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Leica S medium format camera to feature 4K video


Andrew Reid

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"Already I am hearing reports that the rolling shutter on the A7S is really quite bad.

With such large sensors it is very difficult to get a fast readout.

That is the advantage of having a smaller sensor closer to the cinema standard of Super 35mm, for example in the GH4."

 

can someone explain why a larger sensor should take longer to read out? It´s not that electricity covers distance by travelling... and this certain sensor only has 12 megapixels...

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Andrew  gives me a strong impression that he just want to push people to just get the gh4. His comments  always gives the vibe of  "as compared to the gh4". The thing is that the gh4 just doesnt work for everyone. Yes it is awesome, yes is amazingly priced, yes it gives amazing images.. etc.  but the problem is people have heavly invested on the canon lenses and some people dont want to sell their canon lenses to buy m43 lenses because m43 are less of a standard in case you want to upgrade later on. I could use my canon lenses on almost any camera but with m43 we simply cant. And yes the speedbooster exsist but we dont want to run through adapters and other quirky work arounds. There are just many things like this one i pointed out that are just too many problems...The thing is that i just want people to realize is that the gh4 is not perfect and you shouldnt just jump ship because of the hipe... and i know andrew is not puting a gun on anyones head to buy any one camera, hes just giving his opinion which is very valuable, I just feel like these articles are not as objective as they could be because of the hype. Just my two cents. 

 

This comment put me in a bad mood so the reply is going to be pretty harsh I'm afraid.

 

You are not offending me so much as offending logic itself.

 

"Compared to the GH4" - fact is that since the GH2, this series of cameras has been THE benchmark for performance and all-round features for 90% of my readership, at the affordable price level. It is and continues to be the benchmark I compare stuff to. In the case of the medium format stuff, even though they are completely different price points, you'd still want to know if the video feature set lived up to the benchmark, wouldn't you? Or perhaps I should start comparing everything to the 1D C instead? A camera only a few people can afford and one that doesn't even feature 1/5th of the stuff that the GH4 does. Not even peaking.

 

Not a very good benchmark is it?

 

For 4K the GH4 is the current most promising solution. Everything else either has an extremely high price tag (1D C) or a potential deal breaker (A7S rolling shutter and no internal codec). Also I write EOSHD from my own perspective, it is a mixture of subjectiveness and objectivness. You have to be really thick not to be able to tell them apart. Thick people come to me all the time and say "hey andrew, stop stating your opinion as fact". I say to them... "hey learn to fucking read".

 

And if you have a lot of Canon lenses and want a 4K solution, you know what to do. 1D C or C500. Get your wallet out and good luck!

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I thought this would be an article on the 4K capabilities of the Leica S.....

 

No it's a news article.

 

The 4K capabilities of the Leica S are completely unknown at this moment. You're expecting me to write about something which is a complete unknown. Where's the logic in this?

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I would agree with you canon has failed to innovate.. and it bothers me a lot. However I wouldnt call the  "C" cameras a failure they are many advantages to them and a lot of people swear by them..In all honesty i think they are great cameras just overpriced. I think you also seemed to dismiss what i said about running my lenses through adapters.. i just dont want to do that. At some point 5d type cam will shoot 4k the a7s almost had me if it would have shot 4k...so this doesnt it mean it cant happen, lets not forget that the 1dc was the first dslr to shoot 4k and you cant deny the footage is beautiful but it is deff overpriced.. with that said I think these cameras are great in terms of pushing the markets. It will push canon to come along and do their game, i guess they are just not ready for it right now and thats a shame, they could have owned the market. I think my main message is dont get caught up on these cameras hype right now and sell all your current lenses for m43 lenses.. I think you will kick yourself later on if canon or sony comes around another camera that isnt m43 that shoots 4k and it is affordable. I dont know if you noticed or not but theres even rumors that this is the last m43 cam from panasonic.. so yeah.   

 

Stop comparing everything to Canon.

 

"Rumours that the GH4 is the last m43 cam from Panasonic". This is manna from heaven for Canon fans like yourself and non-Panasonic people, who have zero answer to video on the GH4. Nikon loved this rumour. People who want Panasonic to fail got a real kick of out this. This thing I have seen swirl around the internet for days like there is substance to it. Actually it was a shitty april fools joke at 43rumors and Personal-View (Vitaliy Kiselev), one that is actually damaging the business. Panasonic's people, some of them anyway, are angst at it. Even though it was a joke it harms the brand to put negative bullshit out there into the rumour mill and as we now see, trolls and possibly even Canon affiliates or sales people keep the whispering going on forums, because it is in their interest to harm the GH4 and the Micro Four Thirds brand as it is a rival system.

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Stop comparing everything to Canon.

 

"Rumours that the GH4 is the last m43 cam from Panasonic". This is manna from heaven for Canon fans like yourself and non-Panasonic people, who have zero answer to video on the GH4. Nikon loved this rumour. People who want Panasonic to fail got a real kick of out this. This thing I have seen swirl around the internet for days like there is substance to it. Actually it was a shitty april fools joke at 43rumors and Personal-View (Vitaliy Kiselev), one that is actually damaging the business. Panasonic's people, some of them anyway, are angst at it. Even though it was a joke it harms the brand to put negative bullshit out there into the rumour mill and as we now see, trolls and possibly even Canon affiliates or sales people keep the whispering going on forums, because it is in their interest to harm the GH4 and the Micro Four Thirds brand as it is a rival system.

