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Andrew Reid

Canon finally stretches video legs with EOS 1D X - resolution fixed and better compression chip

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/5d3-vs-1dx.jpg[/img]

Above: notice the detail on the girl’s hair and shirt collar in the 1D X shot

[url="http://www.adorama.com/ICA1DX.html?KBID=66885"]Pre-order the 1D X at Adorama[/url] - the camera is now shipping in limited quantities – more stock expected soon

[url="https://vimeo.com/44496874"]Dan Chung (watch the comparison video)[/url] has had a play with the long delayed Canon 1D X, the flagship pro full frame DSLR which was announced last year. Dan’s find is worth paying close attention to because it seems the 1D X’s image quality in video mode is exactly what we were hoping for from the 5D Mark III.

Below is my technical analysis of what is going on.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/?p=8259/"]Read full article[/url]

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
After downloading and reviewing the original HD file myself, I have to agree with you that it seems the 1DX offers a sharper image than the 5D3. Unfortunately, I don't think it comes as close to the GH2 / C300 as you think. Still muddy...

The 5D3 shot is particularly disheartening to look at. So soft...

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It does seem to have better dynamic range but for actual detail rendered I'm just not seeing that much difference, sharpen the 5DIII a bit and it looks close to the 1Dx. GH2 outdoes them both and [i]still[/i] it doesn't max out what you can get out of 1080p

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Next up, notice how much more detail there is in the lows. Blacks far less crushed. Note the crushed black in the girl's hair on the 5D3 shot. 1D X (right side) looks flatter, even though the same picture profile settings were at play.

Seems to be a more gradual roll off too - in both the shadows and highlights. Although the sun light outside the shutters to the right was varying, I captured what I think are two very close exposures here and the 1D X definitely has a significant advantages in the highlights in terms of both detail and roll off.

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Wishful thinking I know, but maybe updated firmware has something to do with it. Canon Rumors guy has said that new features are coming with the next firmware update. After the fiasco with the 650D clean HDMI time limit, its hard to believe the 5DIII's soft image is a technical limitation instead of a forced disadvantage.

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Your random plug for the Gh2 was rather unnecessary I think.

Also the bit about the 1Dx and the 1Dc using "similar hardware" was a bit misleading. Only if by that you mean that they are in the same body, and they arguably have the exact same hardware, but separate firmware.

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[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=884.msg6418#msg6418 date=1340480931]
Your random plug for the Gh2 was rather unnecessary I think.

Also the bit about the 1Dx and the 1Dc using "similar hardware" was a bit misleading. Only if by that you mean that they are in the same body, and they arguably have the exact same hardware, but separate firmware.
[/quote]

You seem to be having a small fight with the facts here. The GH2 info was not a plug at all, when it comes to processing power the GH2's LSI has 3 cores and the 5D Mark III has 1. That means 1 core has to juggle more tasks and it does not have a dedicated encoder chip like the GH2 either. All relevant info when considering your purchase, me thinks.

The 1D X and 1D C do share similar hardware. It isn't misleading in the least to say so! Always provide reasons behind a point of view.

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[quote author=miseducation link=topic=884.msg6416#msg6416 date=1340479932]
Wishful thinking I know, but maybe updated firmware has something to do with it. Canon Rumors guy has said that new features are coming with the next firmware update. After the fiasco with the 650D clean HDMI time limit, its hard to believe the 5DIII's soft image is a technical limitation instead of a forced disadvantage.
[/quote]

Not just a time limit, the 650D doesn't actually even have clean HDMI, it has a blinking red dot at the top corner and a big black frame around the edge. I think Johnnie has pre-production firmware. Pre-crippled.

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[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=884.msg6419#msg6419 date=1340481067]
[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=884.msg6418#msg6418 date=1340480931]
Your random plug for the Gh2 was rather unnecessary I think.

Also the bit about the 1Dx and the 1Dc using "similar hardware" was a bit misleading. Only if by that you mean that they are in the same body, and they arguably have the exact same hardware, but separate firmware.
[/quote]

You seem to be having a small fight with the facts here. The GH2 info was not a plug at all, when it comes to processing power the GH2's LSI has 3 cores and the 5D Mark III has 1. That means 1 core has to juggle more tasks and it does not have a dedicated encoder chip like the GH2 either. All relevant info when considering your purchase, me thinks.

