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Samsung NX1 firmware v1.21 up now

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Ok let me chime in.  This is what I would like to see in the updates to come.

1) I think banding is an issue. When pushed a little in post, banding shows its ugly face. I stopped shooting too flat so I don't have to push contrast so much in post.

2) Jello is an issue. Perhaps a 2k mode could help.

3) Moire and aliasing often visible. Especially when 4K is downscaled to HD

4) The recorded sound is really bad due to the auto gain. We need to be able to turn auto gain off. This is important. As for now the sound is hardly usable.

5) I would like to be able to stay in video standby mode at all times.

6) When playing back a clip, the camera "forgets" your latest settings (goes back to the saved settings). This is annoying.

Besides these issues I really love this camera :)

1) Agree, I think to further prevent this the simplest solution is to up the bitrate. Maybe a double 150mb/s mode (Ultra Pro) that has a warning when you turn it on that if you don't have a fast enough card you will get dropped frames.

2) yup

​3) This is the fault of the software your using, not the camera. The 4K image is flawless in terms in detail.

4) Significantly agree. I've been using the camera for doc work and recording audio externally instead of in the camera.

5) I agree, when you stop recording it should stay in movie standby mode.

6) I have not encountered this issue. Is it repeatable in your camera? What settings does it reset?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

1) Agree, I think to further prevent this the simplest solution is to up the bitrate. Maybe a double 150mb/s mode (Ultra Pro) that has a warning when you turn it on that if you don't have a fast enough card you will get dropped frames.

2) yup

​3) This is the fault of the software your using, not the camera. The 4K image is flawless in terms in detail.

4) Significantly agree. I've been using the camera for doc work and recording audio externally instead of in the camera.

5) I agree, when you stop recording it should stay in movie standby mode.

6) I have not encountered this issue. Is it repeatable in your camera? What settings does it reset?

​Not the guy you replied to, but yeah #6 happens to me as well. I have a custom mode set to default to iso 100, make adjustments to settings, take a pic/vid, review it, go back and it's at 100 again along with the shutter setting. Not the worst thing ever but kind of annoying.

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Hello,

Regarding Samsung's firmware (v1.21) for the NX1, I have a question for the videographers on this forum.

I would like to record clips with a high frame rate (e.g. 50 fps) while not giving up the ability to later use them in lower frame rate video productions (e.g. 25 fps). Recording my footage with a high frame rate would allow me to do slow motion in post-processing. If the higher frame rate is a multiple of the lower frame rate, then I should be able to integrate the high-fps footage in my low-fps productions without judder.

The Samsung NX1 seems to allow for the following frame rates as of firmware version 1.21:

  • 23.976 fps
  • 24 fps
  • 25 fps
  • 29.970 fps
  • 50 fps
  • 59.940 fps

Regarding 59.94 fps vs. 60 fps, see this thread on dpreview: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55323196

Considering that I would like my lower frame rate to be very close to the cinematic feel of 24 fps, the only possible combination of frame rate pairs seems to be 25/50 fps (and not 29.97/59.94 fps).

However, for a low frame rate movie, you usually want a 180° shutter, i.e. if you record at 25 fps, the shutter will usually be something like 1/50s. According to what I learned, choosing a faster shutter will lead to a too "crispy" motion (not enough motion blur).

While the NX1 may record 24, 25, and 29.97 fps videos with a 1/30s shutter, the NX1 will record 50 and 59.94 fps videos only with a shutter speed of 1/60s or faster. Therefore, it is impossible to realize a 180° shutter for 25 fps movies where you use footage that has been recorded at 50 fps with the NX1 (because that footage will have a shutter speed of at least 1/60s), right?

I wonder whether the 1/60s shutter limitation at 50 fps has technical reasons or whether this is a bug? Maybe it's really just a software issue that could be fixed easily?

How do other DSLR's and mirrorless cameras behave in that regard?

I have been asking this question also on http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55360098 and I have been referred to this forum (EOSHD).

Kind Regards
Jan

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You want to have 180 shutter for the final framerate of your project.

For example footatge recorded at 50p 1/50 will look fine when converted to 25fps, but create a blurry unnatural motion effect at 50 fps. Inversely recording at 1/100 while shooting 50p, if you convert that to 25p it will look overly sharp and jittery. Recording 50p for a 25p project also halves your effective bitrate.

I know it's nice to have options in post, but in this case the trade offs are most likely not worth it for you.

