Adolescence (2025) camera and gear - Implications for the industry

[fuzzynormal]

14 hours ago, EduPortas said:

That does not happen if the technical image on the 80 inch TV falls apart.

The irony being that that 80 inch TV has frame interpolation and computational image enhancement engaged on it by default.

Anyone on this forum have people in their lives that bother to adjust their "smart" tvs beyond accessing their channels?  I'm guessing not many.

Home TV sets are now literally built to destroy the original image.

And here are all of us hobbyist technicians trying to maintain the most pristine IQ.  Might be an Exercise in futility.

[EduPortas]

19 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Does it exist a camera whose image technically falls apart nowadays? 😉

For full frame, 6K and various flavors of ProRes that's a very very small number of cameras.

Even more so if the camera AND lens totals around US$10k (the 32mm Cooke lens used for the entire show costs US$4,500 brand-new; the 6K version of the camera US5k)

[eatstoomuchjam]

Well, the 8K sensor for the X9 is generally acknowledged as superior to the 6K one and it's (as far as almost anybody can tell) the same sensor that is used in the Panasonic S1R Mark II, a $3,300 camera.

That camera compares favorably to the EOS R5 without being enormously better.  You can get a used EOS R5 for around $2,000.

Having both an EOS R5 and both versions of the X9 (having bought the 6K and upgraded), I can safely say that the image from the EOS R5 is pretty close to the X9.

Plus if we're talking about shows on Netflix, Chimp Empire (recommended to be by another forum member here) is gorgeous.  That one was shot on the Canon C70.  Someone listed one in the local Facebook buy/sell camera group today for about $3,500.

The Creator was shown on theater screens everywhere.  It was shot on the FX3.  The Sony ZV-E1 which is available used for about $1,700 uses the same sensor.

In a recent short film contest, a film that I shot tied for best cinematography - mine was shot on a combo of Komodo-X and C70.   The one that tied it?  Shot on a Panasonic S5, a camera that is available used for about $800-900.  Even if I cared about awards, I wouldn't be upset about the tie - the other film looked great on the big screen.

So...  I'm not really sure anymore what point you're trying to make about the Ronin here.  Yes, it was used for a Netflix show.  Other high-end prosumer cameras have also been used for Netflix shows before so this isn't really novel.  Nearly every camera on the market right now is superior technically to the Red One M-X (also available for under $2,000 on the used market) - the camera used to shoot films like The Social Network, Ché, and District 9, all of which were shown on cinema screens worldwide.

All of this means it's a great time to be a filmmaker, but that's hardly unique to this one camera. 😃

[MrSMW]

It's so easy to focus on the camera as the single most important element and if some folks wish to believe that's what it's all about, best of luck to them `and their lives within the comments section on YouTube.

It's not the camera. It's not the lens. It's not the grade. It's not the lighting. It's not the budget. It's not the creative talent. It's all of these elements and that is what a camera body is, just one single element, but alone it is nothing.

[Davide DB]

4 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

It's not the camera. It's not the lens. It's not the grade. It's not the lighting. It's not the budget. It's not the creative talent. It's all of these elements and that is what a camera body is, just one single element, but alone it is nothing.

 

[MrSMW]

Jon Snow lives his life on YouTube.

[EduPortas]

22 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

So...  I'm not really sure anymore what point you're trying to make about the Ronin here. 

Unlike the other very good cameras you mentioned the Ronin has the entire FF set-up from the get go: stabilizer, gimbal, remote focusing mechanism for MF lenses, big focusing screen (and AF, of course). ProRes Raw and 4444 XQ.

It's just a more compelling package for the brand agnostic.

[EduPortas]

16 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It's so easy to focus on the camera as the single most important element and if some folks wish to believe that's what it's all about, best of luck to them `and their lives within the comments section on YouTube.

I thought this was a gear forum, but maybe it morphed into something else post-Covid hehe

[eatstoomuchjam]

23 minutes ago, EduPortas said:

Unlike the other very good cameras you mentioned the Ronin has the entire FF set-up from the get go: stabilizer, gimbal, remote focusing mechanism for MF lenses, big focusing screen (and AF, of course). ProRes Raw and 4444 XQ.

