensive. Whilst the price of the new Lumixes seems a bit high for me at present, I'm sure that within a year the have great offers or bundles on all of the new cameras. That's when i usually pick them up. So far Lumix has offered me unbeatable value. I hope that continues.

This is possibly the single biggest thing where Lumix could score a win and something most were hoping for, if not expecting. My own expectations were an identical body, but otherwise different sensor pairing of ‘S2R’ and ‘S2H’, the latter with internal ND and the former with a larger than 45mp sensor. But we have not got either and no sign of either and realistically, I think no hope of either based on recent and imminent models. Sony are about to pop out a new FX and a new Alpha any time and though I suspect they will not be groundbreaking either, will possibly be the new benchmarks at this 2.5-4k price point. And so much for the FX style body for the new Lumix’s. I’d like to have seen that as that at least would have been something…

Yes the 18-105 works on the FS5, that was the kit lens for the FS5 as I remember.

Hmm the big miss is no internal Nd Filters. If they would have included that it would be a huge success. Looking forward to actual footage though, s1rii def looked better then the s5ii. Might pick up an used r5c(EF ND adapter) or c70 with speedbooster, that way I can have internal ND's.

Welcome to The Cool Club 👍 I wanted the orange one...and then realised that was a Nikon Zf option 🤪

I agree.

In the UK the new S9 body price dropped to £999 at the end of March, and used prices are heading towards £800 (MPB have a couple at £829 at the moment). Just after the recent price drop, I found a red 'used like new' S9 + 18-40mm kit from Amazon for about £1100 and took the plunge (I fancied a non-black camera body for a change). I quite like it overall - feels nice and solid in the hand, and the lack of a grip isn't as much of a problem as I thought it might be. I agree it urgently needs more small lenses - the 18-40 zoom is OK as far as it goes, but everything else Panasonic offers is large and/or expensive in comparison with the body. As a travel zoom the 28-200 makes sense, but new it costs almost as much as the body and used prices are almost as high as there's not many around. Weirdly Panasonic don't offer that as a kit with the S9 - surely it's an obvious kit for the full-frame 'travel cam' market?

The Sony 18-105mm f4 PZ works on the FS& via the camera's zoom rocker, so I guess it will on the FS5 as well.

That was my other dealbreaker. In fact the principal one as I need to shoot a lot in low light and even with OK lighting, my previous camcorder experiences including 1" sensor, was trash. I just could not go back now.

Once I got myself past the lack of pro features including; the build, the lack of any proper weather sealing, the single card slot (couldn't care less personally about the lack of an EVF as I never use one), as a super-light and compact full frame 6k 30p Open Gate camera, it made great sense. Especially on my super-lightweight freestanding monopod. If only I had not left that at a venue 700km away last weekend... I can't remember the exact weight but it's under 1.5kg total, - that is: body, half cage, lens, Rode Micro, super stable freestanding monopod. I can use it statically within seconds, walk away from it quite confidently (unless in a crowd) and use it in gimbal mode at a turn of a pre-programmed dial. For fast paced run & gun work, it's superb and has multiple frame markers for my 'films' and for my socials. The 'pro' features aside, I can't really fault it. And if they are now under 1k, like so much Lumix stuff, I think that is where and when they make most sense. Used S1H's are now ridiculously cheap and I WOULD still shoot with that as my main if they'd just update the firmware to allow me to burn in a LUT.

Yeah, I was actually pretty impressed watching it. Low light wasn't great, but that's to be expected. There's still a lot to like about that camera.

I gather 4K 4:2:2 10bit is something rare at this price point in the videocamera world. Impressive for such a tiny machine with an extremely long lens.

And it should, a full-frame MILC sensor is 20x as large LOL For a 1/2.5-type (inch) sensor it seems really nice, specially the 4K 200mbps codec

All fair points. And the Z8 also supports 8kp60, I think, and probably with similar DR/RS/etc to the R5 or R5 II. My default is to think in terms of RF mount because I have some cameras with it. There are some small native autofocus lenses, FWIW, but everybody ignores them... and not without reason. They're about as interesting as a loaf of bread. I don't hate the 35/1.8 or the 50/1.8, though. The used prices are what's tempted me on multiple occasions. Yes, and using it with my M mount lenses is the specific thing that I find tempting. The body size and shape is very Leica-like and I don't have much desire to spend $6,000 on a Leica body which has specs identical to a Lumix that is half the price which, in turn, has specs identical to a camera I already own (or could buy for $1,800 on the used market). 😅

