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1D X has traces of 1D C firmware but Magic Lantern 'will never touch 1D series' as Canon threatens potential hackers with legal trouble

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This stuff about CPUs and graphics cards being differentiated by firmware switches and clocking is hardware related. The chips that don't pass quality control perfectly are put into the under-clocked boards. It is not the same as what Canon is doing here and the prices between different CPUs and graphics boards is minuscule compared to the huge $6000 Canon wants for your 1D C firmware and heat sink.

 

 

This is not true. Some of them probably yes. However, it's a tiny percentage. Rest is just marketing b*shit. If this was true, they wouldn't lock the multiplier because what would be the point?? In the past I used to sell overclocked CPUs (for extra money when I was a student). 95% of CPUs you could overclock to the fastest version.

In case of GPUs it is similar + obviously they cripple consumer cards to protect PRO cards like quadros. 1) Drivers in quadros are superior. they include instructions that are not available in consumer cards improving performance in some instances.

2) Top pro card will have more RAM than top consumer card.

Same principle: slightly better drivers + a little bit more memory == double the price ?

Soo, what is the price difference between pro and consumer?

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...

Same principle: slightly better drivers + a little bit more memory == double the price ?

Soo, what is the price difference between pro and consumer?

 

Except the irony here is NVIDIA pro drivers aren't as good as their consumer drivers.  Not in Windows or Linux.  They have more features but my experience with them is they're quite flaky.  Not as bad as ATI's pro drivers but one of the dirty little secrets about professional, expensive computer stuff (both hardware and software) is that it loves to crash, takes a long time to configure and once you get it functional enough you can actually get work done with it you don't want to ever touch it again for fear it'll stop working.

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...

 

Except the irony here is NVIDIA pro drivers aren't as good as their consumer drivers.  Not in Windows or Linux.  They have more features but my experience with them is they're quite flaky.  Not as bad as ATI's pro drivers but one of the dirty little secrets about professional, expensive computer stuff (both hardware and software) is that it loves to crash, takes a long time to configure and once you get it functional enough you can actually get work done with it you don't want to ever touch it again for fear it'll stop working.

haha lol, I assumed they would be better. don't own any pro cards. Funny stuff.

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[attachment=363:R1060046.JPG]Do you think Canon will be upset looking at my heavily modified/hacked mirrorless M42 mount 5DII ? :D

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Just by repeating it you cannot turn it to truth. There are no laws for that. Have you ever legally agreed to anything at the time of purchasing your cameras ?- anything! Aside from paying for it for sure there are no legal agreement about what you will do with it and it's content.

 

If you go copy it and sell it - or copy it modify it and sell it then you are infringing on copyright laws ( with many holes in them ). If you copy it - improve or degrade it and make it available to others to get it " FREE of charges " and " VOLUNTARILY " while the original item does not exist as an identifiable commercial product you have not infringed any law. Especially when the copy is being used inside an item that was purchased from the same vendor. Use  the free consultation time legal offices provide and learn. Please come back here and apologize for wasting people's time after getting some education.   

 

Stop playing the devil's advocate. It's really wearing off quickly around here. Or at the least put your full name and contact info at the bottom of your postings for potential rewards from the Canon. See, I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt  that your are not on Canon's payroll trolling around here. Let's just hope for that because if you were, you are doing a banged-up job.

 

...  but still doesn't make it legal or give you the right to port one camera's firmware to another camera.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

 

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again an opened hardware comparison of both models would justify Canon's pricing.  whatever add-ons or added controller (chipset) you see on the new board of the 1DC saves Canon from any political gossip.  such as a different cooling design for example.  these supposed justifications for 4K stability or coding comes manufactured from Canon.  if the 1DX is probably short of some new parts (because it's older)  then would you invest in 6k just to hardware modify it and risk Canon's warranty?  where's Canon's disclaimer about this?  hoax bluff

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Stop playing the devil's advocate. It's really wearing off quickly around here. Or at the least put your full name and contact info at the bottom of your postings for potential rewards from the Canon. See, I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt  that your are not on Canon's payroll trolling around here. Let's just hope for that because if you were, you are doing a banged-up job.

 

That was hilarious... yeah you got me! 

Keep bashing Canon and you'll go far around here Mr. OverCranky.

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Do you realise you are defending the indefensible and also voting against your own interests??

 

I'm not voting against anything, I'm speaking my mind, which is a problem around here every time the opinions differ from your own.

