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Panasonic S1H review / hands-on - a true 6K full frame cinema camera

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Premiere messes up with 10 bit footage of any kind?

Since always, it basically converts to 8 bit which causes many artifacts.
Resolve doesn't do that as it works in 32 bit accuracy.

 

Cinema5D stopped using it for that reason in 2017.

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1 hour ago, deezid said:

Since always, it basically converts to 8 bit which causes many artifacts.
Resolve doesn't do that as it works in 32 bit accuracy.

 

Cinema5D stopped using it for that reason in 2017.

Dammit I’ve been out of the loop. How haven’t they corrected such a big issue in two years 

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3 hours ago, deezid said:

Since always, it basically converts to 8 bit which causes many artifacts.
Resolve doesn't do that as it works in 32 bit accuracy.

 

Cinema5D stopped using it for that reason in 2017.

Where did u read this up if u dont mind asking interesting? 

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Premiere *does* offer 32-bit internal processing, with the exception of some fx, which could still be 8-bit (32-bit fx are labelled as such).

Basic color correction should all be 32-bit Lumetri.  What's the source of this claim that " it basically converts to 8 bit which causes many artifacts"?

https://mixinglight.com/color-tutorial/demystifying-premiere-pros-color-management-and-finishing-pipeline/

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Just now, helium said:

Premiere *does* offer 32-bit internal processing, with the exception of some fx, which could still be 8-bit (32-bit fx are labelled as such).

Basic color correction should all be 32-bit Lumetri.  What's the source of this claim that " it basically converts to 8 bit which causes many artifacts"?

https://mixinglight.com/color-tutorial/demystifying-premiere-pros-color-management-and-finishing-pipeline/

Nice, but still Premiere's timeline is 8 bit and just decoding of GH5 and S1H 10 bit files makes them look like trash and even the Max Bitdepth setting in sequence settings doesn't help (anymore?). Just tried it out.


Not a camera issue since the footage looks perfectly fine in Resolve. 
Guess which still has been made with which program ;)
 

1.3.1_1.3.1.jpg

P1000305.00_00_13_12.Still001.jpg

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Without knowing your exact workflow, it's impossible to draw any conclusions from those examples.

Again, what's the source of this claim that Premiere timelines(??) are 8-bit, which amounts to to saying that Premiere Lumetri is 8 bit....

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In Premiere
Add footage
Add Lut and curve
Footage breaks apart.
Set Sequence Settings... to Max Bitdepth, no change

Do the same in Resolve
Footage looks amazing.

Has been that way forerver and has never been fixed by Adobe although many are complaining such as Cinema5D.

Here's a video showcasing the problem
(download and playback using MPV, DNXHR 10 bit codec)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x2odKIubw9K7yvTa1hIy_Op-iQz4AXrJ/view?usp=sharing

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I haven't examined the video, but one glaring uncontrolled factor above is the LUT, and where in the chain it's being applied in Premiere.  As far as I know -- it's been a long time since I worked in Premiere -- there's no way to apply a potentially destructive normalizing LUT without actual destruction.  This is obviously not the case with Resolve, with its sequential nodes and/or Color Management.

For the extent of the claims you're making, effectively calling Adobe a liar, I think you want to eliminate that LUT variable.

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It's not the lut, it's the processing and decoding in premiere. It has been trash and still is.

Even with nothing applied the artifacts are visible. Had to deal with that issue way too many times as a colorist receiving footage to grade from clients. Only way out is: XML and original source footage.

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I think you @deezid should link to support your claim that Cinema5D identified the same problem as you.  All I can see is stuff about how native 10-bit GH5 files were not supported on release, nothing about the general processing environment.

Unless there's been a wider discussion of this, then there's not much to support your claim except your say so.  In which case you should elaborate on your workflow and methodology (perhaps in another thread as it's a bit of a derail).