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You want to have 180 shutter for the final framerate of your project.

Yes, that's why I would like to record 50 fps with a 1/50s shutter. For normal-speed scenes, I would drop every other frame, giving me:

  • 25 fps with a 180° shutter

Additionally, if all frames are used (and not just every other frame), I could use the material as follows:

  • 50 fps with a 360° shutter (yes slightly blurry, but I doubt it's so noticable at 50 fps? I assume the blurriness of 360° at 25 fps is much more noticable than 360° at 50 fps... but I may be wrong?)
  • 2x slow-motion at 25 fps with a 360° shutter (also with the blurry effect, but that might even be an interesting effect during slow-motion sequences)

For example footatge recorded at 50p 1/50 will look fine when converted to 25fps, but create a blurry unnatural motion effect at 50 fps. Inversely recording at 1/100 while shooting 50p, if you convert that to 25p it will look overly sharp and jittery. Recording 50p for a 25p project also halves your effective bitrate.

I know it's nice to have options in post, but in this case the trade offs are most likely not worth it for you.

​That's what I want: a fine look at 25 fps, but still having the option for special effects using the extra frames in post production (even if, for slow-motion, I have to accept a 360° shutter).

But to allow that, I would need to record at 50 fps with a 1/50s shutter, which seems to be not possible with the Samsung NX1 (as of firmware v1.21). And I wonder if there are technical reasons, or whether it would be just an easy-to-fix firmware issue (and whether other cameras allow this mode of operation). I am aware of the drawbacks (higher bitrate, blurriness when all frames are used, etc.), but I still would like to have that option at least for certain recordings.

For the same reasons, recording in 48 fps would be nice...

P.S.: I just figured out the Samsung NX1 allows recording at 100 fps and 120 fps too! At least it looks like that to me... The ability is somewhat hidden here:

Menu -> Video -> Fast / Slow Movie

If the camera is set to 1920 x 1080 and a frame rate of 25, 29.97 (displayed as 30), 50, or 59.94 (displayed as 60), then the "Fast/Slow Movie" option seems to allow you to increase the actual frame rate up to "100p" or "120p" (I assume that is 119.880 fps). The frame rate in the header will be 25, 29.97, 50, or 59.94 though, but the recording seems to be done with 100 or 119.880 fps respectively. I didn't know this was possible!

However, it doesn't allow you to record at 48 fps or 47.952 fps :-(

The shutter speed seems to be limited to 1/125s minimum if you record at 119.880 fps. The same limit (1/125s) seems to be the case if I try to record at 100 fps by selecting 25 fps and 1/4 slow-motion. If I select 50 fps and 1/2 slow-motion, however, the shutter speed can be set to 1/60s. The latter behavior seems to be a firmware bug, I assume?

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I have a contact, will collect this feedback on the thread and send it.

The viewing screen not being a reflex groundglass anymore, there is no technical reason to keep it over the taking lens axis,

on the contrary it would be more ergonomic to move it to the left side (the Leica M side) also adopted by the Lumix compact mirrorless cameras.

Samsung NX-n.jpg

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That would suck for taking photos with a on camera flash it would be just off center to give a shadow on walls behind the subject that is the point of having the flash right over the lens to stop any shadows. With this set up even someones own hair would show a shadow then on their own face.

 

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While I've been desiring a rangefinder nx with evf for years, the one in the mockup wouldn't satisfy me. I don't want the hump, so a design like gx7 or a6000 would get me excited. I don't mind in camera flash.

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oh -  and another thing. I would like smoother (slower ?) transitions between iso shifts when using auto iso. As things are now iso shifts are not very smooth and somewhat distracting.

I hope that Andrew (and others) with the right connections at Samsung, will pass this blog post on.

Thanks.

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The viewing screen not being a reflex groundglass anymore, there is no technical reason to keep it over the taking lens axis,

on the contrary it would be more ergonomic to move it to the left side (the Leica M side) also adopted by the Lumix compact mirrorless cameras.

Samsung NX-n.jpg

​Having used the sony A6000 with a setup like this I strongly disagree, it makes it awkward supporting and focusing large adapted glass because your left hand has to reach further to the right. Its the perfect setup for using light samsung lenses in AF mode, but filming with this setup is an inconvenience. 

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I think it would be best if Samsung just would come out with a video camera with xlr audio and so on in a little larger body designed for video hand held shooting with a large finder and flip out LCD kind of like the new JVC that will be out soon. Get rid of all the photo shooting features and go all video. Then we would have something amazing.