 

Having an online community that promotes hacking cameras to "steal" features from higher end cameras without paying for them is what will hurt our community's interests and credibility. As was mentioned by many different people before, that's a common practice with so many different pieces of hardware, but you're biased against Canon as usual and you won't listen.

 

I never said I think the price is right, I've mentioned several times before they should lower the prices on all their C series of cameras to at least half if they want to be taken seriously by the indie community, but that's a different story, and maybe it does show they don't care much about the indie community, and we should just move on, but these rants about missing features are pointless.

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http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eosdigital7/firmware.html and others...

 

You shall not assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or otherwise transfer to any third party, or copy, duplicate, translate or convert to another programming language the Software, except as expressly provided herein. You shall not alter, modify, disassemble, decompile or otherwise reverse engineer the Software and you also shall not have any third party to do so. You shall not modify, remove or delete a copyright notice of Canon contained in the Software.

Except as expressly provided herein, no license or right, express or implied, is hereby conveyed or granted by Canon to you for any intellectual property of Canon.

2. OWNERSHIP AND COPYRIGHT:

The Software is copyrighted and owned by Canon. You agree and acknowledge that Canon transfers neither ownership interest nor intellectual property in the Software to you under this Agreement or otherwise, and that Canon retains all right, title and interest to the Software.

 

 

Just by repeating it you cannot turn it to truth. There are no laws for that. Have you ever legally agreed to anything at the time of purchasing your cameras ?- anything! Aside from paying for it for sure there are no legal agreement about what you will do with it and it's content.

 

If you go copy it and sell it - or copy it modify it and sell it then you are infringing on copyright laws ( with many holes in them ). If you copy it - improve or degrade it and make it available to others to get it " FREE of charges " and " VOLUNTARILY " while the original item does not exist as an identifiable commercial product you have not infringed any law. Especially when the copy is being used inside an item that was purchased from the same vendor. Use  the free consultation time legal offices provide and learn.

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There are no laws for that. Have you ever legally agreed to anything at the time of purchasing your cameras ?- anything! Aside from paying for it for sure there are no legal agreement about what you will do with it and it's content.

 

Can't you understand that's not the point here? The point is not what you do with the camera you buy, it's the features you're stealing from a camera you DIDN'T buy.

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Wow, even Black Magic have some license agreement against modifying, reverse engineering, decompiling,etc... for the Cinema Camera :

 

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/register/download/?sid=27541&pid=27542&fid=33840&did=33847&os=win&alt=true&sdk=false&beta=false&archived=false

 

License.rtf inside the installer

 

6. The Software is owned by Blackmagic Design or its suppliers. Title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in and to the Software shall remain in Blackmagic Design and/or its suppliers. You agree to abide by the copyright law and all other applicable laws of the Australia, United States and other applicable jurisdictions. You acknowledge that the Software in source code form remains a confidential trade secret of Blackmagic Design and/or its suppliers. You may not, permit unlicensed persons to use your copy of the Software, modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the Software, copy the Software, rent or lease, rights to the Software, or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Software.
 

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http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eosdigital7/firmware.html and others...

 

You shall not assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or otherwise transfer to any third party, or copy, duplicate, translate or convert to another programming language the Software, except as expressly provided herein. You shall not alter, modify, disassemble, decompile or otherwise reverse engineer the Software and you also shall not have any third party to do so. You shall not modify, remove or delete a copyright notice of Canon contained in the Software.

Except as expressly provided herein, no license or right, express or implied, is hereby conveyed or granted by Canon to you for any intellectual property of Canon.

2. OWNERSHIP AND COPYRIGHT:

The Software is copyrighted and owned by Canon. You agree and acknowledge that Canon transfers neither ownership interest nor intellectual property in the Software to you under this Agreement or otherwise, and that Canon retains all right, title and interest to the Software.

 

... I never  signed or hereby acknowledged to any of the above at the time of purchasing any of Canon or other cameras. Non of this is enforceable nationally or internationally because they are not signed and acknowledged by purchasers at the time of purchase. Also every camera sales personal will be considered accessory and called in for witnessing. I'm sure you can imagine the mess. It is not enforceable.

If it was nobody could use third party parts in their cars or high-end electronics and for sure ML could've been taken down long ago.  

Almost every car ( automobile ) come with similar mombo-jombo but they don't force you to sign those pages ( some of those forms even don't have the place for signature or name of purchaser. 