That's simply not true.

The focus motor is an additional $270 purchase.  The 6K version of the Ronin 4D also doesn't come able to shoot ProRes RAW or 4444 XQ.  For that, you'll need to add the ProSSD mount ($200) and a 1TB ProSSD ($800).  For most MF lenses, you'd also need to buy a mount other than the one included with the camera - I haven't seen many DJI DL mount to anything else adapters.  A Leica M mount costs $300 new.  Used prices on most of the above are about 2/3 of new cost.

The 8K version of the camera includes the mount and a ProSSD, but (if I remember right) not the motor.

And while almost none of the cameras that I mentioned include ProRes RAW (except the S1R Mark II), a majority of them are capable of shooting raw (many of them in a format that works in Resolve without conversion (additional $80 fee for Raw Convertor license if PRR).  For those that don't, you can buy a used Ninja V or Video Assist 12G for $200-500.

For stabilization, you can add a $400 gimbal - though compared with using the R4D, it will be much more of a pain in the ass.  On the other hand, most of the other cameras can support lenses weighing more than about 1000g which is about all the R4D can support if you want to use the 4th axis.

External 5" screen?  If you don't already have one sitting around, you can get one of equal or better quality to the R4D screen for about $200-300.

Any of those other cameras can also be set up in such a way that they will be small/light/unintrusive.  That's simply not possible with the R4D.  The closest you'll come is the Flex unit which costs $900 and then you'll be in a backpack ($200-300 if you buy the official PGY Tech one) and still carrying a pretty big/obtrusive camera.

The main advantage of the Ronin 4D is the integrated 4th axis which eliminates a lot of footstep motion and helps smooth things out on a car mount, etc.  In my experience, it's better than using an EasyRig with the springy arm or a ReadyRig Nimbus - and can be used with either for even more smoothness.

The second advantage of the R4D is that everything is tightly integrated.  If you get a Gimbal with subject tracking, that'll be on a separate screen and is usually driven by a second camera rather than through the camera's lens.  If you get a DJI Focus Pro or other Lidar-based manual focuser, that'll also be driven through a second camera and another screen.  With the R4D, you can draw a box around a subject and turn on AF and when you start tracking, it will do so uncannily well... about 95% of the time, and randomly lose the subject the other 5%.

It's a great single operator camera - but again, it's far from the device I'd choose as my only camera.  If I could have only one, I'd take something else for sure.  It would be my first choice for my second camera, though... hands down.

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, EduPortas said:

I thought this was a gear forum, but maybe it morphed into something else post-Covid hehe

I am actually in the camp of ‘gear is great’ and love a chat about kit, but just saying that too many focus on the camera and only the camera above all else as in, “if only I had Camera X, I would make it in this industry”.

I’m all for filmmakers large and small to break away from the norms and don’t think kit should be restricted to just the most expensive stuff when some very very ‘low’ end gear has been proven to work just as well and in some cases, has made certain shots possible on the first place.

As already referenced, The Creator being shot on FX3’s and The Batman (for certain scenes) using a lens that can be purchased of eBay for under 100. 

I think the Ronin is such an example but could this show have been made without it?

Yes.

Will the way this show was shot influence others to emulate?

Probably.

Will some of them buy or rent a Ronin as a result?

Probably, but the result was not solely down to a single piece of kit.

[eatstoomuchjam]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Will the way this show was shot influence others to emulate?

Probably.

Will some of them buy or rent a Ronin as a result?

Probably, but the result was not solely down to a single piece of kit.

... and this is part of the problem.  A lot of people will think that they just need to pick up a Ronin and they'll remake Adolescence.  And yet, they won't be working with 3-4 camera ops, an entire lighting crew, huge drone + operator, car crane + operator, multiple sound engineers, etc.

Local film competitions next year should be a little wild.  😅