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John Palmer

Gh4 4k downscaled recording to Atomos Ninja Star?

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I was just wondering if is possible to be shooting 4k video on the gh4 and record downscaled 1080p to the ninja star. I know the Ninja Star only records up to 1080p but if I were going to be downscaling the 4k to 1080p anyway on my computer, would the ninja star be able to do this for me?

Or would the ninja 2 or maybe the blackmagic hyperdeck shuttle 2 be able to do this?

I don't see the Shogun to be a cost effective option for me at the moment and I'm not sure I would buy it if I had the money anyway. I'm sure having 4k 10 bit 422 and downscaling that to 1080p later would be better than 8 bit 4k, downscaled to 1080p 422 10-bit. But would it be that great of a difference?

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I do this with the Ninja Star all the time. Results are very good. The 4K 10-bit downscaled in-camera to ProRes 422 looks fantastic, grades surprisingly well (lifted shadows 3 stops and got still usable tone with a very film-grain-like noise structure, much like 16mm film). 

For me, since I deliver 1080p and 720p I see this as a major advantage and don't see a benefit to always shooting 4k in camera - I consider the resulting quality between in-camera 4K downscaled to 1080p in post and the 1080p downscale captured as 10-bit ProRes to be negligible, with an advantage to ProRes for workflow speed and latitude for grading later, and a slight advantage to in-camera for one less thing to carry on the rig and the possible option for reframing in post, but I pay for that in post render times and consider it a very very bad habit to shoot with the idea that you'll reframe later. So if you light properly or know how to work with available light well to begin with, and expose/balance properly to begin with (which you should be doing anyway) then you'll get fantastic and very pleasing results with the Ninja Star. I shoot nearly all of my client work with it now, it really does produce some gorgeous footage.

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I do this with the Ninja Star all the time. Results are very good. The 4K 10-bit downscaled in-camera to ProRes 422 looks fantastic, grades surprisingly well (lifted shadows 3 stops and got still usable tone with a very film-grain-like noise structure, much like 16mm film). 

​I have yet to tell the difference between 10bit and 8bit on any camera.

The Blackmagic cameras are good mainly due to lack of compression. 10bit has very little to do with it.

I think 10bit could be the most overrated attribute of video acquisition ever.

I literally can grade 10bit GH4 4K and 8bit together on the same timeline the same way and pixel for pixel they're identical! And it doesn't sort out banding either.

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This is intrusting to watch.

This it editing a 8 bit file in Edius in 10 Bit to fix all the problems of 8 bit.

This is a long video that shows a lot of what can be done in Eduis

Go to start point of 24.00 to start at the point he talks about editing in 10 bit for 8 bit files and shows what it dose.

Seems like if it is this easy then 10 bit from the camera is not needed to get the 10 bit color space for editing.

http://www-en.ediusworld.com/edification/edius-7-and-the-film-look/for-the-craft-editor

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I have yet to tell the difference between 10bit and 8bit on any camera.

The Blackmagic cameras are good mainly due to lack of compression. 10bit has very little to do with it.

I think 10bit could be the most overrated attribute of video acquisition ever.

I literally can grade 10bit GH4 4K and 8bit together on the same timeline the same way and pixel for pixel they're identical! And it doesn't sort out banding either.

I can just see it. I don't know what it is, but 10-bit always looks subtler and more natural to my eye. It also maintains a more pleasing, natural look when you apply some "style" to it in grading or push the saturation/DR recovery. Try testing internally vs externally recorded footage with some work done on them and you'll see more difference. 

I'm surprised you don't see any difference in the compression. Most reviews say the GH4's codec suffers from muddy darks, so you'd think an external recorder would help with pulling up and denoising the shadows without any weirdness. But I've only used one once and wasn't involved in post, so I can't say one way or the other. 

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Finally got my ninja star, yay.

So I set gh4 to c4k, hdmi output to 10 bit 422, 4k downscale to off, and start recording via record button on the star, is that it? The star will downscale the 4k signal automatically? Can't start recording on the camera with these settings.

Oh and if I record sound from a mic, does it make a difference if I plug the cable into the gh4 or the ninja star?

Thanks!

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Finally got my ninja star, yay.

So I set gh4 to c4k, hdmi output to 10 bit 422, 4k downscale to off, and start recording via record button on the star, is that it? The star will downscale the 4k signal automatically? Can't start recording on the camera with these settings.

Oh and if I record sound from a mic, does it make a difference if I plug the cable into the gh4 or the ninja star?

Thanks!

I am interested in that as well. I would like to have the star down sample the A7rii 4k signal.

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Finally got my ninja star, yay.

So I set gh4 to c4k, hdmi output to 10 bit 422, 4k downscale to off, and start recording via record button on the star, is that it? The star will downscale the 4k signal automatically? Can't start recording on the camera with these settings.

Oh and if I record sound from a mic, does it make a difference if I plug the cable into the gh4 or the ninja star?

Thanks!

I don't think C4K records on the Ninja Star. Only UHD. Set your HDMI output to 4:2:2 10 Bit output, and downscaling to AUTO, or 1080p.

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On 12/31/2014 at 6:23 PM, Andrew Reid said:

I have yet to tell the difference between 10bit and 8bit on any camera.

The Blackmagic cameras are good mainly due to lack of compression. 10bit has very little to do with it.

I think 10bit could be the most overrated attribute of video acquisition ever.

I literally can grade 10bit GH4 4K and 8bit together on the same timeline the same way and pixel for pixel they're identical! And it doesn't sort out banding either.

We are shooting with two gh4s.. one is a A cam that has a 4k recorder and the other is internal.  The color is better and the footage looks better on the recorder but I never thought weather or not that has to do with 10 bit vs internal compression.  I am thinking of getting a ninja star and running 1080p to it with downscaled 4k footage as the b cam.  We only use pro res LT tho because of the file sizes get crazy with two cameras.  

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I use a NInja Star with a GX8 and the images quality is excellent. As I only shoot with one cam, I use prores HQ.

I get that thick looking colour depth with good latitude for grading and that is just with the 8 bit stream from the GX8. 10 bit from the GH4 would be fantastic.

I just stream 1080 to it from the GX8, but I will see if the NInja Star downscales 4K from the GX8. I think it probably won't.

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