Yep, same as the old R5 from 2020 with the pixel binned 4K/120p, and the quality is quite decent. The Sony a1 from 2021 has this mode too, and no crop. The Z8 also. A used EOS R5 is now around the 2k mark if you want 4K/120p (and quite a bit else) on a camera that used to have a "fake overheating problem" which Canon "fixed" in inverted commas with panicky face-saving firmware updates. In 2025 uncropped binned 4K/120p at $3500-$3800 is a pretty standard feature. Yeah the R5 II is lovely but the RF mount is an issue for me, I don't have any of the native lenses, they are too big anyway, I sold a lot of my EF stuff as it's also massively heavy, with noisy AF, and in terms of adapters it doesn't have the Leica M mount autofocus adapter I use nearly all the time for stills and some video on the Sony cameras, which is a big pity and there's no way to adapt E-mount lenses to Canon RF unlike with Nikon Z mount. The lack of Sigma full frame ART lenses in RF mount is another hammer blow. Yes the S9 I have a soft spot for, but Panasonic have always been quite good at value for money cameras. That's one of the best bang for your buck which makes the £3500 even more difficult to stomach for the S1 II. It's just a pity how the S9 was marketed and launched, with a bottle cap for a lens in front of a load of people expecting the GH7. It's also a shame how it is selling. The used price is now down to just £950 which indicates very low demand and low sales... It does however mean I may pick one up used again and have some fun with it. Yeah it's no GM1 size wise and build quality feels very cheapo. When you put a lens on it the size makes no sense unless you're using Leica M mount stuff, or one of Panasonic's tiny zooms. Unfortunately their cheap 50mm F1.8 is pretty big... They need a 40mm F2 pancake or something no larger than Nikon's. Somebody at Panasonic needs to explain the logic to me... Of small camera, large lenses. It seems like there's no point having an S9 without small fast prime lenses to go with it.

Josh Sattin has done his review/tests of the R50V. The biggest revelation for me was that the cam did indeed overheat when used in the sun (reportedly around 85 degrees) and lasted 48 mins before shutting down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx_q36Cyqgg

And not to belabor the R5 II, but... the R5 II can also do 4kp120 in some sort of line skipped or pixel binned full sensor width mode. And for video, it can do 8kp60 raw internally with 15.5ms readout, great dynamic range, and nice colors SOOC. It's not a perfect camera and specs aren't everything, but outside of people who are already invested in L mount, it's still hard to know which users are going to run out and buy the S1 II, just based on what specs I've seen so far. Sure, the S9 could absolutely be better! But at least Panasonic went out for a segment that really didn't include a lot of cameras and where there's demand. Tiny full frame 6K camera with a nice sensor for $1,400 brand new? Fantastic. And form factor that looks a lot like a Leica M and can use M mount glass? Also fantastic. I've been really close to buying it a few times and every time, I talk myself out of it by looking at camera size comparisons to my R5 and reminding myself that the S9 isn't so much smaller (and most of what makes the R5 bigger is the EVF which, as you've pointed out, is a really nice thing to have). That'd be even weirder - a brand new $5,000 camera to "compete" with a $3,900 camera that's already 4 years old. Meanwhile, there's a Pyxis 12K out there for about the same price and also available with L mount - which shoots super high quality 8K footage or 4K footage with no crop and without binning. Or a C80 available for only $500 more shooting 6K with triple native ISO, fantastic DR, professional I/O, and internal ND's. That'd be another "who's this camera for?" release.

The single most anything thing with the S5iiX is the 60p Crop, if the new S1ii fixes that, then sign me up for 2 bodies! (32 bit float will be the cherry on top)

It's serious fucking money isn't it? wow.

$5000 if you want the kit lens don't forget 🙂 $3800 and they are not even including ARRI-LOG, it's a separate purchase AFAIK One of the rumours said 4K/120p without a crop, but pixel binned. That would be a neat feature but not a deal-saver. The S5 II body is just such a pudding. You put one next to an a7r V and it feels like a child's camera. I get the S9 too but they still missed a trick there by not making it better. I.e. The one with the EVF and mechanical shutter and new sensor, like everyone else has. The cherry on top of all this failing I bet will be an S1H that costs 5 grand and has no EVF. They'll reposition it as an FX3 competitor, in a new boxy form factor with all the stills features cripple-hammered. So as far as a hybrid camera goes the S1 II might be a better deal. Even though it is really just an S5 III and not a flagship in any way.

Is this your hot take. LOL. The GH2 hacking community has nought to do with this topic and the latest cameras, and as far as I know Mr Kiselev the Bolshevik Leninist did not launch the GH3. I wish you'd go off and do some editing