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camera buying dilemma


Finn Schäuble

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Hi there.

 

I am a Media Engineering student and I am now part time working at a small production company, doing almost everything (Cutting, Grading, filming, sound...) .  And I am allowed to use their FS700 for my personal projects (which I have LOTS of) They also have a NEX-EF Speedbooster .

 

in the last couple years, I invested heavily in Canon Glas, since I am a photographer at heart ;)  and I also have a HUGE collection of Konica/AR mount Glas (I mean, HUGE!!)  Which I got as a present a couple years back. 

 

So.. I made the mistake of buying a Panasonic G6 , Great camera, awesome in Video mode, resolution like no other "Dslr" i have ever seen(personally...) But the 2x Crop is killing my otherwise awseome hexanon Lenses.

 

  BUT, I now have this Speedbooster, so I decided to switch to SONY Nex.  I can use my Konica Glas(no speedbooster.. sadly) as well as all the Canon Glas I have (All great L lenses)  .

 

So here is my question, which is the best sony NEX for video? I can not find any tests on the NEX6.. 

 

I Do not care at all about photo mode, lowlight is a Plus but not as important as resolution, and it needs to stand up to quiet brutal Grading in post.  We are going to use this camera as a B camera for the Fs700 replacing the 550D .    I wont be able to buy the new A7/r  so only NEX APs-c options.

 

Thanks for helping me here, I kinda got lost reading a million reviews and I do not really get all the NEx 5/N/R/T differences when it comes to video. 

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You could get a Speedbooster for Micro Four Thirds, turning the G6  into APSC size. Though that might not help with Konica AR glass ( not that I know about it)

 

other than that NEX 5n is now very cheap and good

 

It won't stand up to brutal grading any more than the FS700 does, but it's about the same, give or take. Not quite as well implemented AVCHD. 

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You could get a Speedbooster for Micro Four Thirds, turning the G6  into APSC size. Though that might not help with Konica AR glass ( not that I know about it)

 

other than that NEX 5n is now very cheap and good

 

It won't stand up to brutal grading any more than the FS700 does, but it's about the same, give or take. Not quite as well implemented AVCHD. 

Well since I already have the EF-NEX speedbooster, I wont really want to buy  the non existing  EF-MFT adapter.

 

Why would I choose the old NEX5N over the NEX5R? 

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You should also keep a lookout for a cheap 50D and run Magic Lantern RAW on it.  I've owned a Nex 5N and 7, both great cameras, but in the end, to me, H.264 is pretty much the same for all these cameras.  There's only so much you can do with 3-6MBS bandwidth.  Another camera to consider is the EOS-M, which I've worked a bit with.  Here's a RAW shooters guide  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8825.msg82944#msg82944

 

If you have any Canon glass below 20mm, you can get, in my opinion, awesome high-dynamic range 720p out of the camera.  No internal audio.  ML is in alpha, and though buggy, if you stick to using one card for RAW, is very reliable.  

 

On the NEX's, the 7 had higher res, but I couldn't see any difference, which makes sense, because you're taking such a small part of the image.  Some things about Sony are irritating, but overall, I have to say they exhibit a greater love of consumer imaging equipment than the other manufacturers.  

 

On the full-frame question, I don't get that.  You can can get shallow DOF using say a c-mount TV lens ($30) and if you don't mind the edges softness, I think, create very stunning images.

 

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in my opinion try to get a black magic cinema camera. :)

 

the only huge cons that I see is the crop factor, for many owners of canons lens should mean that they have no much useful lenses. you should need very short focal lens to work with that camera in little spaces.

 

if you want to get it try to test it does not suffer for white orbs. and black holes. I'm not sure they can fix it with firmware update, someone can tell you better.

 

p.s. BM pocket cinema camera, and standard BM cinema camera have different crop factor if I din't misunderstanding. 

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its really quit funny what some people are recommending here...  like buying a 50D and hacking it for RAW, you can not be serious.  I totally want huge files that are a pain in the ass in Post, shot on a camera that has no way of recording audio, its just not practical from a professional prospective, and yes I already have 2 5D3(why else would I have a huge collection of canon Glas) , which are crap for video (compared to the Fs700 at least) .