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5 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

I think you @deezid should link to support your claim that Cinema5D identified the same problem as you.  All I can see is stuff about how native 10-bit GH5 files were not supported on release, nothing about the general processing environment.

Unless there's been a wider discussion of this, then there's not much to support your claim except your say so.  In which case you should elaborate on your workflow and methodology (perhaps in another thread as it's a bit of a derail).

Workflow Premiere

  • Put GH5/S1H footage into Premiere
  • Apply curve or lut or whatever you like in Lumetri

footage breaks apart, macro blocking and banding


Workflow Resolve

  • Put GH5/S1H footage into Resolve
  • Apply curve or lut or whatever you like

footage looks fantastic

  • Apply even more corrections

footage still looks fantastic

 

All the complaints that have been made about the GH5 or S1H having banding issues were made by Premiere users like Wolfcrow or Cinema5D in the past. It is not a camera issue. Panasonic (and Fuji, Z-Cam and probably others using H264 and H265 in 10 bit) really should start putting out warnings about Premiere.

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Just now, thebrothersthre3 said:

Would be pretty easy for any given person to prove as long as you have premiere. Just download the free copy of davinci and compare. 

Free version doesn't decode 10 bit H264/H265 footage.
Here's a screenshot with some extreme "corrections".
It looks even worse in motion.

5.1.2_5.1.2.png

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7 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

In the free version of Davinci if you convert H264/5 to Prores is it fine?

Depends on the decoder/encoder used to convert it to ProRes.
If you use Media Encoder from Adobe you'll run into the same issues.

Already tried converting to ProRes using ME and Max Bitdepth. Same issues. 

 

You can use Xmedia Recode to convert to ProRes
https://www.xmedia-recode.de/download.php

Quality is virtually identical to the internal decoders in Resolve. 
Set output to Quicktime MOV
Codec to Apple ProRes
Profile: ProRes 422 HQ
 
Audio to copy

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9 hours ago, deezid said:

Free version doesn't decode 10 bit H264/H265 footage.
Here's a screenshot with some extreme "corrections".
It looks even worse in motion.

5.1.2_5.1.2.png

It looks like the premiere version has a much harsher correction though? The corrections should be identical, otherwise its hard to draw conclusions. 

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3 hours ago, Jonathan Bergqvist said:

It looks like the premiere version has a much harsher correction though? The corrections should be identical, otherwise its hard to draw conclusions. 

It's basically the same, used the same adjustment layer. You can clearly see the artifacts around the "gradients" though which don't appear in Resolve

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14 hours ago, deezid said:

Workflow Premiere

  • Put GH5/S1H footage into Premiere
  • Apply curve or lut or whatever you like in Lumetri

footage breaks apart, macro blocking and banding


Workflow Resolve

  • Put GH5/S1H footage into Resolve
  • Apply curve or lut or whatever you like

footage looks fantastic

  • Apply even more corrections

footage still looks fantastic

 

All the complaints that have been made about the GH5 or S1H having banding issues were made by Premiere users like Wolfcrow or Cinema5D in the past. It is not a camera issue. Panasonic (and Fuji, Z-Cam and probably others using H264 and H265 in 10 bit) really should start putting out warnings about Premiere.

I appreciate the additional detail.  Do you have any links for the Cinema5D claims?  I couldn't find anything myself.

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2 hours ago, deezid said:

It's basically the same, used the same adjustment layer. You can clearly see the artifacts around the "gradients" though which don't appear in Resolve

Just fooling around with the picture (that I understand is in 8bit on the web),  maybe the same blockiness is in there  if the more extreme contrast is applied in resolve. You can see in your example that the dust/whatever it is on the right is much more contrasty in your premiere example than resolve, so obviously the premiere example is more contrasty (which will make the image brake up more than resolve's)...

I just think these kind of allogations that premiere can't handle 10 bit should be investigated further and tested correctly if we should draw conclusions. Just my 5.. 

 

 

testing.png

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