kye Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Does anyone know how to effectively rig up a smaller camera with a top handle, but also still keep a small monitor and shotgun mic also rigged up at the same time? And not have it become ridiculously large, and/or get handling noise on the microphone (from mounting it too close to the top handle). I've only seen effective rigs like this on larger cine cameras where there's more real-estate to play with. The only configurations I can come up with require two hands because they're not top-handle centric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 16, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 16, 2020 Is this for you BMMCC or GH5 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohn Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 There's a big collection of rigs for the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera here, some of which might give you some ideas for whatever camera you're trying to rig. The BMMCC has a fan, so I never mount a microphone to it (even a shotgun picks up some of that fan noise in a quiet room), but clearly some people do; the fan is probably less audible outside. https://bmmccrigs.tumblr.com/ kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, kye said: Does anyone know how to effectively rig up a smaller camera with a top handle, but also still keep a small monitor and shotgun mic also rigged up at the same time? Get a looong top handle, and side mount the shotgun (something like the Deity V-Mic D3 Pro, right?) so that you can still tilt the monitor forward. 1 hour ago, kye said: And not have it become ridiculously large, and/or get handling noise on the microphone (from mounting it too close to the top handle). Make sure the mic has a decent shockmount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Is this for you BMMCC or GH5 ? BMMCC. I bought a cage for it, and it was a good deal to get top handle, which I thought would be good considering it has no IBIS, so I got that too, but couldn't work out how to rig it up! 9 hours ago, bjohn said: There's a big collection of rigs for the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera here, some of which might give you some ideas for whatever camera you're trying to rig. The BMMCC has a fan, so I never mount a microphone to it (even a shotgun picks up some of that fan noise in a quiet room), but clearly some people do; the fan is probably less audible outside. https://bmmccrigs.tumblr.com/ Awesome.... Hey - I see a photo I took in there! Cool 🙂 Obviously, this is the one I'm looking for: It was so obvious the whole time! 8 hours ago, IronFilm said: Get a looong top handle, and side mount the shotgun (something like the Deity V-Mic D3 Pro, right?) so that you can still tilt the monitor forward. Make sure the mic has a decent shockmount. Rode Video Mic Pro+, which has a reasonable shock-mount on it, but I don't want to bump it if I'm doing any more vigorous camera moves (which is what a top-handle is good for). I also don't want to have things too far forwards, as they'll get in the frame with a wide lens. I think the 7.5mm Laowa would be a great fit for it as it's got a horizontal FOV equivalent to a 22mm lens, and can focus quite close, so would be fun in a wider aspect ratio. I don't understand why people rig the top handle at the back like this: It means that all the weight of the rig is further forwards, so you're straining to hold it one handed, unless you're aiming at the ground that is. There are some cool ideas in there though: mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohn Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 hours ago, kye said: Hey - I see a photo I took in there! Cool Me too; this one's my rig: https://bmmccrigs.tumblr.com/image/190190620501 I have a top handle but never use it as I have a glidecam; I've never been able to get smooth handheld shots with the Micro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, bjohn said: Me too; this one's my rig: https://bmmccrigs.tumblr.com/image/190190620501 I have a top handle but never use it as I have a glidecam; I've never been able to get smooth handheld shots with the Micro. Cool rig - looks basically like a full-size cine camera just scaled down! Do you think that the challenge to getting smooth handheld shots is that it's too light? People tell me that the nice hand-held look from larger cine cameras and ENG cameras is due to them being heavy enough to stop the micro-jitters that plague smaller and lighter setups. I thought that rigging up a rig with a top handle was the same basic idea as a glidecam, being that you kind of hold the camera so it's hanging from where you're holding the handle and so the weight of it and the idea you're not gripping it hard but kind of just gently letting it hang kind of smooths out the jitters from your hand. I've never done it, but I would imagine that requires a balanced rig, technique, and enough weight in the rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohn Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, kye said: I thought that rigging up a rig with a top handle was the same basic idea as a glidecam, being that you kind of hold the camera so it's hanging from where you're holding the handle and so the weight of it and the idea you're not gripping it hard but kind of just gently letting it hang kind of smooths out the jitters from your hand. Sort of, but the glidecam actually has a mechanical gimbal. I use a much scaled-bag rig for my BMMCC when using it with the glidecam (just monitor and a wide-angle lens) and that works great. For handheld with the top handle, I weigh it down as much as possible by adding all the bells and whistles (follow focus, heavier lens, matte box, Video Assist with two batteries, etc.) and it's more stable, but still never gets quite as smooth as the glidecam. With practice I could probably make it acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, bjohn said: Sort of, but the glidecam actually has a mechanical gimbal. I use a much scaled-bag rig for my BMMCC when using it with the glidecam (just monitor and a wide-angle lens) and that works great. For handheld with the top handle, I weigh it down as much as possible by adding all the bells and whistles (follow focus, heavier lens, matte box, Video Assist with two batteries, etc.) and it's more stable, but still never gets quite as smooth as the glidecam. With practice I could probably make it acceptable. Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that a top handle would be as good as a glidecam - just that it's the same overall principle. It wouldn't be nearly as good, of course, but I've seen people being able to run and hold the rig close to the ground and get quite good results, so it should help in some ways. Makes sense to load it up when it's not on the glidecam, but when it is it's just about balancing it and then you're fine. Back when gimbals were first becoming affordable there were lots of videos from people who were comparing glide cams to gimbals and showing the benefits of the glidecam. I personally think the look of a glidecam from an experienced operator is kind of like hand-held with a cine cam - the look is human and it's stable enough but it's not too perfect like a gimbal is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 This is the best I could come up with as a handle only setup using my parts and not adding a side grip for two handed stuff, though I usually have the monitor attached to the front of the handle, a G3 wireless receiver on the back plugged into the camera, along with a grip on the right side. Its actually pretty well balanced as pictured and cables don't get in the way. A smaller mic and XLR solution like the Saramonic would make things more compact. Smallrig makes a side handle with a shoe, typically I put the audio adapter with the mic on top of it on the right side. If I weren't shooting on a gimbal all the time I'd do a setup like bjohn's and make it a little more permanent. ENG cameras used to be much larger, I shot on a Betacam with my first job, it balanced really nice on the shoulder and handheld stuff looked good because the large top handle made it easy to find that balance point, but its a different visual as you couldn't do things like simulated jib shots or shoot at waist level as easily because it was a little unwieldily - basically it was on the sticks, the shoulder or around the knees, other stuff required some contortionist stuff to get into position. That's a main achilles heel of small or mirrorless cameras if you need audio and onboard monitoring, once you add a monitor and XLR audio you start to get a little franken-rig thing going. Chris kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 Played around and got this configuration which seems to meet all the criteria... It's a bit top heavy, but it's balanced (it literally stands up on the QR plate when placed on a flat surface). You can get to the handle, at least from the left, without touching anything but the handle, and the big hole in the vertical support even lines up very nicely with the coiled cable for the mic making a convenient cable tidy! It's not exactly compact or elegant though! Trek of Joy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohn Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Looks good. I'll be curious to see if the fan noise from the Micro is a problem in your audio recordings. Even with my Sennheiser 8060 shotgun I could hear the fan if I had the mic on camera or anywhere near it, at least if I was in a reverberant room (wooden floors). Of course if you record 10-15 seconds of room tone at the beginning you can eliminate the fan sound with Izotope RX, Acon Acoustica, or any other good audio noise reduction program. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 I don't have any real shoots planned for this setup, but was just part of getting to know the camera and prepared in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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