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Bold

Seeking Info About the B&H Projection Lens

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2 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

OK... don't take it wrong

No worries...I think maybe we’re both talking about two different goals / approaches?  It sounds like you’re seeking a single-focus solution for your Baby H and Sankyoscope?

Whereas my goal was to find ways to make the B&H user-friendly for filmmaking.  When modified according to the information found throughout this thread, you can turn the B&H into a single-focus, close-focus, rack-focus, sharp-focus, lightweight, 2x anamorphic solution with fantastic flares and a warm, organic cinematic feel.  On a micro four-thirds camera, the B&H will accept a 55mm or 58mm taking lens with little or no vignetting (or a slightly wider taking lens if you’re shooting in 4:3 mode).

2 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

... so why not just getting rid of the B&H module and pair its anamorphot with a proper $F Module?

I could have bought a 'proper' single-focus module, but where’s the fun in that? :) One advantage is my modification is compact and lighter than a B&H with a SF module attached to it.  I definitely didn’t save any money doing the modification...at first.  But now that I have modified several B&H’s, I can make them more quickly and efficiently.  But the biggest advantage I gained was the amount I learned over the course of the prototyping - I look forward to hearing about what you learn in your pursuits!

2 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

Just thought I could share the idea here... and maybe get some feedback from others experimenting ;)

Anyhow, Many Thanks again for sharing your work with that "Open Source" Spirit.
You can be sure if I succeed I'll follow your example on that matter. Best!

Excellent!  I've been so focused on my goals that it didn't occur to me about other potential uses for the B&H.  It's great that you're thinking about other ways to get utility out of this anamorphic... definitely post back here with your findings!

Best,

|. . | .|

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9 hours ago, Bold said:

No worries...I think maybe we’re both talking about two different goals / approaches?  It sounds like you’re seeking a single-focus solution for your Baby H and Sankyoscope?

Whereas my goal was to find ways to make the B&H user-friendly for filmmaking.  When modified according to the information found throughout this thread, you can turn the B&H into a single-focus, close-focus, rack-focus, sharp-focus, lightweight, 2x anamorphic solution with fantastic flares and a warm, organic cinematic feel.  On a micro four-thirds camera, the B&H will accept a 55mm or 58mm taking lens with little or no vignetting (or a slightly wider taking lens if you’re shooting in 4:3 mode).

I could have bought a 'proper' single-focus module, but where’s the fun in that? :) One advantage is my modification is compact and lighter than a B&H with a SF module attached to it.  I definitely didn’t save any money doing the modification...at first.  But now that I have modified several B&H’s, I can make them more quickly and efficiently.  But the biggest advantage I gained was the amount I learned over the course of the prototyping - I look forward to hearing about what you learn in your pursuits!

Excellent!  I've been so focused on my goals that it didn't occur to me about other potential uses for the B&H.  It's great that you're thinking about other ways to get utility out of this anamorphic... definitely post back here with your findings!

Best,

|. . | .|

Hi. Thanks for your answer and having taken the time to develop on your specific goals, and by so making your previous answer more clear to me.

Sorry, I've cut my post to the minimum... just saw your concept exploited by another at an indecent price on ebay... no comments.

Cheers :)

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5 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

Hi. Thanks for your answer and having taken the time to develop on your specific goals, and by so making your previous answer more clear to me.

Sorry, I've cut my post to the minimum... just saw your concept exploited by another at an indecent price on ebay... no comments.

Cheers :)

By "another" you mean me? :) (since I posted mine yesterday).

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3 hours ago, Tito Ferradans said:

By "another" you mean me? :) (since I posted mine yesterday).

Wooopsy!! It was You Tito? Can't believe it! Was so disgusted I did not took the time to look who the seller was :) 

Sorry then. Just asking though if I may, does your version reach infinity? I mean bellow f22 ;) 'cause for the same price H16 + Rangefinder sure do.

I don't want to put Bold into this... but as he said his Optimisation of the B&H is not perfect...
He pointed me the fact that he didn't believe that using the B&H's glass would achieve the goals he thought I was aiming at.
I totally get that Bold doesn't want his project to be associated with an attempt to go in competition with some existing patented products.
Point taken, no hard feelings there, though it's a misunderstanding... I should have been clearer.

Also Tito, I owe You so much for all the Major Work you've done seeking and sharing the info on Anamorphics! Really! Thanks!!
I'm sorry I never donated to you and those like you do doing the Job for others. From now on I sure will!
I understand it's a lot of time and effort there that should be retributed!

But I mean... 1000CAD... I got my copy of the B&H for 80€ at a professional 16 & 8mm movies and hardware shop... the helicoid is 50€...
And pro bono if I follow Bold's tutorial I'll spent a nice w-end having fun building something ;) 

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Hahahaha! No worries! No offense taken.

Infinity is very much like Bold's tests on this thread, especially hard at wide apertures, but pretty nice at f/5.6 or so. We worked together on a video review - coming this weekend - and now I gotta let mine go since I have other lenses to get and talk about.

