Stabilisation in post

[herein2020]

21 hours ago, kye said:

(Disclaimer...  the below might sound harsh, but it's directed at the theories you're presenting, not you!  Hopefully my comments are useful and informative and correct some of the staggering misinformation floating around).

That's nonsense.

The data coming off the sensor is RAW - it's whatever the resolution is x the bit-depth x 3 (RGB channels).  

I think that Osmos and GoPros have the best stabilisation based on two factors - 1) they have fixed lenses and can tune their algorithms based on that, and 2) the entire success or failure of those products rests on how well they implement this feature.

I will preface this by saying I do not know all of the intricacies of digital stabilization or IBIS; I know the limitations, how they work, and what exceeds their capabilities but would definitely defer to a camera engineer on the specifics of why one system works better than others.

With that said, I can see why it would be plausible for smaller sensors to handle digital stabilization better. Just because the data is raw doesn't mean the information coming from the smaller sensor has the same resolving power or quantity of information as the larger sensors. The raw data from a smaller sensor will have less color data than the larger sensors otherwise there'd be no reason to make larger sensors. With less color data, it would take less processing power to stabilize the footage digitally (similar to two pictures shot from the same camera...the one with lots of color will be substantially larger than the one with less color in the scene). I do think the fixed lens helps, and I think like you said; GoPro, DJI, etc. had more incentive to get it right vs the MILC camera makers, but I don't think incentive is the only reason it works so well in smaller cameras. Another challenge is always battery life as well; the more processing power used for Digital IS, the worse the battery life will be; for larger cameras that could become a real problem.

As far as sensor size for IBIS, I am quite familiar with how it correlates to a car's suspension; but where the two diverge is that once again battery life is a concern with cameras whereas it is not a concern with cars. A larger sensor will require a more power hungry IBIS system to stabilize the larger sensor vs a smaller sensor.  IMO larger sensors and smaller sensors have relatively the same amount of "sensor travel" ability because the body size has nothing to do with the image circle. MFT sensors like the GH5 have an MFT image circle which will limit the sensor's travel just like the larger sensors.

Regardless of the specifics, Canon has clearly caught up and passed the competition in the IBIS department for their FF cameras. For Digital IS, I think at least for now the action cameras are still far ahead of gyro, IBIS, lens IS, and the digital IS from the other makers.

9 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Is there a shutter speed higher than 1/50 that eliminates flicker for 24p or 30p footage?  I need a solution for doing gyro stabilization indoors even if it is very run and gun with artificial, overhead lighting. 

 

I had this problem with my footage shooting runway shows where they put a digital backboard behind the models, the flicker was terrible.....I added deflicker in post using Davinci Resolve and it did a great job. The main downside that I saw was that rendering was far slower, and so was editing, so I would recommend if you want to try this then complete all of the edits to the project first, then add the deflicker effect. You might be able to add an adjustment clip and add the deflicker there to fix the whole project at once, but I did not try that.

I have used deflicker in the past for timelapses but this was the first time I needed to use it to fix regular video footage.

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the gyro only works in 4K and you have to use only panny or oly lenses.

Seems like a lot of fine print that goes along with gyro stabilization.

 

20 hours ago, markr041 said:

No, the 180 degree rule does not work "fine" with gyro stabilization, as clearly stated by both BlackMagic, GoPro, and Sony and consistent with my extensive experience with gyro stabilization for all three camera brands. Blurring wreaks havoc with gyro stabilization. If done correctly, there is no way the warp stabilizer in DaVinci Resolve does better than gyro stabilization for the same camera.

And, btw, gyro stabilization corrects rolling shutter. This is not too relevant for the R5, but it is for many cameras, including the BMPCC6K.

For those who don't appreciate what gyro stabilization does, this 4K (shot in 6K) video shows the before and after of the walking and long telephoto shots (this does not prove that gyro stabilization is better than your preferred choice, however mistaken or not, but shows what it handles).

 

Now that is impressive, seeing the before really shows how much the gyro stabilization helps; it is definitely doing more than I thought it was. It would be really cool to see a camera with gyro, IBIS, lens IS, and digital IS all enabled at the same time.

It would be nice if all cameras offered gyro stabilization, it would be one more tool in our belt for stability. I would still prefer IBIS over gyro, but it would be nice to have options like in DR where you get to pick from 3 different types of post stabilization and get to test each one to see what works best for that particular shot. 

I would imagine that Canon could implement gyro stability at least in their cameras that have the electronic level since clearly they already have a gyro on them. Not so sure about the C70 and others in the cinema line. It does seem to me that Canon is playing a lot of catch up these days.

[markr041]

20 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Now that is impressive, seeing the before really shows how much the gyro stabilization helps; it is definitely doing more than I thought it was. It would be really cool to see a camera with gyro, IBIS, lens IS, and digital IS all enabled at the same time.

 

No, you cannot simultaneously use IBIS and lens OIS and employ gyro stabilization in post. This is because gyro stabilization reacts solely to camera movement. It cannot know how the lens is adjusting (OIS) or the sensor (IBIS) is adjusting to movement They cannot be coordinated as implemented now. In both Catalyst Browse and DaVinci Resolve, you simply cannot stabilize with gyro if the lens OIS or IBIS is on. The software will not even let you try.

[gt3rs]

17 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I would imagine that Canon could implement gyro stability at least in their cameras that have the electronic level since clearly they already have a gyro on them. Not so sure about the C70 and others in the cinema line. It does seem to me that Canon is playing a lot of catch up these days.

My understanding is that EIS is exactly what catalyst, davinci etc do but in camera, all use gyros data plus lens plus tracking algorithms. Is even documented that Canon EIS uses Gyro: "The EOS C500 Mark II is the first Canon Cinema EOS camera to feature built-in five-axis electronic IS"

Action cameras do the same too just they tend to use a really high shutter speed and a really wide-angle lens on a small sensor making things easier. 

I would prefer to be able to use EIS in post as some time is good and some time is not. Insta allow you this and I find it much better than Gopro. People mount gopro on car rollcage with EIS enabled and is just horrible. If you do in post you can always choose what is best. The advantage in camer is that it can coordinate with OIS and IBIS.

[Video Hummus]

I have the R5C and the R5 and I prefer the R5C setup over the always on IBIS in the R5 for video. At least with the RF 24-70 the OIS + EIS combo has worked amazingly well for hand held static and controlled handheld pans and tilts in my experience.

IBIS wobble is horrible. I come to really notice it and hate it.