 

Something that you, Bruno the Canon man and a few overzealous sales reps don't get is the fact that ML is bringing extra sales to the brand. Think about it for a minute or two. Canon is not going to shoot themselves in the foot or the wallet. 

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Interesting discussion.   The 1DX is not an inexpensive camera.  Will there be someone willing to hack it?  Is it even possible?  I used to get really pumped about Magic Lantern and hoped for them to achieve more and more.  They did achieve a lot.  I was hoping for true 1080p, hoping for 422 mjpeg, etc. Has it occurred?  Nope.   It isn't as easy as I thought or as people thought.  Read thru the Magic Lantern forum and you'll see this.  Magic Lantern has said to the public, they'll be staying away from the 1DX.   I think most know the answer as to whether any possible "hacked" upgrade will occur to the 1DX.  That is the reality. 

 

PS.  Did anyone see the 4K 24p GoPro hack with the interchangeable lens?  How about the Red Scarlet to the Epic hack?  I didn't either. 

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... I never signed or hereby acknowledged to any of the above at the time of purchasing any of Canon or other cameras. Non of this is enforceable nationally or internationally because they are not signed and acknowledged by purchasers at the time of purchase.


Seriously? I never signed a contract for any piece of software I bought, but the copyright laws still apply, that's nonsense.

http://www.informationweek.com/software/enterprise-applications/open-source-copyrights-legally-enforceab/210004154?nomobile=1

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That was hilarious... yeah you got me! 

Keep bashing Canon and you'll go far around here Mr. OverCranky.

Sorry kiddo ! I didn't realize I was having a serious dialog with a kindergartener. My apologies to you and your Mom.

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Seriously? I never signed a contract for any piece of software I bought, but the copyright laws still apply, that's nonsense.

http://www.informationweek.com/software/enterprise-applications/open-source-copyrights-legally-enforceab/210004154?nomobile=1

 

This is the biggest misunderstanding. These " notes " passed onto consumers are not LAWs. They try to be for sure but  even the baddest legal teams of these corporations cannot take a consumer to any national or international court with them. There is something reminding people about copyright laws there is completely something else attaching a case to it and then successfully arguing in a court.

Even if they could they wouldn't. Consumers will turn their backs on them. From your local sales person that sold the camera all the way to head of marketing departments in Canon will start a riot on the company also.

Again - these hacks and performance enhancements are good for sales. There has been rumors about possibilities of hack codes being leaked by the OEM manufacturers to advance their cameras ahead of the competitions in the market. A bit far fetch but you get the picture. 

In the case of BMCC that Chauffeurdevan in #61 brings in to the discussion, by digitally agreeing with the software agreements you are complying with the terms and conditions of the case with a digital signature. That is different, and still very taxing to the BlackMagic to bring to the court if case lost sales. I'm sure BlackMagic will smile at unprojected sales coming in as the result of hacked firmware instead.

 

You know - as you said it many times, you go ahead and buy it as you deserve it. Many people wont.  No matter from what vantage point I look at it, it looks like Canon are going through some major troubled waters and captain and the crew are in panic state. This ship is going down and that's sad because I was a Canon fan. 

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Can't you understand that's not the point here? The point is not what you do with the camera you buy, it's the features you're stealing from a camera you DIDN'T buy.

 

This is the point you don't get : Those features already exist in the camera I paid for - I just activate them. ( In the case of 1Dx vs 1DC this is just theory until proven )

GH2 is an inferior camera to all Canon DSLRs in OEM format but the high bitrate is crippled as it is. If I mod the thing to work better for me then good on me. In fact by public opinion hacked GH2s surpass all Canon DSLRs unless ML installed on them. Many Pro shooters bought 5D II relying on ML. I'm not sure if you are doing Canon a favour here.

 

And all n all this could be waste of time if Andrew's theory about the hardware in these cameras turn to be wrong.

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fbi_warning.jpg

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:D

 

MaXINE! Please make a thread talking about how and what you did here TO MAKE A MIRRORLESS 5d and what sucesses and issues you had! This hacked up 5D is far more indie interesting than the "let's take the piss" 1DC...

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I'm not sure if you are doing Canon a favour here.


Never tried to, you just had to come up with ridiculous arguments and accusations to weaken my opinion, which is just what it is, you're free to disagree, no need to question my education or bring my mom to the discussion though. It does say a lot though...

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Thanks for taking a closer look at Canons fingers. I would not say that other companies on all fields and in all areas do the same, but once i find out, i stop buying products by those companies.

