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Andrew Reid

EditReady now supports the Samsung NX1 / H.265

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Yeah, top image is iFFmpeg — lower image is EditReady. 

Your top image is named: EditReady.jpg.d7b9435857e491918307a0beea52aae8.jpg

and the bottom image is: iFFmpeg.jpg.d89ba4bd239a8061c664c55e0d1c76fb.jpg

Unless something got mixed up, the iFFMPEG version has a lot more shadow information (and the EditReady version has severely clipped the blacks). I use FFMPEG extensively, using both ProRes modes, and haven't seen black clipping like that (there are color shift issues with 4K material, however). You might try exporting to H.264 in both EditReady and iFFMPEG and see the difference from ProRes (H.264 runs really fast in FFMPEG). 175-225Mb/s H.264 should be OK for editing coming from 100Mb/s H.265 (nothing really lost as both are 420 8-bit).

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Hi,

 

I did other file test just to check my previous test.

 

Here is the result:

MacbookPro 15" Retina (mid 2014), 2,5Ghz,16 gbyte Ram, Nvidia 750GTM

Original file
length: 1m26 sec
Size: 859 885 665 bytes 

EditReady

Conversion time 3:08

Size: 6 063 430 470 bytes / 564,35 mbits

iFFmpeg
Conversion time: 4:18
Size: 7 415 829 539 bytes  / 690,22 mbits
 
WonderShare:
Conversion time: 4:57
Size: 5 914 414 404 bytes / 550 mbits

  Check the histogram of all the converted files

EditReady

EditReady.png

iFFmpeg

iFFmpeg.png

Wondershare

Wondershare.png

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This is what I heard from Colin at Divergent Media: 

Hi there - We’re still doing some investigating, but I wanted to give you an update. I think we’ll also write a blog post to explain this issue in a little more depth, because it gets pretty confusing.

So, when you’re in the 0-255 mode on the Samsung, you’re essentially not producing “video” (in the traditional sense) - it’s more akin to something like a raw image. QuickTime in general doesn’t have a concept of a 0-255 range “video” signal (though it can store the samples). Normally, the workflow with 0-255 video would be to either apply a LUT during conversion (to map it into the video space) or do a CC pass. We made the decision in EditReady to preserve the full range, rather than compressing.

As a test, I took one of your files (03310014.mov) and ran it through EditReady and iFFmpeg, converting to ProRes with each.

http://note.io/1HiOx2F
http://note.io/1ED6w6q

Above, you’ll find the waveform for each. You’ll notice that iFFmpeg has compressed the range down to video space (16-235) rather than preserving the full range. After grabbing those shots, I brought both files into Premiere Pro and used the three way color corrector to compress the whites and blacks of the EditReady signal to match the iFFmpeg signal. Once the waveforms were matched, I couldn’t see any difference in detail between the two shots. (in the detail of the concrete path for example) One note - for an actual edit, I wouldn’t want to do this type of CC work in PPro either, as it has some clamping issues with superblack/superwhite - Resolve will handle this sort of signal much better.

As I said, we’ll keep investigating and then do a writeup, but I think the best advice is if you’re not planning to go through a full LUT/CC pass, you should be shooting video range (16-235), rather than counting on your transcode to clamp your values.

-Colin

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Yeah, top image is iFFmpeg — lower image is EditReady.

I talked with the good people at EditReady (killer customer service, by the way).  They explained that iFFmpeg is keeping the imported 0-255 luminance level in their ProRes files while EditReady converts the footage to 16-235.  So the shadow and highlight detail isn't lost completely, a simple curves adjust can bring it back.  It isn't an ideal solution, but I have found EditReady's ProRes files are much easier on my CPU / GPU.  I found that iFFmpeg ProRes files really bogged down my machine. 

Screen Shot 2015-03-31 at 9.51.19 PM.png

Screen_Shot_2015-03-31_at_10.22.01_PM.th

​Maybe we could try with the fast color correction, setting the output to 16-235. This did the trick wit the GH4... I'll see if it works :) 

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Your top image is named: EditReady.jpg.d7b9435857e491918307a0beea52aae8.jpg

and the bottom image is: iFFmpeg.jpg.d89ba4bd239a8061c664c55e0d1c76fb.jpg

Unless something got mixed up, the iFFMPEG version has a lot more shadow information (and the EditReady version has severely clipped the blacks). I use FFMPEG extensively, using both ProRes modes, and haven't seen black clipping like that (there are color shift issues with 4K material, however). You might try exporting to H.264 in both EditReady and iFFMPEG and see the difference from ProRes (H.264 runs really fast in FFMPEG). 175-225Mb/s H.264 should be OK for editing coming from 100Mb/s H.265 (nothing really lost as both are 420 8-bit).