The 1D X and 1D C do share similar hardware. It isn't misleading in the least to say so! Always provide reasons behind a point of view.
[/quote]

I understand the need to compare the specs of different cameras, but the Gh2 was entirely unmentioned until you thought it was necessary to boast about it's specs and price. I realize that you like the camera, but when you plug how great it is in nearly every article, some may begin to question your journalistic integrity. (though i'm not saying I am. Just that the plug seems unnecessary in this case)

Yes, I realize they share similar hardware, but the misleading part is HOW similar they are, which you really failed to mention.

Not trying to be attacking, but I feel those were key points in relation to the topic that could have been addressed better.

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First of all I'm not a journalist. I'm a filmmaker. The GH2 is currently my greatest point of reference for the other cameras, since it is the one I have most experience with.

Second, you're missing the whole point I was trying to make about the processing cores. It isn't a boast. It would only be a boast I designed and made the GH2 myself! That the GH2 has 3 + dedicated encoder chip for such a low price and the Canon 5D Mark III has only 1 core and no dedicated encoder (probably does it in software) is relevant. Canon should have delivered more for the $3500.

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Examining the full clip in detail, the 1DX has more resolution, however its antialiasing is weaker. It appears to be antialiased more on the vertical axis than the horizontal axis, giving it a more digital look vs. film. Ideally, the image is high resolution and antialiased. The 5D3 image looks more like film, even though it is lower resolution.

Both images were noisy, and the ALL-I codec did not work very well for this shot (low motion): IPB would likely do better in this case with more detail and less block artifacts.

5D3 image sharpened at 33 + minor curve adjust, 1DX sharpened at 16, both Neat Video noise reduced.

After processing, during playback and full screen, hard to see much of a difference in quality.

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Hi,

It's clear the 1D X has improved at least two aspects:

- Video compression
- Image resolution / sharpness

I've been watching some 5D3 test with ML and I can assure there is still enough room for processing...

So I really don't think Canon cannot improve the firmware to get better ALL-I compressed files and many other aspects of video.

In fact ALL-I compression improvement was one of the first requests after watching many ALL-I tests which show more blocky and noisier footage in low ISO than IPB mode, especially on scenes with not much detail or movement. Constant bitrate was also requested for ALL-I since VBR drops very quickly in the mentioned scenes (hence, poor quality)

Regarding resolution, I don't think Canon cannot improve it either. Digic 5+ has great processing power, it's indeed processing the video noise reduction in real time (even if you disable it) and many other aspects not "transparent" to the user. As mentioned above I've seen ML tests running on 5D3 and there still lot of processing power there...

[b]So if Canon does not improve the video quality of 5D Mark 3 via Firmware Update is simply because they do not want to.[/b]

They could even also add better focus assist options, still denied to users (but available in other brands, with no more powerful processors, and of course in more expensive Canon cameras)

It's crazy that Canon doesn't even implement "Peaking" on 1D C for $15K...

Most of these reasons are not hardware limitation, but pure marketing segmentation and strategies. Crippling cameras is so bad and nasty...

"Canon should have delivered more for the $3500."
Completely agree. [b]Canon STILL SHOULD (and CAN) deliver more for the $3,500 Canon 5D Mark III[/b].

I really hope many other people request to Canon and competition helps pushing them to improve Firmware.

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[quote author=amband link=topic=884.msg6427#msg6427 date=1340493638]
[size=12pt]why bother.  From what I can see the audio is no better.  People here don't seem to be that concerned with audio, which is unfortunate, as it's 50% of quality video[/size]
[/quote]

Spend the same price on dedicated recorders and microphones then.  An Imax camera doesn't record audio.

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It is clear from the sample video the !DX is sharper across the frame look at the other objects in the frame all looks better! I wonder if a hacked 7D can also improve video quality? or maybe the new firmare as that has 2 CPU, 1 can output video the other to compress,???

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