About the price, Bold and I talked about it and it takes into account a lot of R&D, parts and labor. There's a guy selling a much less efficient version for 1100 USD and he's been doing that for almost a year.  Pricing is never fully clear for anyone. Also, if someone buys an item from me, it's directly helping to fund future reviews and experiments. The tutorial is here, whoever wants to follow it can do it. The same way I have the tutorial for the Helios mod, I've sold over fifteen of them and no one ever complained about it. :D

The thing I like about this setup is that it's light for a projection lens, plus the lens support is a major difference in time saved while switching taking lenses.

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3 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

... but as he said his Optimisation of the B&H is not perfect...
I totally get that Bold doesn't want his project to be associated with an attempt to go in competition with some existing patented products.

I'm not sure where you're interpreting this from.

 

3 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

I got my copy of the B&H for 80€ at a professional 16 & 8mm movies and hardware shop... the helicoid is 50€...
And pro bono if I follow Bold's tutorial I'll spent a nice w-end

It can't be done in a weekend for 130€.  Not even close

 

3 hours ago, Guillaume Regnaux said:

Was so disgusted I did not took the time to look who the seller was

It's not unreasonable to ask 1000 CAD for:

  • Single-focus
  • Rack-focus
  • Infinity focus
  • Minimum focus under 1m
  • 2x bokeh
  • Fantastic flares
  • Excellent 15mm rail support / alignment
  • Compact and lightweight

Considering the great condition of Tito’s B&H glass, I think he should be asking $1000 USD.  It is a turnkey solution.

 

1 hour ago, Tito Ferradans said:

Infinity is very much like Bold's tests on this thread

Tito, did you adjust the front by (un)screwing slightly?  I was able to get much better results after that calibration.  It took a little trial-and-error, but if you have the camera connected to a monitor, you can fine-tune it fairly quickly.

 

 

 

 

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Just scanned through the whole thread to catch up.  Amazing work @Bold.  inspiring.

I may have missed it but given m4/3 coverage of 2.66:1 with 50mm (4/3).  Would s35 require 75mm to get the same ratio?  

Read that 85 works on ff so its surprising that s35 only gets 10mm wider.

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Hi froboy88, thanks! 

I can't say for certain about s35 since I only have an m43 camera.  You can use Tito's calculator or maybe this one to help you figure it out.  My best guess is that cropping or using 4:3 mode to get a 2:66:1 ratio on the B&H, you would not get vignetting with a 75mm lens on an s35 sensor.

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The B&H is a fantastic lens but requires some gymnastics to really get the most out of it.  I'm pretty proud of the mod and I believe it optimizes the B&H to its fullest potential.  Tito will be posting a review of it tomorrow.  In summary, to duplicate my lens modification, read through this entire thread carefully before starting.  You should have the following items:

  • B&H 16mm 2x Anamorphic Lens
  • 58mm Helicoid.  You can use a 52mm but the 58mm diameter allows a closer fit,  The downside is you'll need to fabricate a retainer ring for the front glass element.
  • Telescope Finderscope Clamp
  • Lens Support Bracket
  • Tap & Die Kit
  • Cyanoacrylate adhesive
  • Drill or Drill Press, and Table Vice
  • 3D Printer
  • ABS Filament
  • Materials for making the polyurethane mold
  • Silicone & Polyurethane Casting Material.  I recommend polyurethane Shore D Hardness; 75 (about the same durability as a construction hard hat)
  • 58mm Lens Cap, and cap to fit over the silver Series VII Ring
  • Matte Black Paint, Brush, and Thinner
  • Degreaser and Lithium Grease
  • Sandpaper / Cloth / Finishing Materials
  • Gorilla Tape.  Not necessary but a little added protection around the polyurethane
  • Epoxy
  • NAPHTHA and Lens Tissue
  • Micro Tools / Micro Screwdriver Set
  • Digital Caliper with 0.01mm tolerance

Expect to replace some parts during fabrication, like iterating the custom mold for the front housing, or breaking a helicoid, or throwing out a lot of failed 3D printing attempts.  Here is a breakdown of the labor steps required to produce the finished product:

  • Disassembling, re-greasing, and reassembling the heiicoid (helicoids bought off eBay come with poor quality, low viscosity grease).
  • Removing the original front housing and front glass element.
  • Thinning the matte black paint and painting the edge of the front glass element.  If you are lucky, your B&H's front element may already be painted.
  • Combining the lens support with the telescope bracket.  The Cyanoacrylate creates a temporary bond between the bracket & clamp, allowing to you drill & tap the hole for the screw that will hold them together permanently
  • Making the mold for the front housing.  Lots of trial-and-error here, make sure to read a lot about how to make molds. This is where your McGuyver skills and a trip to Home Depot comes in.
  • Casting the polyurethane for the front housing.  Again, some homework is required here, planning, and a tightly sealed mold!
  • 3d Printing an alignment collar for the helicoid to fit on the polyurethane front housing, the retaining ring to hold the glass element in the helicoid, and the follow focus gear.
  • Assembling and gluing all the fabricated parts.  Make sure everything fits properly before applying that epoxy!
  • Fit & finish (sanding, polishing, cleaning, etc.)
  • Adjusting the bracket height, the anamorphic alignment and calibrating infinity focus
  • Reviewing test footage to confirm the lens is ready for shooting