 

Of course there is a mass who does not give a donkeys about a companies ethics etc, but i think more and more people get aware of such politics, thats why we need investigative journalism. 

 

I am through with Canon for now...

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What Canon are doing here makes no business sense to me. They make a healthy margin on the 1D X as it is at over $6k, imagine the sales leap had they enabled 4K video on it.

 

So they are going to sell how many 1D C's? 2000 of them? Mostly in one country. Does that seem like a good reason to piss off the 40,000 who would have bought a 1D X for 4K video? Does that seem like a good business decision, really?

 

Aside from the morally repugnant profiteering and loss of reputation such a cynical product results in for Canon, they have had to cripple their core business to satisfy this tiny niche of Hollywood cameras. We all know the video on the 5D and 1D X is not as good as it should be. It is just as well their competition is so utterly clueless and weak. Nikon anyone? Sony? Red have had 4K cameras out for what seems like a whole era and the Japanese are only just now bringing cameras out.

 

Essentially when you can produce a camera that does 4K and make a nice profit on it at $6k, it just shows how weak the competition is when Canon can still be a market leader and DISABLE the entire feature, instead selling it for double the price to a select few. 4K isn't mainstream yet, but when it is Canon won't be able to sell a 4K DSLR for $6000 let alone $12,000.

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So they are going to sell how many 1D C's? 2000 of them? Mostly in one country. Does that seem like a good reason to piss off the 40,000 who would have bought a 1D X for 4K video? Does that seem like a good business decision, really?

 

That was not the discussion and I never disagreed with that. There's loads of products out there that I would love to have for half the price with the companies still being able to make a profit out of it, but the point is they cost what they cost and I can't afford them. They do have their reasons to price them like that, the main one being "because they can".

 

Threatening with or suggesting hacking those cameras as a solution and in our own benefit was my main issue with your post, as it is ethically and legally wrong. I know damn well Canon wouldn't take legal action against independent people hacking their cameras, but they could shut down a site like ML in a heartbeat if they wanted to. ML knows this and reminds its users constantly, they can barely afford a camera body let alone a trial.

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Essentially, these large companies are currently the only ones in a position to mass-produce and sell reliable 4K cameras, and they won't do it cheaply until the hand is forced. Even Red, remember the timing of the Red One price drop, alongside the release of a certain new cinema camera?

 

As with RAW and the like, it's only when the competition is serious that the big boys will bother to compete. It took Sony an age to move into large-sensor video, in comparison. They spend a long time working out how to milk each new phase of development for every penny it's worth.

 

Reliability is very important. I've stuck with an ageing 550D (now worth what, 250 quid?) for ages because it has never, ever failed me in any way, while my two good friends with GH2s have a had all kinds of workaround, tweaks, corrupt files and so on to deal with. I know that isn't everyone's experience, but their experience meant that I stuck with lower resolution rather than deal with buggering about.

 

That's why people will buy Canons like the C500 (footage looks a bit ugly to me so far) and 1DC, because they know how it works already, and that it will work. Personally I have my limits when it comes to piss taking, and won't buy purposely crippled high-end products like the current Canon batch of 420 8-bit cameras. I may as well stick with 550D, or get a 600D and use the new All-I 100mbps patch from Magic Lantern Daily builds along with the Mosaic anti-aliasing filter.

 

If BMD had been able to pump out a ton of their cameras on time straight off, for example, I think we'd be seeing a RAW Sony or Canon sooner, but since they aren't yet competition due to the as-of-yet dire delivery speed, we shall have to wait for a response from bigger and far more risk-averse  manufacturers.

 

Good thing is that with BMD, Digital Bolex, Ikonoskop etc we are seeing more companies create such niche products. hopefully one of such products will appear at a hilariously low price and be simple, functional and reliable, then we can watch the big players do an RIM (Blackberry) and suffer for their stubbornness...

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Look at the posting you made in #57. You said :

 

" That was hilarious... yeah you got me! 

Keep bashing Canon and you'll go far around here Mr. OverCranky. "

 

 

You get what you deserve kiddo. You don't like to get splashed, then don't start a pissing contest.

i just brought the reply to your level of principals. 

 

Never tried to, you just had to come up with ridiculous arguments and accusations to weaken my opinion, which is just what it is, you're free to disagree, no need to question my education or bring my mom to the discussion though. It does say a lot though...

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