Wow! this was a light hearted thing... Dont need to get all harsh about it.  Did you read this: "I know andrew is not putting a gun on anyones head to buy any one camera, hes just giving his opinion which is very valuable"? I know your posts are a mix of subjective and objective, its your opinion on the matter, which I mentioned as "very valuable". As far as me being a canon fan, really? if you look our twitter interactions between you and me you can see that I've probably have made more fun of canon as much if not more as the next guy... so please. All im trying to say with my comments, (which could have come out "the wrong way" I guess) is that I feel like people are getting caught up on the "hype" and going nuts selling their stuff because this one new camera.. others will come and you know this. I dont really care if you sell all your L lenses and canon bodies  to buy pinhole cameras.. All I'm trying to advocate is for people not to get caught up in the hype. Finally I apologize if I offended you in any way, I'm obviously commenting here because I appreciate your comments on this whole industry, don't forget about that.

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When did I specifically pointed out your "positive evaluation" as "hype"? theres a lot of press about this camera out there and thats what i mean by "hype" not your comments. As you pointed out, most of your readers here are usually lower budget, therefore I made what you called "warnings". I said this because some of us can't afford to be switching lenses and bodies all the time, because we usually lose money, time, and energy doing swaps. So we need to be more careful when we make our choices. I also, still don't understand why you are being kind harsh towards me specially since I've apologize to you.. is it not ok to express my opinion here? I don't meant to offend anyone really, specially you. 

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When did I specifically pointed out your "positive evaluation" as "hype"? theres a lot of press about this camera out there and thats what i mean by "hype" not your comments. As you pointed out, most of your readers here are usually lower budget, therefore I made what you called "warnings". I said this because some of us can't afford to be switching lenses and bodies all the time, because we usually lose money, time, and energy doing swaps. So we need to be more careful when we make our choices. I also, still don't understand why you are being kind harsh towards me specially since I've apologize to you.. is not ok to express my opinion here? I don't meant to offend anyone really, specially you. 

the admin is mad cuse hes a fanboy :P

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"Already I am hearing reports that the rolling shutter on the A7S is really quite bad"

 

Source? I believe we are all very curious about rolling shutter skew in this camera compared to the known Canikons... 

He does not know.

He is just trying to give credit to his educated guess (very likely right guess though).

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A medium format lens on a 35mm sensor does not give the medium format look.

It will still look as 35mm.

 

Eventually it may give the rendering typical of the brand of lens you are using, which will be less boring than any canon look,  but that is still ar from the look of the MF.

You do not get the typical MF look even on an Hasselblad or Phase system if you do not use some of the 50 or + megapixel backs, which have a  quasi 645 sensor size. The rest of the bunch is just in between MF and 35mm. And precisely this new Sony sensor is of the smallish kind, which is just a bit larger than a 35mm sensor.

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When did I specifically pointed out your "positive evaluation" as "hype"? theres a lot of press about this camera out there and thats what i mean by "hype" not your comments. 

 

I think the most part of the positive press we are reading around are sincere and not "hype". Most of us canon lenses owners are a bit scared of the incoming change. I tell you that: the only way we can save our beloved lenses is if Canon wakes up with something very new and very well priced.

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(...)

 

And if you have a lot of Canon lenses and want a 4K solution, you know what to do. 1D C or C500. Get your wallet out and good luck!

 

Well, he has another one plain easy and available straight away: $2,995 BMPC 4K... (E :-)

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He does not know.

He is just trying to give credit to his educated guess (very likely right guess though).

Well, when I asked for a source I wasn't even remotely trying to imply that. I simply imagined that Andrew maybe knew quite a few NAB attendees worhty of his trust and that one of them had had a chance to hold/play a little with the camera...

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Well , sounds like so much fuss, but let's get back on track. now that pentax announced their 645Z, we can somewhat made an educated guess. Pentax only offer 1920X1080 HD at 30P ( you can do 60i though ) and 60P only at 1280. However the sensor is an 8K affair ( Pentax spec say 8256X6192 ) And somewhat vaguely Pentax refer to 4K as optional external ( no reference to how its implemented ) so at best it would seems like ( just ) streaming off the HDMI. There is also no mention of what the 4K spec are , but judging from the fact that the camera can only do 30P 1920. One must question whether the signaling and buffering are up for it or might be Pentax just do not bother with a proper Video circuitry. Anyway it would seem the sensor is capable of readout to 60P but at what kind of output resolution and bit rate, not to mention the specifics .. are all unknown.

 

And since its pretty much open secret that the sensor is from Sony and would also be used by Leica. I guess we can assume similar limitation and/or potential.

 

For a start it would made a very nice 8k with only minimal crop as it would have just the right amount of photosite for that. so effectively 4K could easily be using soft ( or might be hardware ) binning. Doing that 1920 on such a large sensor ( with that many photosite ) must be a chore. No matter how its done. If the sensor allow RAW readout at full 8K ( or 4K ) with enough of a bitrate and good color depth ( sort of like GH4's 8bit 4:2:2 down & over sampled to 10bit 4:4:4 2K ) it could very well open up some possibility

 

Traditionally we have no popular cine format that's akin to this sensor's size. But I see it more as a 4K FF ( 35mm ) sensor simply enlarged ( its only really 44X33 which is horizontally speaking only 21%+ ). with that much real estate I really think they should just forget the 2K , and instead give full 8K RAW readout and binned 4K. 

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