If you’re doing this for the first time, expect to spend at least 1-2 weeks putting this together.  Honestly, even with all the information in this thread I think it will take longer than that.  If you have a full time job, expect the process to take a few months.  This is not a short-term project, it requires immense patience, but the rewards are excellent!  When finished, what you achieve — and I’m typing it again, because it bears repeating — are the following features:

  • Single-focus
  • Infinity focus
  • Follow focus gear for rack-focusing, with a generous throw that allows for precise focus
  • Re-greased helicoid for smooth focus action 
  • Minimum focus of just under 1m for the 14mm helicoid version, and just under 30cm for the 30mm helicoid version (that is the closest focus of ANY anamorphic I know of).
  • Beautiful 2x bokeh
  • Superb, stable 15mm rail support that locks in alignment and reduces the time between switching taking lenses
  • Nylon alignment screws that won’t scratch the anamorphic
  • Compact and lightweight (the modded B&H + custom bracket = 866g. In comparison, a 16H + Rangefinder is 880g without the lens clamp, filter clamp, and rail support)
  • 58mm front thread for diopters or ND filters, and a Series VII rear thread
  • The side of the front element is painted matte black to reduce internal barrel reflection and preserve the amazing flares
  • Reversibility: The custom front housing can be removed and replaced with the original housing
  • An ideal anamorphic for micro four-thirds filmmakers

I encourage any B&H owner to do this mod.  The question you must ask yourself is how much time and money you’re willing to spend to get to a final, usable product.  If you have a lot of the equipment already (especially the 3D printer, tap & die kit, etc.) or your own workshop, you will save some money.

But for those who don’t have the time or resources, I will be selling my mods for around $1000 (depending on the quality of the original glass, and whether it’s a 14mm or 30mm helicoid).  Some of you may think this is expensive, but considering all the work that goes into it, and the value of all the features listed above, I believe this is a fair price.

This is a complete, turnkey anamorphic solution: You put the B&H mod on rails with your camera, and start shooting.  No other purchases are necessary.  If you are interested please message me, I will be be putting the mods up on eBay once Tito has sold his,

Some of the proceeds will help me recoup the parts & materials I went through during R&D.  Some will go to purchasing a lens from Tito (which will help fund his efforts).  Some of it will go towards my next project: modifying the Bausch & Lomb Projection lens.  I will add the same level of detail and information to that thread as I've done here.

I'm not trying to turn this thread into an advertisement for my mod.  I’d love to see other B&H owners continue innovating, modifying, testing, shooting, and posting to this thread to find new ways to get the most out of this great piece of glass!  I will continue to answer questions where I can, but I expect my participation on this thread will wane as I turn my eye towards my next projection lens project :)

Keep on modding!

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Is it possible to get the focusing group apart from the anamorphic and use it with other scopes (like 1.5 babies)? I see that everyone detaches the front element, and the second stays with the anamorphic glass, so can that one be detached too?

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2 hours ago, redimp said:

Is it possible to get the focusing group apart from the anamorphic and use it with other scopes (like 1.5 babies)? I see that everyone detaches the front element, and the second stays with the anamorphic glass, so can that one be detached too?

 

The short answer is, unfortunately, no. 

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Hey guys,

Opening this forum back up. I've been working with a CNC machinist to make an aluminum version of @Bold's polyurethane ring. Would anyone be interested in purchasing one of these rings? I'll post pictures once it's all done.

 

Also,

has anyone played with wide angle adapters and this lens? 

 

Thanks all.

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I use a Sony WA adapter for their handy cams.  The front thread of the BH is almost 55mm, so just use a step ring to attach a WA adapter.  I used the Sony because they are readily available and cheap.  Because the one I'm using is 0.7x, it makes lenses a little wider.   Handling is tough though.  The weight of the WA adapter makes the setup extremely front heavy.  I always use rails to mount the lens.  Also the front rotates, so make sure your lens is clean.

_29A9593.jpg

_29A9599.jpg

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@nahua i appreciate the input! as luck would have it, I ordered that exact wide angle adapter before even seeing your response! I'm still waiting on my metal mounting ring, but with a little gaff I've mounted my new helicoid which has a 58mm front thread and doesn't rotate when focused. Still trying to figure out the best mounting option, I sure do love @Bold's scope mount...

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My machinist is almost finished with the ring...standby!

Also, a sharpness test with and without the wide angle adapter recommended @nahua, introduces some lovely green artifacts. 50mm on s16 means full sensor coverage, upscaling to 4k horizontal resolution. 

 

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I love the closeup on the eyes!

In regards to the WA adapter, tests on my modded B&H produced poor results.  I believe this is because the helicoid sets the WA adapter too far from the front element of the B&H.

I've decided to bite the bullet, and engage a machinist to create an aluminum part to replace my polyurethane.  We reviewed all the pieces my mod to ensure that this new part will fit properly in my custom support bracket. I should have a final product in a few weeks.

Cheers,

|. . | .|

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