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I've been playing with a couple of 1min h.265 clips downloaded from a friend who has a NX1. 

these 1min h.265 4k clips take 20mins to convert to prores LT on my 4yr old macbook pro 17" 8gb ram. upgrading to a newer macbook will happen when apple release a haswell chip version... so still waiting for that.

i shoot 3x cam, multicam interviews, which normally run about 15-20mins.. so thats 20mins x 3 which means about 24hours of just converting before i can start editing.. plus at least another 30mins of footage of b-roll.. example here of what i do http://youtu.be/w9iG_FuUtZI 

--SO... I'd love samsung to give us the ability to export to prores from within the camera, using the internal hardware chips. so during transfer to the pc/mac we could have a option to export prores or h.264 files down the usb.. so the converting is done inside the camera using its special fast h.265 chip.. and then we can download the h.265 as a backup to our HD later.

If samsung can do this, then I will grab three of these NX500 cameras.. if not, i cannot wait 24hours before i even start editing.. and keep on looking for other 4k cameras for my needs.

Thanks, 
Tony.

 

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Ok, this one is big.

 

Yesterday I took some pics of my daughter with the 16-50s and nx1. It was a sunny day, but the shadows were quite harsh on the subject (so a big difference in exposure from subject to background). Fill-in flash was in use to compensate this.

I used selection af, in the middle, accuracy as focus release option (a combo that never gave me issues). The af square was set at the second smaller option.

Well, with the square pointed on the face, the camera focused on the background more than once. The oddest thing is that when this happened, it wouldn't change focus unless I focused on the body.

My take is that probably the square was a bit bigger than the face, thus going on the background, where contrast was probably higher.

 

I posted this on dpr and many users replied, complaining about the same issue. This did not happen with nx300 or other nx cameras.

 

This NEEDS to be fixed by samsung.

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--SO... I'd love samsung to give us the ability to export to prores from within the camera, using the internal hardware chips. so during transfer to the pc/mac we could have a option to export prores or h.264 files down the usb.. so the converting is done inside the camera using its special fast h.265 chip.. and then we can download the h.265 as a backup to our HD later.

If samsung can do this, then I will grab three of these NX500 cameras.. if not, i cannot wait 24hours before i even start editing.. and keep on looking for other 4k cameras for my needs

 

Don't hold your breath.   ProRes is licensed by Apple.   Samsung would never pay it's biggest corporate rival for a video codec.  An H.264 option would be fine with me. 

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About #1, 150Mb/sec or even higher bitrate shouln't be an issue for many sd cards. Cheap cards have been benchmarked at well over 20MB/sec.

​That is maximum speed at burst. Actual speeds may be lower. If you just meet the maximum write speed on a card, chances are pretty good that you will have problems.

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I wonder whether the 1/60s shutter limitation at 50 fps has technical reasons or whether this is a bug? Maybe it's really just a software issue that could be fixed easily?

 

​60 fps means 60 frames per second. You can't have a shutter speed faster than that, because at 1/60s the shutter is open permanently. If the shutter is open for longer than the exposure all that means is that it will close sometime during the next frame, and you don't want that.

Your shutter speed always has to exceed the frame rate. 

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I've been playing with a couple of 1min h.265 clips downloaded from a friend who has a NX1. 

these 1min h.265 4k clips take 20mins to convert to prores LT on my 4yr old macbook pro 17" 8gb ram. upgrading to a newer macbook will happen when apple release a haswell chip version... so still waiting for that.

i shoot 3x cam, multicam interviews, which normally run about 15-20mins.. so thats 20mins x 3 which means about 24hours of just converting before i can start editing.. plus at least another 30mins of footage of b-roll.. example here of what i do http://youtu.be/w9iG_FuUtZI 

--SO... I'd love samsung to give us the ability to export to prores from within the camera, using the internal hardware chips. so during transfer to the pc/mac we could have a option to export prores or h.264 files down the usb.. so the converting is done inside the camera using its special fast h.265 chip.. and then we can download the h.265 as a backup to our HD later.

If samsung can do this, then I will grab three of these NX500 cameras.. if not, i cannot wait 24hours before i even start editing.. and keep on looking for other 4k cameras for my needs.

Thanks, 
Tony.

 

​Those sorts of conversions are usually done by hardware encoders, and if the camera processor doesn't have them it can't do it.

The problem will go away when NLEs can edit H.265 natively.

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