 

The BMPCC is a toy, in the field you never want to record in Prores, leave alone 12bit RAW.  (when doing Documentary/TV work).  

 

The last documentary we shot on 2 cameras (FS700 and 550D)  left us with ruffly 360Gb of footage. imagine this in RAW or ProRes, Storage is still too expensive for those kinds of work.   (Not only do I need to backup 2x in the Field but also copy everything to the workstations RAID and then Backup on Tape) 

 

 

 

My real question was:  is the 5R/6/7 better than the 5N when it comes to video.  if yes, Why?    I only want this camera because of the speedbooster and E-Mount so that we can, in the field swap lenses quickly and effective with the Fs700 .

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in my opinion try to get a black magic cinema camera. :)

 

the only huge cons that I see is the crop factor, for many owners of canons lens should mean that they have no much useful lenses. you should need very short focal lens to work with that camera in little spaces.

 

if you want to get it try to test it does not suffer for white orbs. and black holes. I'm not sure they can fix it with firmware update, someone can tell you better.

 

p.s. BM pocket cinema camera, and standard BM cinema camera have different crop factor if I din't misunderstanding. 

 

 

Well none of those cameras has E-Mount, so my speedbooster will not work... 

 

I bought a BMCC and sold it, not useful for my work at all. 

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its really quit funny what some people are recommending here...  like buying a 50D and hacking it for RAW, you can not be serious. 

 

You asked for opinions but sound like someone who already knows.  You say you are a photographer at heart.  Most photographers I know want RAW, as RAW as they can get.  Naturally, you can't shoot hours of documentary interviews in RAW, but you weren't clear about what you're looking for.  Everyone was polite about that.

 

But since you think I, at least, read your mind, then no, I can't read your mind.  Exactly what do you want to use the camera for?  What things would make a difference between the cameras you mentioned?  They're all basically the same thing.  Get the cheapest.  

 

And when you say, "I bought a BMCC and sold it, not useful for my work at all."  Why?  Other people have that camera here.  Maybe you know something that would be helpful to them.

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its really quit funny what some people are recommending here...  like buying a 50D and hacking it for RAW, you can not be serious.  I totally want huge files that are a pain in the ass in Post, shot on a camera that has no way of recording audio, its just not practical from a professional prospective, and yes I already have 2 5D3(why else would I have a huge collection of canon Glas) , which are crap for video (compared to the Fs700 at least) .

 

Weird, I've always thought the fs700 was the worst price/image deal ever. It can do super-slowmo, great,  but beyond that it image isn't noticeably better than the fs100.

 

I'm still confused about why you wan't a NEX? You want to spend money on something that will give you a worse image than systems you already have (5Ds), just because you have other glass sitting around? What am I missing?

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and yes I already have 2 5D3(why else would I have a huge collection of canon Glas) , which are crap for video (compared to the Fs700 at least) .

Here's a suggestion & its a cheap one.

You've got 2 5D3s & a collection of Canon L glass, yes?

Install a stable version of Magic Lantern for the 5D3 - NO, you're not going to use RAW!

In the Movie menu, at the top, there's this setting that will increase the Bit Rate of the H264 video.

Now because the 5D3 will accept fast CF cards, you should be able to increase the recorded Bit Rate & record sound (you'll have to experiment how far you can push the Bit Rate, but anything over 2 will be good - 3 would be great!).

If you use a good PS (VisionColor is v.good), this increase in Bit Rate will give you a lot more room to CC & even sharpen your footage in post.

 

Quite frankly, that's the only/best solution for you - a Nex isn't going to be better than a 5D3, not today, tomorrow, never.

Furthermore, for any detailed GVs that you might need, which don't need sound, you could use a short burst of RAW.

 

Other than that, I just don't see what your dilemma is - you've got 2 5D3s, use them Goddamit!

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Well none of those cameras has E-Mount, so my speedbooster will not work... 

