The Panasonic S1 II pricing is wrong, and so is the entire product strategy since 2018

[Chrille]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Panasonic are acting even more strange at the moment because they have no pro video camcorders any more. Why not? What happened to the Varicam line? EVA?

I guess they hoped for something like the success of the venice / Burano. And now they are out of the market because of the Venice/ Burano. 

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, Chrille said:

I guess they hoped for something like the success of the venice / Burano. And now they are out of the market because of the Venice/ Burano. 

It does look like they have thrown in the towel.

The precedent for camera companies when they dump their high-end and pro stuff is not good.

They loose the halo effect of these products and the brand takes a battering.

Then they become totally reliant on consumer trends and the dreaded smartphones start pinching their customers, which doesn't happen at the Venice / Burano end of the market 🙂

Panasonic's core camera experience is still really good.

But they need to show more imagination. More varied form factors, higher build quality, better ergonomics and dial feel, use the word Cinema in their hybrid and filmmaking orientated cameras i.e. Cinema Lumix GH8... Get their marketing together, it's a shit show, and really focus on getting a camera together that appeals to proper photographers, not the S9, but something like an OM-1 or GX9 with their best full frame sensor from S1R II.

I sadly don't think they've got the commitment or the resources any more, I think Panasonic have done a restructuring and it has neutered the A/V and camera divisions.

[mtol]

19 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The GH7 could also have evolved with the times into a FX3 / ZR style body. Instead it STILL handles like a STILLS camera.

I do appreciate a viewfinder, though. As it stands an FX3 is hardly usable without rigging, based on screen quality alone.

[Andrew Reid]

Nothing to stop them doing an FX2 as well.

[mtol]

35 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nothing to stop them doing an FX2 as well.

Honestly I hope they go this route.

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nothing to stop them doing an FX2 as well.

They had an FX2-like body design (including a flip-up, multi-angle EVF) 9 years ago in the form of the GX8 - https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx8-review/3

[MurtlandPhoto]

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

They had an FX2-like body design (including a flip-up, multi-angle EVF) 9 years ago in the form of the GX8 - https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx8-review/3

That was my very first thought when I saw the FX2. I loved my GX8 back in the day. Sleeper standout right there.

[Andrew Reid]

13 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

They had an FX2-like body design (including a flip-up, multi-angle EVF) 9 years ago in the form of the GX8 - https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx8-review/3

LOL. I know. We are talking about the lack of a modern full frame L-mount version of the GX8/GX9.

[John Matthews]

15 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

They had an FX2-like body design (including a flip-up, multi-angle EVF) 9 years ago in the form of the GX8 - https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx8-review/3

The GX7 had it too. I had one and loved it. The GX7 Is also had the flip-up screen rather than the flip-out screen of the GX8.

[MrSMW]

I suspect they got cold feet after the BS1H box camera and whatever the other box one was.

See, no one even really remembers their names, or in some cases, that they existed.

LUMIX just seem to have been one of those companies that have focused more on the internal than the external and expect enough respect to come from what it can do, not how it does it or how it goes about it.

Meanwhile, Leica and Sigma within the alliance, have possibly had more focus on the external, the build, the form etc.

Between them, they could build the ultimate camera.

Individually they probably could, but no one ever seems to quite manage it...

The bottom line is we are probably not representative of the bulk of their sales, but I think it's a case of they are not pushing the boat out far enough.

I'm going to have a t-shirt made that reads;

PUSH THE FUCKING BOAT OUT.

OR DIE!

[John Matthews]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

PUSH THE FUCKING BOAT OUT.

OR DIE!

What happens if you know the boat has a hole in it and you know it's going to sink if it's out there? This might be the more realistic situation for Panasonic.

They have the camera, but does it make sense at the price they can make it for (and still make money)? Or, perhaps even more likely, they can make a few of these awesome cameras they've designed, but there are some sort of tooling or production issues that prevent making a lot of them at the right price.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

What happens if you know the boat has a hole in it and you know it's going to sink if it's out there? This might be the more realistic situation for Panasonic

Probably the more likely scenario, but at the same time, even the biggest of companies seem to make the most monumental mistakes.

I guess that the same philosophy I have always had applies and that is just because you are in business, does not mean you are good at business and that can be applied to any size of company from one man band to massive global one and everything in between.

It just takes one single person who has the power to do so to make a wrong decision and...

Personally I think it is conservatism at work as in "we'll go so far, but not all the way" and that "all the way" is just one more step after nine already taken and it makes no senses to me as someone who is all or nothing.

But the camera companies are all as bad as each other and each have their individual flaws.