​Oops. I had that mixed up.  The opposite of what I said.

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I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this post, but Edit ready is also based on FFMpeg. 

​They appear to be using FFMPEG elements for file reading (LGPL libraries vs. FFMPEG itself) and appear to be using AVFoundation (etc.) which is native OSX if using Apple's ProRes for final output. At which point AVFoundation supports H.265 decoding (does it already?), FFMPEG (and libraries) wouldn't be needed at all to transcode H.265 into ProRes. AVFoundation is super easy to code for (especially compared to DirectShow on Windows). If AVFoundation already supports H.265, a custom tool for H.265 to ProRes would be fairly quick & easy to create (a few hours of coding- GUI, etc. would take more time). MainConcept also has decent tools/libraries (possibly much faster than the free/GPL/LGPL stuff), though the licensing cost would up product cost.

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​They appear to be using FFMPEG elements for file reading (LGPL libraries vs. FFMPEG itself) and appear to be using AVFoundation (etc.) which is native OSX if using Apple's ProRes for final output. At which point AVFoundation supports H.265 decoding (does it already?), FFMPEG (and libraries) wouldn't be needed at all to transcode H.265 into ProRes. AVFoundation is super easy to code for (especially compared to DirectShow on Windows). If AVFoundation already supports H.265, a custom tool for H.265 to ProRes would be fairly quick & easy to create (a few hours of coding- GUI, etc. would take more time). MainConcept also has decent tools/libraries (possibly much faster than the free/GPL/LGPL stuff), though the licensing cost would up product cost.

​Thanks for sharing this knowledge with us :)

BTW fast color correction in premiere pro works very well for me to get the blacks back :)

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Nice to know about the 0-255 issue.

Switched to 16-235 in-camera and the problem has gone. Makes grading that bit more straight forward.

Loving EditReady. It's a beast.

​Do you lose any dynamic range shooting 16-235 vs. 0-255?

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I dont think that in the end it changes anything regarding dynamic range.

I think it is just a way of communicating info to your nle. There was an article that described that very well I'll see if I can find it and post it :/ 

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Got it ! 

http://blog.josephmoore.name/2014/10/29/the-three-most-misunderstood-gh4-settings/

It was about the GH4 settings, but I have an intuition it's going to be the same about the NX1.

 

​While there's no difference in the brightest and darkest pixels in 0-255 vs. 16-235, there are only 220 code values for 16-235 vs. 256 code values for 0-255. 36 code values aren't a huge difference, but could affect banding in some cases (less contrast range).

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I'm really liking my NX1, but i don't really feel like I'm maximizing its potential, especially in terms of DR and color. On just standard profiles, it looks great right out of the cam, but I haven't found a good flat setting yet. The colors seem to get messed up to my eyes in Gamma DR. Do these various converters deal with color differently?

​Don't drop contrast below -5, use black level instead. If you drop the contrast to far it completely kills the colors out of the camera.

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Just dropping some iFFmpeg hints here:

You can convert 0-255 to 13-235 by setting the color range in the Advanced/Generic options at the bottom.

And don't forget the "Convert Color Matrix" video filter. Makes it easy to convert between BT.601 and BT.709.

 

 

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Hi folks - I'm one of the developers from Divergent Media, and I thought I'd chime in a bit here.  If folks have questions about why we're doing what we're doing (IE, not remapping 0-255 to 16-235) let me know.  We *think* this is the right approach, since presumably people shooting 0-255 generally are doing so for a specific reason.  Has anyone created a basic LUT for NX1 footage at this point?  We'd be happy to help spread the word.

Just to clarify one point - while EditReady does use the ffmpeg libraries for reading MXF files and (currently) for h.265 decoding, EditReady isn't just a wrapper on FFmpeg.  We also leverage Apple's VideoToolbox framework (the framework that underlies AVF) and even old QuickTime frameworks for legacy codecs.  All the hardware accelerated / OpenCL code is custom, in-house stuff, which means we have full control of the image pipeline - all the color transforms, etc.

If folks have questions, just let me know!

-Colin

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Hi Colin, I've been using your software for some time, and I was wondering if there is any chance that there could be some more "advanced" options enabled ?

I would love to be able to control the bitrate for macroblocking for instance, as it is one of the flaws of the NX1 :/ 

Any opinion about that :) ? 

Thanks for making this great soft, that made me the economy of quite some time :) 

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