 

I bought a BMCC and sold it, not useful for my work at all. 

sorry Finn but I do not understand what do you mean for E mount. did you mean "canon mount"? because black magic sell two different versions of BMCC, the one should be micro 4/3 and the second is canon mount, so you can mount canon lenses without problems on that model. 

In my opinion your point of view about shooting in raw documentaries is really true. but I have an Idea, for example I wish to shoot a documentary in H264 (I have a 7D) and then shoot some B-Roll in RAW! :) hybrid footage. :) also b-roll (secondary footage) may not need for external microphones! :) 

maybe the only accuracy should be to shoot h264 and RAW at the same amount of frames for second. 

I know that DSLR shoot in 23,967 fps which is not really 24. so (if possible) RAW should be at the same speed (I believe we can choose which setting).

another think could be this. when shooting in h264 try to take a picture in raw and then in post production try to match the color of the raw picture. somewhere I saw a video that used a similar technique. this technique plus true b.roll RAW could be cool. I'll try to test it soon! :)

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@Finn Schäuble, no need to be rude to people who try to be helpful.

 

Nobody here can read your mind, although the thought seems appaling. If you are all on the nex route, then instead of being impolite rather be "not lazy" and read the forums which compare your sony cameras. if you ask for opinions you get them served as they are.

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The 5DmkIII without RAW has better video than any sony with interchangable lenses, throw in RAW and you have a camera that is better than anything in the affordable range. The g6 is also better than any sony, maybe the rx10 changes that a bit but you want to use glass on it.

 

Btw, acting as a pro but wanting to use shitty codec on a nex, klugscheisser.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's a suggestion & its a cheap one.

Install a stable version of Magic Lantern for the 5D3 - NO, you're not going to use RAW!

In the Movie menu, at the top, there's this setting that will increase the Bit Rate of the H264 video.

Now because the 5D3 will accept fast CF cards, you should be able to increase the recorded Bit Rate & record sound (you'll have to experiment how far you can push the Bit Rate, but anything over 2 will be good - 3 would be great!).

If you use a good PS (VisionColor is v.good), this increase in Bit Rate will give you a lot more room to CC & even sharpen your footage in post.

 

Hi,  thanks for the info.

 

this is of interest to me also as syncing audio on long shoots with relatively low budgets for post work is an issue for RAW. I was wondering if there were any other features in ML that could be used while just recording at H264 to improve visual quality - such as dual iso for better DR.

 

jeremy

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My real question was:  is the 5R/6/7 better than the 5N when it comes to video.  if yes, Why?    I only want this camera because of the speedbooster and E-Mount so that we can, in the field swap lenses quickly and effective with the Fs700 .

 

Nex-5N is supposed to have least moire and aliasing of these.

 

I got the Nex-5R with Nex to Nikon G Speedbooster. Beware of shooting in cities with such a camera. The moire can be horrible when it appears! I got my Nex-5R to use as a very portable allround camera for stills and video, in addition to the 1080p50 mode for slow motion. I got the Nex-5R due to the price - and because I read that some of the overheating issues of the Nex-5N were improved in the 5R.

 

I found out that the 1080p50 slo-mo mode isn't too good - I can as well use the 720p50 mode on my D800 instead, and the image quality will probably be as good as the 1080p50 from the Nex. As a very portable full frame camera with speed booster it is nice though. A lot of the shots you wouldn't dream about doing with a large dslr is easily done with a Nex (Hard to access locations, placing the camera creatively..). So, as a B camera that might be handy.

 

Replacing a 550D with a Nex is probably alright quality-wise.

However, the difference between 1080p video from my Nikon D800 and Nex-5R (with or without speedbooster) is night and day although both use roughly as compressed formats. Somehow D800 saves all the details while the Nex compressed video just look wrong in comparison.

With the Nex-5R I'd therefore recommend gathering as much as possible of the look while shooting, since it won't hold up too nicely for post.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

If you truly find the 5d3s are ''crap'' for video, I wouldn't recommend NEXs for you. And certainly can't understand how you used a 550d as a B-cam for an fs700.

A 5d mk III is better in everyway than any Sony NEX . And in your case, having a punch of L lenses, you'll be able to use them natively.

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