I just would have thought we were at the point (past the point) where at least one of them would simply cherry pick the pros of each, eliminate the Vons of each and bring something to market that is as flawless as it can be.

These 'flaws' are more niggles than anything now for me. All the major brands offer all the tech I need or will ever need and I could easily and happily make any of them work; Nikon, Canon, Sony, LUMIX, so it comes down to personal choice and budget and there best choice for the latter is almost always the system you are in which for me is LUMIX/L Mount.

The biggest example of conservatism/cost cutting within LUMIX is probably the reuse of the S5 body.

OK, there S5II got an upgrade and the S1II and S1RII further upgrades, but how much more expensive would it have been to go another direction?

Only they and other big manufacturers know but probably more than the bean counters were prepared to allow.

The bottom line is there isn't really anything else I want (certainly nothing I need) but if I could choose just one single thing for my S1RII's it would be the same kind of mech as it already uses, but the screen size, res and brightness of the ZR screen. But that would then require either a larger body or a different type of body so I'm dreaming...

 

[John Matthews]

29 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Probably the more likely scenario, but at the same time, even the biggest of companies seem to make the most monumental mistakes.

I think they're acting either conservatively with a wait-and-see approach. IMO, they're waiting to see how the S1 series sells. Based on that and the market/competition, they'll act or not.

I've been having a hard time getting excited about these newer bodies. Really, it's more about 4k120fps (if anything). I just cannot justify that kind of expense as a hobbyist. RAW isn't for me. I'm much more excited about lenses now, but even with them, they're becoming too similar across brands. I don't know why, but they're also becoming boring. The Chinese lenses seem to be where the more unique looks are coming from.

37 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The bottom line is there isn't really anything else I want (certainly nothing I need) but if I could choose just one single thing for my S1RII's it would be the same kind of mech as it already uses, but the screen size, res and brightness of the ZR screen. But that would then require either a larger body or a different type of body so I'm dreaming...

I have a really hard time thinking that the ZR will be viable on the beach in summer with MF lenses. After the GX800 and S9, even though they can be bright, the EVF is non-negotiable now. Maybe I'm getting old.

[Davide DB]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

I have a really hard time thinking that the ZR will be viable on the beach in summer with MF lenses. After the GX800 and S9, even though they can be bright, the EVF is non-negotiable now. Maybe I'm getting old.

 

Same here.
We are all excited for seeing a small package with all these features at that price. I like seeing these young "creators" publishing all these nice video handheld. But seriously, for travel or vacation do I need a RAW camera and a countless TB of storage with me?
Despite the character, I mostly appreciated the honest Philip Bloom review of this camera.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I'm much more excited about lenses now

Lenses to me are now more important than bodies and have been for some time since camera tech reached a certain point.

The best glass for my needs is all in Sony E Mount…which is a bit of a bummer with LUMIX bodies 😂

Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 is better than Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 which is also good but having had both, I prefer the Tamron.

Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 is relatively compact and light compared with the 70-200 chonkers available in L Mount.

Sony 50-150mm f2 is waaaaaay better than the Tamron 35-150mm f2/2.8 because A. it’s internal zooming and B. it’s constant aperture and C. it is optically better. Never mind the super chonker that is the Samyang 35-150mm f2/2.8, the Tamron’s fugly stepsister.

Then we have the Sony 24-50mm f2.8 G which if paired with the 50-150 would make a superb indoor/outdoor option for my needs.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into a flip…

I’m seriously tempted…

[ArashM]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into a flip…

I’m seriously tempted…

Humm, I thought you were trying to talk yourself into Nikon, now it's back to Sony?

😉

 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, ArashM said:

Humm, I thought you were trying to talk yourself into Nikon, now it's back to Sony?

😉

 

One word: Megadap

[MrSMW]

But seriously, a less than 1 minute calculation says 13k investment vs probably about a 6-7k sale price on my current gear = not happening.

Even if I just went the stills side it would be around 6.5k - 4k, so a 2.5k flip and…actually that might be doable in early 2026 😂

I don’t really want to go back to mixed brand systems but at the start of this year I was using Sony + Nikon for stills and LUMIX for video and I could easily carry on with LUMIX for video as I think it’s still probably my best option for that, but swapping a single S1RII plus 4x primes for a single Z8 plus 2x zooms could work…and it would give me the longer lens option that doesn’t really work for me within L Mount.

For me, the only real weakness in L Mount for me is not having something like the Sony 50-150mm f2 internal zoom as that is pretty much ultimate event lens right there. In fact, unless physics can be defied, I can’t see anything more compact and as fast, being possible, but if Sigma could kindly take up that challenge…